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Apartment Flooded With Sewage

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A friend came back home on Saturday night to find her bathroom in her new flat being flooded with sewage. The toilet is quite odd with some sort of pump and chemical arrangement, its never worked properly since she moved in and agent has had it repaired numerous times.

They've made daft suggestions like shes using wrong type of toilet paper as well!!!

As the entire flat would eventually have been flooded with effluent she called an emergency plumber, paying the cost approx. £300 - problem was fixed and now toliet seems to work OK.

Although they gave no details of an emergency contact estate agent refuses to cover the cost saying that she should have gone through them, although as it was early hours of Sunday morning and flood was rising this was obviously impossible.

Does anyone here know if she definitly has no recourse for claiming money back?

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Guest Winners and Losers

A friend came back home on Saturday night to find her bathroom in her new flat being flooded with sewage. The toilet is quite odd with some sort of pump and chemical arrangement, its never worked properly since she moved in and agent has had it repaired numerous times.

They've made daft suggestions like shes using wrong type of toilet paper as well!!!

As the entire flat would eventually have been flooded with effluent she called an emergency plumber, paying the cost approx. £300 - problem was fixed and now toliet seems to work OK.

Although they gave no details of an emergency contact estate agent refuses to cover the cost saying that she should have gone through them, although as it was early hours of Sunday morning and flood was rising this was obviously impossible.

Does anyone here know if she definitly has no recourse for claiming money back?

How sh*tty is that! :rolleyes:

No doubt TTRTR will be along any minute now to offer some advice. If it was one of his tenants, he'd go and clean it up himself, afterall he is an expert in dealing with bullsh*t.

I would say that she can absolutely claim the money back. I would withold it out of my rent.

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I would say that she can absolutely claim the money back. I would withold it out of my rent.

Exactly right - deduct it from next month's rent, and keep all the paperwork etc.

I like to imagine that even TTRTR will acknowledge that the landlord should pay for this. We'll see...

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Here I am, quick as possible (was out cleaning my wife's car, the tart won't do it herself, I accuse her of being very tenant-like on occasions).

Firstly, for my forum friends, yes I do have the equipment, knowledge and expertise to deal with this problem myself and our tenant friend here would never have suffered this injustice in the first place had they been renting from me. I have had my hands in the shit before & will do it again for the sake of the £1,000 an hour I earn in my position! :D

Now, down to business. I assume stenton that you are telling us about a macerator attached to the back of the toilet waste that pumps the waste away when you flush it? The main brand is called a Saniflow. Is this what you're talking about?

Anyway, using too much toilet paper will tend to block these machines often. I recommend your friend does a double flush when completing a number two if you know what I mean. That way they can mix enough water with the waste to get the waste flushed away successfully each time.

Anyway can you please describe what happened better? Was water coming out of the toilet? Did the macerator detach from the pipes (this does happen) & pump waste into the bathroom instead of the pipe? What else could it have been?

Unfortunately I think your agent/landlord will argue the case that they should have had the chance to see why it was broken. It may for example have been the tenants fault & they legitimately may have wanted to get the tenant to pay. What I'm saying here applies to many situations, but the truth of the matter is that these macerators are notoriously unreliable and prone to this type of accident and in my case, there are none fitted for any of my tenants (builders wanted to fit 3 in loft conversions I did to save themselves money on proper plumbing, but I insisted on not having them because I know the regular problems they cause), but entirely truthfully, if I did have one fitted, I'd expect to pay an emergency plumber at least once a year to sort it out.

In other words, if I were the LL, I would cough up and thank your friend for dealing with it. But I can also understand why the real LL would be reluctant to cough up.

The moral of the story. Don't rent a place with a macerator.

Give me some more specific details & I can try to answer more specifically. Did you friend take any photo's? Did the plumber give a receipt stating the cause of the problem? I suspect it was probably a loosly fitted pipe that seperated & allowed the first flush to escape which also would have left no chance to use the toilet for the tenant which would be a very bad situation.

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Send a letter, recorded, to the landlord, telling them that you hold them fully responsible for the costs, and why you do. Tell them they have 14 days to reimburse the cost. If they do not, deduct the amount from the rent.

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Send a letter, recorded, to the landlord, telling them that you hold them fully responsible for the costs, and why you do. Tell them they have 14 days to reimburse the cost. If they do not, deduct the amount from the rent.

Succint Mr Shed. TTRTR had to go on and on and on. He loves the sound of his own fingers tapping away on the keyboard. P*ssy whipped as well by the sound of things. ;)

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The moral of the story. Don't rent a place with a macerator.

I remember the story of housemate who used to disappear to her room for an early night, and five minutes later the TV reception was terrible, almost like she was using a haridryer. So I agree with TTRTR.

btp

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They've made daft suggestions like shes using wrong type of toilet paper as well!!!

Perhaps she should call Dr Gillian McKeith to have a look. Perhaps she's eating the wrong type of food :lol:

Here I am, quick as possible (was out cleaning my wife's car, the tart won't do it herself, I accuse her of being very tenant-like on occasions).

Surely a man of your considerable means can afford a valet :unsure:

Send a letter, recorded, to the landlord, telling them that you hold them fully responsible for the costs, and why you do. Tell them they have 14 days to reimburse the cost. If they do not, deduct the amount from the rent.

I'd be inclined to try and settle the matter. If a proportion of the rent is withheld surely the LL will simply make a note of it and withhold it from the deposit when she moves out.

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Perhaps she should call Dr Gillian McKeith to have a look. Perhaps she's eating the wrong type of food :lol:

Surely a man of your considerable means can afford a valet :unsure:

I'd be inclined to try and settle the matter. If a proportion of the rent is withheld surely the LL will simply make a note of it and withhold it from the deposit when she moves out.

In which case the small claims court will take care of that problem.

Not so meek -- if people get away all the time with being silly, life only gets harder because they will get sillier since it appears to work. So you want to nip this kind of thing in the bud.

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If this was my tenant I would be more than happy to foot the bill. By taking emergency action she has saved her LL much more than the costs of the repair.

My tenant lives 10 doors away and knows that if I can't tend to a problem I will get someone there probably within an hour. But if she was unable to get hold of me because I was in a meeting at work I would be grateful if she took the same action as Stenton's friend.

But if a property is let through an EA they will have policies in place that too often protects the LL. And that's coming from a LL!

There are better, safer and more cost effective ways of having repairs done but that won't count for much because most letting agents care about one thing and one thing only. Commision. You may find that the LL's hands are tied and that it is the letting agent demanding that the tenant pays.

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Surely a man of your considerable means can afford a valet :unsure:

You don't accumulate by leaking money for things you can do yourself. Think of me as the mild mannered millionaire next door quietly cleaning his expensive car looking like he can't afford the car finance. When in reality the car is fully paid for and the neighbour wouldn't realise. The mild mannered millionaire didn't get the money by paying everyone else.

I enjoyed one of those debt shows a while back. The unemployed lady with people knocking on her door getting her finance payments after dole day. They followed her to the pawn shop where she got the rings out of hock. What did she do the first moment she had some leftover money? She put 20% down on a £189 Argos Christmas Hamper full of luxury jams and chocolates & wine that she needed like a kick in the head! Her Mum put the 80% in her name with Argos at 29.8%!!!!!!!! Only a fiver a week for most the year she said!

The moral of the story. People who waste their money will never accumulate anything of value.

Send a letter, recorded, to the landlord, telling them that you hold them fully responsible for the costs, and why you do. Tell them they have 14 days to reimburse the cost. If they do not, deduct the amount from the rent.

Succint Mr Shed. TTRTR had to go on and on and on. He loves the sound of his own fingers tapping away on the keyboard. P*ssy whipped as well by the sound of things. ;)

The usual MrShed way. Threaten threaten threaten. Do you have any long standing relationships shedman?

Personally if I were the tenant if this is not resolved ammicably I would move out at the end of the lease as they can be certain that the macerator will fail again.

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You don't accumulate by leaking money for things you can do yourself. Think of me as the mild mannered millionaire next door quietly cleaning his expensive car looking like he can't afford the car finance. When in reality the car is fully paid for and the neighbour wouldn't realise. The mild mannered millionaire didn't get the money by paying everyone else.

I couldn't agree more, but that's 'cause I'm trying to accumulate my fortune. Once I have it I will spend a bit to enhance the quality of my life. After all, you can't take it with you and GB gets far too much of what you leave behind so there's no point havign any left anyway. Also, as a wealthy friend of mine points out; If you can work and earn £60 in an hour, why waste your money doing a job that you could pay someone else £6 and hour to do, thus leaving you free to earn ten times as much?

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I couldn't agree more, but that's 'cause I'm trying to accumulate my fortune. Once I have it I will spend a bit to enhance the quality of my life. After all, you can't take it with you and GB gets far too much of what you leave behind so there's no point havign any left anyway. Also, as a wealthy friend of mine points out; If you can work and earn £60 in an hour, why waste your money doing a job that you could pay someone else £6 and hour to do, thus leaving you free to earn ten times as much?

That leads me nicely onto the point I left alone earlier.

To get what you want in life IMO you can either spend more to get it, or give yourself more time to do it yourself. What I mean is that I live in a nice house, looking over the sea, have three wonderful children and enjoy the time I have with them very much. That is what I want in life, time.

What good is a £60 an hour job if it keeps you from the people you care about?

My car washing excercise was also a family moment with my children helping with the wash & both a learning experience and a fun moment.

Why would I want to pay someone else £6 for that? (And besides, here in Northern Sweden I'd be paying them £14 unfortunately)

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TTRTR it is nothing to do with threaten threaten threaten. It is clear that the landlord has no intention of taking responsibility for these costs, and so the tenant should take advantage of his legal right of offset, as it is clear that the landlord should be made responsible.

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Well I'm sure you can guess what I am going to say.....that clause is unenforceable, it is a breach of the fair terms of the OFT to prevent the tenants right of offset.

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Can you please provide a link to this right of offset?

I suspect it is a misunderstanding like your HMO beliefs.

Not heard of Google?

In practice tenancy terms listed as unfair in this document are not enforcable: OFT.

The tenant would need no court order to withhold rent regardless of the above. They'd just write a different number on the cheque! You would need to go to court to claim the arrears on rent, and in this case you would lose.

T&T

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Not heard of Google?

In practice tenancy terms listed as unfair in this document are not enforcable: OFT.

The tenant would need no court order to withhold rent regardless of the above. They'd just write a different number on the cheque! You would need to go to court to claim the arrears on rent, and in this case you would lose.

T&T

That's a good read thank you. I would stress that it's up to the tenant to challenge the terms of the agreement and simply witholding rent is not a good start to that.

Also in this particular case, there is the fact that the tenant can be accused of not giving enough time for the LL to make the repair. The LL/agent could have repaired it for a fraction of the £300 (emergency plumbers love to overcharge for one off obs for people that don't know how to fix something themselves) the tenant paid and therefore IMO the LL/agent has legitimate cause to dispute the bill and the tenant witholding rent to cover that bill will guarantee an eviction at least at the end of the term of the tenancy.

Like I said, I personally would have expected the problem if it were my macerator, but some people aren't as reasonable as that.

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That's a good read thank you. I would stress that it's up to the tenant to challenge the terms of the agreement and simply witholding rent is not a good start to that.

That's incorrect. The guidance is in relation to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. This gives the right for a consumer to ignore or challenge any unfair contract term.

Also in this particular case, there is the fact that the tenant can be accused of not giving enough time for the LL to make the repair. The LL/agent could have repaired it for a fraction of the £300 (emergency plumbers love to overcharge for one off obs for people that don't know how to fix something themselves) the tenant paid and therefore IMO the LL/agent has legitimate cause to dispute the bill and the tenant witholding rent to cover that bill will guarantee an eviction at least at the end of the term of the tenancy.

Like I said, I personally would have expected the problem if it were my macerator, but some people aren't as reasonable as that.

This is a stronger argument, however given that:

o no 24 hour cover had been provided by the LL,

o there was an immediate and obvious risk to the tenant's property and amenity along with health issues with sewage,

then you would have a very difficult time claiming that the tenant had no right of offset.

The timing and urgency was obviously such that an emergency plumber was required, and it appears as though the bill was for the going rate, so I doubt you could challenge on the grounds of overcharging.

Regarding the eviction at the end of the tenancy, of course that's your right, but punishing a tenant for merely expecting what is required in law and acting in accordance is morally questionable IMO. But then you probably shouldn't have frozen Hans in Carbonite. Was he a tenant of yours?

T&T

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There are many assumptions here and given that the original poster hasn't clarified what happened, I think it's unreasonable to declare a certain chain of events should have happened.

For example the tenant may have a number that they can contact the agent or LL on in emergencies. They may have failed to use that number etc.

If the tenant failed to do what is asked, then demanding the LL pays 300 pounds or else is unreasonable IMO and warrants an eviction at the end of the tenancy.

Just like tenants don't like LL's that don't do what is needed, LL's don't like tenants who don't do what is needed. My own tenants have my number & I can be reached anytime, so I would take this position if events went that way. There is nothing worse than a tenant being demanding, unreasonable and threatening and it is completely unnecesary and destroys the relationship.

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The initial post states quite clearly that "Although they gave no details of an emergency contact estate agent refuses to cover the cost"... so the tenant had no means to contact the landlord or agent. If they did have a number and failed to use it then the LL would have strong grounds for recovering some or all of the money.

I find it astounding that you berate others for not doing their research and not "apologising" for confusion on technical issues ("HMO vs licensable HMO"), but then repeat those same errors yourself.

T&T

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