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Realistbear

Unemployment Is 3 Times As Bad As Reported

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http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=789082006

Revealed: grim truth of Scots unemployment

EDDIE BARNES

POLITICAL EDITOR

THE true figure for unemployment in Scotland is 250,000 - almost three times the official number - according to a groundbreaking report.
Research conducted by one of Britain's leading authorities on the welfare state claims there are 160,000 "hidden unemployed" in Scotland, many of them forced on to sickness benefits through lack of work.

Looking good in Ireland as well:

http://www.bizplus.ie/news/1544

Unemployment Rises By Over 8,000

26/05/06: The number of people signing on the dole increased by more than 8,000 in the six months to April of this year, according to the latest figures from the Central Statistics Office (CSO)
The grim statistics p
Edited by Realistbear

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Suppose I shouldn't pose the obvious - why do we need to have so many international migrants coming into the country to do jobs when there are millions of Brits sitting on their backsides claiming benefits.

Many people would find it hard to believe that in Newham - home to the 2012 Olympics and 6 minutes by train from the City of London - more than half of adults aged 18-64 are economically inactive (code word for not working - at least not work where they pay taxes - and on benefits!). They can't all be single mums with kids under school age!

If we started some of them on apprenticeship training courses now they would be available in 2009 to help out with the construction works for the Olympics. Instead we will have to get tens of thousands of eastern europeans in instead - Wembley may make the Olympics construction look well organised.

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Suppose I shouldn't pose the obvious - why do we need to have so many international migrants coming into the country to do jobs when there are millions of Brits sitting on their backsides claiming benefits.

Many people would find it hard to believe that in Newham - home to the 2012 Olympics and 6 minutes by train from the City of London - more than half of adults aged 18-64 are economically inactive (code word for not working - at least not work where they pay taxes - and on benefits!). They can't all be single mums with kids under school age!

If we started some of them on apprenticeship training courses now they would be available in 2009 to help out with the construction works for the Olympics. Instead we will have to get tens of thousands of eastern europeans in instead - Wembley may make the Olympics construction look well organised.

You’re quite right there MRMX9, it’s a mad world isn’t it ? :lol:

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why do we need to have so many international migrants coming into the country to do jobs when there are millions of Brits sitting on their backsides claiming benefits.

Because the millions of brits won't do the jobs that economic migrants will do. Having been brought up on a diet of MTV and footballers' wives our home-grown dole scroungers consider it their right to have it all for nothing, and won't be seen dead doing a hard days work.

Edit: There also used to be a stygma to claiming benefits, but for kids growing up on these estates these days all they see is adults on the dole. A few apprentice positions won't change the culture of claiming.

Edited by Voice of Reason

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Perhaps we should replace the minimum wage with a living wage - and make work worthwhile financially. Mind you, the kind of short-sighted businessmen I work for still don't get it - then complain that they can't fill their vacancies - one earns profits of 700k per year with a staff of 25 - 80% of the staff are on £7 an hour or less.

By the way, many of the workers I know who are currently not working - people who would have worked in the agricultural and food processing industries - have been displaced by E European workers. They were good workers, most had families to support and valued being self-sufficient. Many are claiming benefits for the first time in years as their veg, fruit, potato picking jobs had gone to sub-minimum wage migrants.

Edited by gruffydd

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Perhaps we should replace the minimum wage with a living wage - and make work worthwhile financially. Mind you, the kind of short-sighted businessmen I work for still don't get it - then complain that they can't fill their vacancies - one earns profits of 700k per year with a staff of 25 - 80% of the staff are on £7 an hour or less.

By the way, many of the workers I know who are currently not working - people who would have worked in the agricultural and food processing industries - have been displaced by E European workers. They were good workers, had families to support and valued being self-sufficient. Spoke to a friend the other day who told me that many of the people he knew were claiming benefits for the first time in years as their veg, fruit, potato picking jobs had gone to sub-minimum wage migrants.

We could make work pay by cutting benefits to those who refuse to take work offered to them as well.

As regards fishing, mining etc, economic change is inevitable. If spanish/chinese/indian workers can do it cheaper then it's the responsibility of those displaced to adapt to a new industry and get themselves back on their feet. There's no such thing as a job for life anymore. Harsh - but that's life.

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Not many of you have heard of the benefits trap then. The problem with a lot of low-paid work is that it is temporary, so you sign off the dole and then have to re-sign on after the work ends - trouble is it takes weeks to get benefit again so short-term work is simply out of the question. And working for the minumum wage doesn't leave you better off what with extras like free dental care and council tax rebate taken away.

I'm going to see my MP about this soon because I don't think politicians have any idea this problem exists.

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And working for the minumum wage doesn't leave you better off what with extras like free dental care and council tax rebate taken away.

True, but by working for the minimum wage you're at least demonstrating to potential employers that you want to work and can hold down a job, the first step in developing yourself towards a job that pays more than minimum wage. It's the first step when approached with the right attitude.

Sitting on the dole is never going to get anyone anywhere.

Edited by Voice of Reason

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You know I always wonder how these immigrants get jobs. You can guarantee that if I went for a job waitering in a hotel the first question would be "have you got any experience?". "Er,well, no actually, but I've got three degrees, I'm an accountant, speak clear English and have demostrated ten years of dedicated, hard work in a number of jobs, here's my CV". "Er, sorry, we need people with actual experience of clearing tables". It would make no difference what I'd done, yet some Pole who can barely speak English and with a false reference from some non-existent hotel would walk into the job with no questions asked.

Edited by FollowTheBear

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Because the millions of brits won't do the jobs that economic migrants will do.

While not having a go at you VoR, this phrase really gets my goat and is trotted out as an excuse for all the lazy buggers out there (on any type of benefit) and also for the government's incompetence in the fact that (they say) we NEED all this immigration.

Anyone see Oona King regurgitate this exact mantra on Question Time on Thursday night?

She got a cushion in the face from my side of the screen!

It's not true that these lazy gits 'won't do' these low paid jobs, it's the fact that the government in it's incompetence actually 'allows' ( through cr@p policies and no having the goolies to take on the hand-wringers) them to get away with doing nothing and claiming their 'entitlements'.

Curb their benefits and have the cops in place to ensure they don't just go about nicking what they want and soon watch them take these low paid jobs.

Curb immigration and watch the employers have to put up the hourly rate. That will mean an actual livable wage for those who have to think about the rest of their lives in this country, and not the short term next two or three years building up a kings ranson for when they can go home - and then live like said king.

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Funny how when houses stick on the market people are quite happy to say "it's overpriced" - but when jobs don't get filled they don't put 2 and 2 together and realise the pay is too low. It's a market; if the jobs don't get filled the wages need to go up. Then work would be more attractive than benefits and there'd be no need to get particularly heavy-handed with those unemployed at the moment. It's not rocket science.

And VoR, whose "reason" is this? The usual comfortable prosperous middle-class we're alright and it's fine to import and exploit a load of cheap E Europeans to hold down interest rates and provide us with cheap goods and services?

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Perhaps we should replace the minimum wage with a living wage - and make work worthwhile financially. Mind you, the kind of short-sighted businessmen I work for still don't get it

All the more incentive to employ illegals, the honest businessmen who do "get it" will be simply driven out of business as they can't compete. This isn't hypothetical, btw.

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Curb their benefits and have the cops in place to ensure they don't just go about nicking what they want and soon watch them take these low paid jobs.

Agree with this entirely, when I said they "won't do" them I meant they have no incentive to given the current system.

And VoR, whose "reason" is this? The usual comfortable prosperous middle-class we're alright and it's fine to import and exploit a load of cheap E Europeans to hold down interest rates and provide us with cheap goods and services?

It is a market, and so employers choose between paying what employees demand and not having the job done. If employers are choosing not to raise wages and not filling vacancies then obviously the jobs they advertise aren't worth the additional cost.

It is ok to source resources (human or otherwise) from the cheapest locations, it is the responsibility of every individual to adapt to the market place to make themselves and their skills sellable at the rate they want to receive.

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It's funny how people on the dole are called scroungers, but how about all those ghastly business 'scroungers' that gobble up billions in subsidies each year - they probably get through a great deal more government cash than those on the dole. And what about all those pointless public sector jobs - would you rather pay someone the dole or 50k a year to do something totally pointless?

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Subsidising failing businesses and pointless public service jobs are equally reprehensible in my opinion, although I doubt they consume as much as the benefits system. All three wastes of money are in need of a proper overhaul though.

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No, I don't agree Buying Bear - several successful companies I know of have implemented Living Wage policies - sure, their costs may rise a little, but then higher salaries help cut staff turnover, increase productivity, etc. The company I was referring to could easlily absorb another 40-80k on staff costs.

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Ah, whatever happened to that good old 'german' model of rendering scroungers down for their body fat and turning them into soap? (and extracting any goldfillings along the way, of course). I dunno. Where's Brainclamp when you need him?

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No, I don't agree Buying Bear - several successful companies I know of have implemented Living Wage policies - sure, their costs may rise a little, but then higher salaries help cut staff turnover, increase productivity, etc. The company I was referring to could easlily absorb another 40-80k on staff costs.

That's great, but what happens when their direct competitor decides to employ illegals at £3 an hour? This is especially felt in some sectors, supermarkets drive down costs without considering the consequences, they know deep down that a supplier cannot deliver on these prices legally but they don't care, the honest businesses are punished by the market place.

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30 bilion for the nuclear industry? "The Private Finance Initiative is now as sticky with sweeteners as any Tory privatization deal. The nuclear industry has been allowed to accumulate a £30 billion shortfall in its provision against the costs of decommissioning, which will have to be discharged by the taxpayer. The Ministry of Defence still conflates the defence of the nation with the defence of the nation’s arms manufacturers."

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30 bilion for the nuclear industry? "The Private Finance Initiative is now as sticky with sweeteners as any Tory privatization deal. The nuclear industry has been allowed to accumulate a £30 billion shortfall in its provision against the costs of decommissioning"

Yes, but their pension liabilities are minimal :ph34r:

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/monarchy/story/0...1443893,00.html

This has got to be the limit on paying people for doing nothing! If they dont need to work for it why should the rest of us. Lead by example.

So your point is "The Royals do it so it's ok"? Sure farm subsidies (like all subsidies) need to be looked and where possible eliminated, but what's that got to do with dole scroungers?

The Royals don't "lead" as such.

Their existance brings UK PLC millions in the form of tourism trade which otherwise wouldn't be received.

They shouldn't receive subsidies but that's irrelevent to the debate on the benefits system.

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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