I Took Too Much Debt On, Btl's Are Making A Loss, I Am In Deep Shit

[Sisyphus]

Yep - owe bank 1000 in unrecoverable debt, they won't blink an eyelid. Owe them 100,000,000, you don't blink an eyelid!

Somewhere in the middle is an amount where you can negotiate on cash flow. Don't think she is there.

no, i think there was an original quote saying the opposite to the effect of

"owe your bank £10,000 and you've got a problem, owe them £1 million and they've got a problem"

I'll see if I can look it up.

[Solvent Celt]

my maternity leave.

but she's been fired... so presumably she hasn't actually got any maternity leave? I guess this means she is going to sit on her **** for 6 months relying on the failing restaurant and btl rental income to support her?

[warwickbloke]

"owe your bank £10,000 and you've got a problem, owe them £1 million and they've got a problem"

So this silly bint has no problems...........

but her bank has!

thus all the indignation, these problems are passed on to the responsible borrowers.

[Levy process]

I can't understand it. I thought having lots of debt was liberating and sort of terrific all round. That is certainly the impression Carol Vorderman gives me. I have a recording of the advert she's in where she sorts out people's financial problems by allowing them to 'consolidate' their debts leaving them with a bit left over for a car or a holiday. I often play it in a darkened room with the sound turned down while I do a bit of yoga.

That ad creates a wonderfully relaxing and calming environment.

It seems clear to me that that woman's problem is that she does not have enough debt. I don't know why she doesn't have a chat with Carol about it.

[Solvent Celt]

I suggest we show our support by booking a table at...

her husbands restaurant

...then ask for a year to pay the bill.

Edited May 30, 2006 by Solvent Celt

[greengreen]

interesting responses:

Rigsby - good comment about "she actually seemed affronted that the Banks had the sheer audacity to actually want their money back. " I can see how that can be perceived when reading her comments. She did write "telling" them how she would like to pay them back, perhaps she should have "suggested" how she could afford to pay them back and start the dialogue from there.

Solvent Celt - a lot of small business do try and prop up or reinvest in their business to boost it, obviously she made a bad decision and as I said hindsight is 20/20. If you have faced a decision similar to this one, perhaps you have, and you erred on the side of caution, e.g. sell up and get a job - good on you, that is a wise decision, but a lot of small business make decisions based on their heart not with their heads - I see it all the time. One key lesson that I ahve learnt is that if your business starts to impact negatively on your personal life - STOP. She has not learnt this lesson.

MarkG - She is asking her creditors to "let her off" e.g. interest charges, payment holidays etc. If she went into an IVA, she could do something about the interest. Payment holidays - good idea, she will still pay the interest and I wouldnt expect them to not charge the interest. She will pay for her mistakes, but if you dont ask you dont get, she is trying to find a solution. The last thing the banks want to see is her go bankrupt, they do want to get their money. While she is irresponsible in what has happened so far, if she went bankrupt it would have more of an impact on the responsible people in this country.

Okonu - I dont expect them to agree to interest freezes as I said above. Even with the payment holidays, she is still going to have to pay it back with the additional interest that accrues during those holidays if she can - which is a big if. Very good point about her debt being with different firms, perhaps if they were with one firm it may make it easier - I dont know enough about debt consolidation.

Solvent Celt - your second post - I think that you are possibly right about IVA / bankruptcy, unless she gets back to work asap, restaurant is sold, partner finds salaried job/s.

Various posters have made the comment about the tone/wording of her postings which illustrate that she believes she is owed a living and I accept how that can be construed and the feeling of her being affronted. I dont think that is her intention.

And dnd, dont you have any comment about:

The comment by dnd, i think is completely inappropriate:

"Winging middleclass people like this who've never had a bad day in their lives make me want to vomit. "...questioned whether this was the right time for me to be having a baby" - yeah, so what? - does the world owe you a living?"

1. Who cares what class they are! - the class obsession in this country is ridiculous. Do you know she is middle class, are restaurant owners all middle class, dont be ridiculous.

2. "Never had a bad day in their lives" - do not judge people unless you have "walked a mile in their shoes"

[MarkG]

While she is irresponsible in what has happened so far, if she went bankrupt it would have more of an impact on the responsible people in this country.

She's bankrupt already, she just hasn't realised yet: with no job, a loss-making restaurant and loss-making flats she'll be losing more money every month.

She will realise when one of her creditors decides to repossess her BTLs while they're still worth more than the debts.

Various posters have made the comment about the tone/wording of her postings which illustrate that she believes she is owed a living and I accept how that can be construed and the feeling of her being affronted. I dont think that is her intention.

It's easy to pretend you're well off when you're spending other people's money, and pretty irritating when you start whining when the lenders expect their money back. Particularly when you do so on a national broadcaster's web site.

Edited May 30, 2006 by MarkG

[warwickbloke]

i

, unless she gets back to work asap, restaurant is sold, partner finds salaried job/s.

They should apply to run Vodafone, they seem to have all the right experience & qualifications.

She will realise when one of her creditors decides to repossess her BTLs while they're still worth more than the debts.

Always the optimist eh?

I suggest we show our support by booking a table at...

her husbands restaurant

...then ask for a year to pay the bill.

[dnd]

And dnd, dont you have any comment about:

The comment by dnd, i think is completely inappropriate:

"Winging middleclass people like this who've never had a bad day in their lives make me want to vomit. "...questioned whether this was the right time for me to be having a baby" - yeah, so what? - does the world owe you a living?"

1. Who cares what class they are! - the class obsession in this country is ridiculous. Do you know she is middle class, are restaurant owners all middle class, dont be ridiculous.

2. "Never had a bad day in their lives" - do not judge people unless you have "walked a mile in their shoes"

Go on then....

Class is a device created to divide us - like the 'IQ' test (which IMO is culturally biased) - I don't beleive in it - there are only the rich and poor

"Never had a bad day in their lives" - I don't know these people

"...does the world owe you a living?" - I don't care

If you think I deeply believe in any of those comments then your mistaken and should bolster your self-esteem through deep anaysis of others throwaway, catalitic comments somewhere else

Edited May 30, 2006 by dnd

[Rachman]

She's bankrupt already, she just hasn't realised yet: with no job, a loss-making restaurant and loss-making flats she'll be losing more money every month.

She will realise when one of her creditors decides to repossess her BTLs while they're still worth more than the debts.

It's easy to pretend you're well off when you're spending other people's money, and pretty irritating when you start whining when the lenders expect their money back. Particularly when you do so on a national broadcaster's web site.

What's been missed is that not all of the creditors will have worked out the assets she has - I guess that they only know about the one they have lent on in any detail - which means that they won't know and is also probably why she's not getting much joy from them - I have no doubt she's trying not to give them the full list - I would not, which means she's struggling to present her story to them... - she won't have presented to all of BTL lenders, the restaurant financier, the home lender about the rest of the assets, she's done the MEW herself. In fact, what she's done on the BTLs is taken the 'profit' and spent it on a net liability. I should be pretty robust if I were a lender too, it's NOT HER HOME THAT'S GOT HER INTO THIS MESS, it's speculating on an investment in a business venture - if my missus decided it jack it in to open a French school, there's no way I would put up the money for it unless I had done the numbers on an objective basis, if they did not stack up, I would not be putting either the money in or putting up other assets as guarantys.

[Solvent Celt]

interesting responses:

Solvent Celt - a lot of small business do try and prop up or reinvest in their business to boost it, obviously she made a bad decision and as I said hindsight is 20/20. If you have faced a decision similar to this one, perhaps you have, and you erred on the side of caution, e.g. sell up and get a job - good on you, that is a wise decision, but a lot of small business make decisions based on their heart not with their heads - I see it all the time. One key lesson that I ahve learnt is that if your business starts to impact negatively on your personal life - STOP. She has not learnt this lesson.

Solvent Celt - your second post - I think that you are possibly right about IVA / bankruptcy, unless she gets back to work asap, restaurant is sold, partner finds salaried job/s.

Yes I've seen it often as well. People become far to involved to see the bigger picture. By "investing" in the loss making venture all they have done is prolong the agony and put off the hard decision to close the business.

I suspect that sadly they will not do so. They will try to continue the business "as is" until they are forced to close the doors.

IMHO she is also stupid to be so candid in the national media. Took me 2 clicks on google to find the restaurant concerned.

[Gravity's Rainbow]

Stories like this lady's one are good at illuminating what is going on at the micro level in the economy. But the important thing how it is all panning out at the macro level.

For this reason I find it completely pointless to go around passing moral judgement on people who are sliding off the edge of the financial cliff. The debt problem is now so widespread in the UK that it has ceased to be about individual failures of judgement but is now a systemic problem that affects everyone.

Lending is simply too loose, banks have pumped liquidity into the system without regard for the consequences and the policy makers have (The BoE and Govt) have taken a hands-off approach knowing that rampant consumer spending has shored up UK economic performance despite the economy's major structural problems.

In a few years we'll all look back and wonder at the craziness of the easy credit culture of the early 2000s, just as now we look back at the madness of hyperinflation in 1920s Germany.

[greengreen]

She's bankrupt already, she just hasn't realised yet: with no job, a loss-making restaurant and loss-making flats she'll be losing more money every month.

She will realise when one of her creditors decides to repossess her BTLs while they're still worth more than the debts.

I think that this may be true, I would have thought that before she wrote to the banks and lenders and also before she MEWd her BTLs she would have established precisely her financial position and most importantly established fluctuations in her income: voids in her BTLs, continued downturn in the restaurant. the effect of increased IRs. She should have all these costs in black and white and be running through them on a daily basis. She should also be identifying every means possible to reduce her business and family costs. They should also look into the pros and cons of all their available financial options - selling assets, partner getting a job etc.

The big problem if they do have to start selling, is that they are forced to sell fast, they will lose even more - actually that moment may have passed and it may now just be damage limitation. I imagine that they may have thought, "if we invest in the restaurant, turn it back into a going concern with profits we can then sell it", if they cant do this or dont have the time the vultures will start circling on the business as they try and pick up a bargain. For the BTL's perhaps this two month payment holiday is the time to get the places on the market asap and try and absorb the negative equity.

[Nick T]

I don't think Marina will be quite your idea of a woman when the lights go on.

and why do you say that, do you have first hand experience....

[eric pebble]

Why not see if it's easier, faster and cheaper to ...

...GO BANKUPT !!!

Yeh!!! It's free!!! [justabout anyway!]

[sam]

I wonder how she would react if the tenants in her BTLs told her they could not afford to pay the rent for a few months but wanted to continue to live there rent free for a while till things got better?

or even to have a baby of their own

From the moment i read this article i thought she was coming it, "how dare these people make my life hard, i am not one of those chav types, and i am pretty, i am middle class, i have a degree, we are not just anyone don't you know, Ohhhh and did i mention i am having a baby".

[eurows]

She's bankrupt already, she just hasn't realised yet: with no job, a loss-making restaurant and loss-making flats she'll be losing more money every month.

I absolutely agree. She is a bankrupt looking for a last ditch chance to get out. There is a tone of 'these banks owe me something' about her.

'bankrupt walking'

[frugalista]

" My debts are not a result of going on spending sprees and exotic holidays. Instead, I and my husband have borrowed to finance our future. "

So, what she's saying is "I am a greedy speculator who bit off more than I could chew"....

In a way I have more sympathy for the spending spree types.

frugalista

[www]

What enrages me about this story is the despicable piece of human excrement (the bank manager) telling a pregnant woman she has made a mistake wanting another baby.

People like that need lining up against a wall and having their ******ing brains blown out.

YOU LEND MONEY YOU ******ING **** THAT IS ALL YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON. BURN MOTHER******ER BURN!!

[Rachman]

What enrages me about this story is the despicable piece of human excrement (the bank manager) telling a pregnant woman she has made a mistake wanting another baby.

People like that need lining up against a wall and having their ******ing brains blown out.

YOU LEND MONEY YOU ******ING **** THAT IS ALL YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON. BURN MOTHER******ER BURN!!

You only have her word about this. And given the nature of the article, do you really believe what she's written or you actually have any idea what the actual conversations were like between the woman and the bank manager

Instead, you call someone who has no doubt been painted as the bad cop as a MOTHER@@@@@R. And in fact, it's a perfectly legitimate thing to comment on how she's going to struggle with repayments if she has a baby on the way and to ask whether she thought going into debt like she has properly before deciding to have a baby (the opposite side of what she's presented).

Do you also get as excited by the Daily Mail ?

[www]

Do you also get as excited by the Daily Mail ?

Ho ho ho, a cheap shot from a cheap mind.

I don't read any newspapers, to quote Mark Twain "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed".

[Rachman]

I don't read any newspapers, to quote Mark Twain "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed".

Precisely. I guess if websites had existed in Mark Twain's days, the same would have applied, maybe even moreso....

Or is the price for updating that nugget too cheap ?

[MarkG]

What enrages me about this story is the despicable piece of human excrement (the bank manager) telling a pregnant woman she has made a mistake wanting another baby.

What's so magical about pregnancy that it allows people to ignore reality and avoid paying back their debts?

Surely any rational person would realise that when your business is losing money and you can't pay your debts, it's a very bad time to choose to have yet another baby? What's so 'despicable' about someone pointing that out to a woman who's borrowed money from them and now won't be able to pay it back?

[warwickbloke]

What enrages me about this story is the despicable piece of human excrement (the bank manager) telling a pregnant woman she has made a mistake wanting another baby.

People like that need lining up against a wall and having their ******ing brains blown out.

YOU LEND MONEY YOU ******ING **** THAT IS ALL YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON. BURN MOTHER******ER BURN!!

So what advice would you have the bank manager given??

This particular piece of squirming, debt dodgeing idiocy hardly appears qualified to run a financial empire but had a go anyway, why shouldn't the bank manager have a go at unqualified advice as well. Seems to make a better job of giving advice than this bint does of managing her finances!

[Robbrent]

Stories like this lady's one are good at illuminating what is going on at the micro level in the economy. But the important thing how it is all panning out at the macro level.

For this reason I find it completely pointless to go around passing moral judgement on people who are sliding off the edge of the financial cliff. The debt problem is now so widespread in the UK that it has ceased to be about individual failures of judgement but is now a systemic problem that affects everyone.

Lending is simply too loose, banks have pumped liquidity into the system without regard for the consequences and the policy makers have (The BoE and Govt) have taken a hands-off approach knowing that rampant consumer spending has shored up UK economic performance despite the economy's major structural problems.

In a few years we'll all look back and wonder at the craziness of the easy credit culture of the early 2000s, just as now we look back at the madness of hyperinflation in 1920s Germany.

What a good post, and sums it it up for me, the women in question just another statistic, I expect there to be thousands more of them soon, in many respects she deserves what she gets and I can understand many of the FTB's heaping scorn on her, but she is only a victim of the consumer society we live in, we can't be content with what we've got (some can't anyway) we want it all and bugger the consequences.

No doubt many people have felt truly wealthy over the last few years, taken in by the illusion of HPI and easy credit, but like all illusions it comes to an end, I once met an ex alcoholic who told me that the drinking would have been alright, if he never had to get sober!