Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
or in excess of

Single Farm Payment

Recommended Posts

I`m thinking of buying a chicken and calling my house a farm.Then, i can forget having to work for the rest of my life.All that will be asked of me is that i "look after any countryside" in the vicinity.How come? Well, its all thanks to the Single Farm Payment.Anyone can claim it,if they have a farm.Even farms used as B&b`s qualify.In fact ,you don`t even have to have any livestock.Just think,lying in bed til midday,get up and check all the hedgerows are still intact and "hey presto",a big,fat juicy cheque arrives.Down here in the south west,we have recently seen armies of cash rich Londoners buying up vast tracts of Devon and Cornwall in order to benefit from this giveaway.It really is a disgrace that should be questioned by our media.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a look for the prices of farms, but couldn't find any. Apart from an award winning organic milk farm, which didn't list its profit.

But I did find this garden plant shop for sale in Derby.

http://uk.businessesforsale.com/uk/Retail-...s-For-Sale.aspx

Here are the owner's reasons for selling:

Reasons for selling: The owner wishes to persure (sic) other interests.

Here are the owner's opinion on the possibility of expansion:

Expansion potential: The owner remains very optimistic for the future. The buoyant new housing market ensures the prospects are better than they have been for several years, coupled with the current fashion of garden landscaping and makeovers, this provides the business with an exciting future.

I wonder if anyone else is thinking what I'm thinking.

Billy Shears

Edited by BillyShears

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a look for the prices of farms, but couldn't find any. Apart from an award winning organic milk farm, which didn't list its profit.

But I did find this garden plant shop for sale in Derby.

http://uk.businessesforsale.com/uk/Retail-...s-For-Sale.aspx

Here are the owner's reasons for selling:

Here are the owner's opinion on the possibility of expansion:

I wonder if anyone else is thinking what I'm thinking.

Billy Shears

I'll go for the organic milk thanks billy!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The alternative is to dope up the fields with nitrogen and pesticides and grow heaps of unwanted food that goes to waste, apart from turning farmers into gloried park keepers the last option is to let them live or die by the market, unfortunately the French nor the major food producers grateful of these 'externalities' will go along with this.

If you own 1/3 of a acre you pay the government, if you own 300 acres the government pays you. It pays to be rich, you pay to be poor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The alternative is to dope up the fields with nitrogen and pesticides and grow heaps of unwanted food that goes to waste, apart from turning farmers into gloried park keepers the last option is to let them live or die by the market, unfortunately the French nor the major food producers grateful of these 'externalities' will go along with this.

If you own 1/3 of a acre you pay the government, if you own 300 acres the government pays you. It pays to be rich, you pay to be poor.

If the oil is running out, isn't it time to start planting sugar beet?

Brazil is slowly becoming liquid fuel independent by growing sugar cane and fermenting it to make ethanol. Given that we keep hearing that petrol in the UK goes for about the same price as champagne in most other countries, if ethanol production make sense anywhere surely it does here. And if oil prices do drop back down again, you can quickly start makig fudge.

Billy Shears

Edited by BillyShears

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the oil is running out, isn't it time to start planting sugar beet?

Brazil is slowly becoming liquid fuel independent by growing sugar cane and fermenting it to make ethanol. Given that we keep hearing that petrol in the UK goes for about the same price as champagne in most other countries, if ethanol production make sense anywhere surely it does here. And if oil prices do drop back down again, you can quickly start makig fudge.

Billy Shears

No, the energy payback ratio is 1. it's a shit idea, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The alternative is to dope up the fields with nitrogen and pesticides and grow heaps of unwanted food

How so?.

If we produced so much food, then why are we importing the same products we could grow ourselves?.

Why do huge lorries trundle up and down the length of our Country, every day, every hour, every minute, every second, to dispatch this food, passing on their way millions of acres of land that cost the tax payer to lay barren and idle.

The simple fact is that this Government are fully signed up to commiting the UK into Europe, and the future is huge lorries travelling from the continent of Europe into the UK increasing traffic, and pollution, whilst we could grow our own foodstuff and become self suffiecient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trouble with farming in this country is that the cost of farmland is a joke. Does the Gvmnt subsidise agriculture for reasons relating to food security because it realises that farmland would just stop being farmed - as is already happening in SE England apparently - without any subsidy.

Say you get £100 profit each year when you could sell / buy this land for £5,000 plus per acre. Do the maths! The economics of farming in the UK is a joke because of the price of land - Why not go to Hungary where you pay a couple of hundred squid per acre - or somewhere else on the European mainland.

A cousin has a 200 acre farm that he could sell (just land and buildings) for around £900k. He's averaged 15k per year profit from his farm over the last 5 years. Would you bother?

On the subject of farming, was speaking to Eifion, a near neighbour, who has gone organic - he's getting much the same for his organic lamb as he did when he was selling non-organic - I wonder who's creaming off all the profits ;) (have you seen the cost of organic lamb in Tesco recently :ph34r:)

Edited by gruffydd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, the energy payback ratio is 1. it's a shit idea, sorry.

Have you been reading measurement of ethanol fuel balance based upon corn production, not sugar cane or beet? In the USA, the corn growers appear to have formed a lobby pushing the use of corn as an ethanol source. The problem is, compared to plants such as sugar beet, or in particular, sugar cane, corn is a shit raw product for ethanol production.

Furthermore, check the following article and its references. It seems that some of the calculations of ethanol energy balance, even for corn, take into account the construction of new ethanol plants, but assume that the gasoline plants already exist and hence their construction does not need to be figured into the equation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_energy_balance

Industrial and agricultural machinery doesn't have to burn fossil fuels. Because of the larger size and restricted use of these machineries, it is easier for lower quality energy sources such as (wood or coke fired) steam power, and for example in Brazil sugar can byproducts are burnt to provide energy for the ethanol production process. In fact, the burning of these produces more energy than is required in ethanol production, and the plants sell electrical energy back to the main grid.

The problem in Brazil is not energy balance, but depletion of the soil, which will have to be addressed by different means. The words "night soil" comes to mind as a partial solution.

Edit: And of course, one piece of agricultural machinery which can turn plain grass into energy is the horse.

Billy Shears

Edited by BillyShears

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree the cost of the land although expensive in farming terms, is not the problem.

The problem as you go onto detail quite rightly is that there is very little connection between what a farmer gets for his crop from the Supermarkets, and what they then sell it for.

The answer is very simple, the Farmers need to work together, open their own shops, and price the Supermarkets out of the area.

It can be done, and todays generation of shoppers have wisened up to the perils of Frozen Turkey Twizels.

Farm Shops are having a field day, more farmers need to get in on the action!!.

The Consumers are there, the Farmers need to provide the goods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're already growing biofuels on farms across the UK Billy. Elephant Grass, Oilseeds, etc.

Laurejon - nice idea - I think it'll be a long time coming - farmers in France and other European countries seem far more willing to work together - over here, everything seems to be too atomised, especially in England.

G

Edited by gruffydd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're already growing biofuels on farms across the UK Billy. Elephant Grass, Oilseeds, etc.

I think it'll be a long time coming - farmers in France and other European countries seem far more willing to work together - over here, everything seems to be too atomised, especially in England.

G

I hadn't heard of elephant grass. Looking it up, I recognise it. I grew up in a country where it was all over the place in wild areas. When the web pages say that the edges of the leaves are razor sharp, they aren't joking. When I first came here I didn't recognise nettles and walked straight through some with bare legs. But at least I didn't cut myself to shreds.

Sugar cane won't grow here, I think, and because of that something needs to replace the sugar can byproducts as biomass for the ethanol production process. Looks like elephant grass would be a prime candidate.

Billy Shears

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They're already growing biofuels on farms across the UK Billy. Elephant Grass, Oilseeds, etc.

Laurejon - nice idea - I think it'll be a long time coming - farmers in France and other European countries seem far more willing to work together - over here, everything seems to be too atomised, especially in England.

The farmers have made some big mistakes over the years, the first of which was joining the EU, they only saw the subsidies, and didnt realise that once they were in it, they would be shut down.

That said, we are an island nation, if they got together in groups they could easily see off the Supermarkets.

The supers have a vice grip at present on suppliers, and a big say on what goes into the product and how it is presented, without the burdens of having to produce.

They are effectively middlemen, and therefore they are not invisible, and the bigger they are the harder they fall.

If a single group of Farmers got together in an area around a single Tesco Store, they could easily take its business.

The supermarkets can get cheap imports, but after haulage and refrigeration costs, it works out more expensive, much more expensive and shelf life is greatly reduced unless they radiate the food, which they do at present anyway.

I am sure the time is now right for farmers to start getting together in force, not at some cr4p council run bullsh1t farmers market, but opening up a co-operative across the nation. They own the land, and I am sure the public would support their planning applications to provide a healthy alternative to feeding their children on recycled lips and ars4s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite the opposite! NuLabour don't want to build in the countryside, they want everyone to live in tiny highrise boxes on brownfield land, they want everyone crammed into cities, it makes the populace easier to control and tax, and it keeps them voting the right way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alarm at Prescott plan for 'endless suburbia'

Daily Express, 24/01/05

TWO plans to build hundreds of thousands of new homes which could see vast swathes of rural England vanish under endless suburbia will be announced today.

John Prescott will unveil a five-year plan for new housing. At the same time, a 20-year proposal to build 640,000 homes will be launched by the Southeast Regional Assembly, an unelected quango set up by the Deputy Prime Minister. Up to 250,000 of the homes could be built on greenfield sites.

Critics fears that such a massive house-building programme will place an intolerable burden on a road and rail system that is already gripped by congestion and delays.

They say the problem is that the assembly plans to concentrate growth within nine areas identified by the Government, including Milton Keynes, Ashford in Kent, the Thames Gateway and the Portsmouth-Southampton conurbation.

While every household in the region will be asked for views on the 250-page plan, the final decision will have to be approved by Mr Prescott and he has repeatedly demanded a big increase in housebuilding.

The Deputy Prime Minister is expected to throw his weight behind the most contentious option, which calls for an extra 32,000 homes every year from 2006.

This would produce a total of 640,000 new homes by 2026, 80,000 more than currently planned. The second option would be to stick with the current plans to build 28,000 new houses, roughly the amount constructed in the region last year. The final option involves 25,500 new homes a year, which is the average number of houses which have been built in the South-east over the last five years.

The proposals were greeted with alarm last night by the Campaign to Protect Rural England. Regional director Edward Dawson said: "This will have a significant and widespread impact on the environment." The Conservatives said that voters would be horrified by the scale of the proposed housebuilding. Regions spokesman Bernard Jenkin said:

"Councils have lost control of their key role in planning to the distant and unaccountable regional assemblies.

John Prescott's concreting over of our green fields is not in the interests of local people and will mean the wrong homes being built in the wrong places.

Local councillors who are accountable to the local people should be taking these decisions." But Adam Sampson, director of housing charity Shelter, said: "Britain's housing crisis is biting hard in the South-east.

"Those who argue that we should reduce the level of housing growth need to recognise the scale of the crisis in affordability and supply.

"Only a dramatic increase in the number of new social homes will help those South-east families in desperate housing need.

"All new housing must be sustainable and designed to minimise environmental impact, focusing on high-density projects in urban areas or on brown field land.

"But build we must imaginatively, sensitively, sustainably. The question is not whether we build these new homes, but when, where and how quickly." Meanwhile, the controversial centrepiece of Mr Prescott's five-year plan is likely to be a new right-to-buy scheme for 700,000 housing association tenants.

Another idea aimed at solving the first-time buyer crisis could be the building of 60,000 starter homes on cheap land which is owned by the Government.

Buyers priced out of the market would own the bricks and mortar but the freehold would be held by the Government. Mr Prescott believes such homes could be built and sold for about 60,000.

The Deputy Prime Minister will also pledge nationwide action on the problem of abandoned homes. Nine pilot projects to knock down unwanted homes in areas of low housing demand are to be extended across the whole country.

Middle-class home owners will be promised a cut in the planning red tape surrounding improvements such as extensions and conversions.

Labour's election chief, Alan Milburn, has championed the extension of the right-to-buy scheme in the face of reported opposition from Mr Prescott and Gordon Brown.

But the Treasury has now agreed to allow housing associations to borrow "off the balance sheet" to fund the cost of building replacement homes.

The Treasury decision will be seen as a significant victory for Mr Milburn, who wants Labour's election campaign to target "aspirational" voters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies for reviving this old thread, but in it we were discussing ethanol and biomass as energy sources.

This page claims that biodiesel from algae is a promising energy source for the future. Some species of algae are 50% oil. The page claims that if enough algal biodiesel was produced by farms to satisfy the USA's current energy needs, the running cost of the farms would be less than the current bill for importing fossil oil. The area required for farms would be a fraction of the land currently farmed. Algae can be grown using animal and human waste products as fertiliser. However, there are still problems to be solved to raise the efficiency of farms nearer to the theoretical maximum.

http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

Billy Shears

Edited by BillyShears

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trouble with farming in this country is that the cost of farmland is a joke. Does the Gvmnt subsidise agriculture for reasons relating to food security because it realises that farmland would just stop being farmed - as is already happening in SE England apparently - without any subsidy.

Just so you are under no illusion - there is almost no farming in South East England. At least not the bit I live in.

Nearby is a former farm which used to be a nice 'pick your own' place in the Summer. A few years ago it stopped and went under plastic. Now it is polytunnels as far as the eye can see. The lane now rumbles to the constant movement of artics arriving from all over Europe as it seems to have turned itself into a distribution centre as well.

Elsewhere, you can cycle 20 miles in all directions and all you will see are fields of grass - or the urban sprawl. A very occasional cow or two, once in a blue moon 20 sheep.

There is almost no farming here.

In Devon some years ago (whilst on holiday) I was leaning against a gate. The field beyond was covered in a crop of sweetcorn. The farmer appeared out of the field and we fell into coversation. To be honest I can't remember the numbers. I do remember that the gist of what he said was, 'I'm getting about 10% of what they'll sell in the supermarket for. Next year I am not bothering.'

He had, like every other farmer in Devon, put in for planning to convert barns into holiday cottages and was preparing to become a holiday operator instead of a farmer.

We get what we deserve I guess. Millions of people in the urban sprawl working their nuts off to put a roof over their heads and have the odd holiday in a countryside which has basically become a recreation area.

In the meantime we eat imported food produced in God only knows what conditions. I read somewhere that apples get up to 18 drenchings of insecticide before they reach the supermarket shelves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.