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dpg50000

It's Just Hit Me How Stupid Things Really Are.

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As per the title. I've thought UK house prices were well overvalued for some time. However, as a homeowner who woud like to trade up, but has no urgent pressing need, it's something that's not really affected me. I just keep saving, overpaying the mortgage, and if prices come down I might move up.

Just how stupid current prices are was brought home to me last night. A couple I know are looking at getting a 3 * joint income mortgage to buy their first house. Said house is in an absolute sink-hole, drug infested estate (The Larches estate, for anyone who knows Preston), and is a 3 bed ex-council in need of some work. Asking price £117K ! They had looked at several similar houses in that area, as it was all they can stretch to.

The thing that they commented on, and which struck me, was that a lot of the houses were owned by relatively poor single mums, lower income families etc. They looked at one house which was in particulary poor condition (but still over 100K) and the garden was an absolute eyesore. The owner was apparently one of the really rough slappers who looked like she'd never done a days work in her life. She gave them a cackle, and said "Ye, sorry, I don't do gardening luv".

The point is all these people are relatively poor / low income, yet they own a house for which my friends will need to take out a 3 * joint income mortgage to live in one of the worst areas of Preston. Truly, truly madness.

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As per the title. I've thought UK house prices were well overvalued for some time. However, as a homeowner who woud like to trade up, but has no urgent pressing need, it's something that's not really affected me. I just keep saving, overpaying the mortgage, and if prices come down I might move up.

Just how stupid current prices are was brought home to me last night. A couple I know are looking at getting a 3 * joint income mortgage to buy their first house. Said house is in an absolute sink-hole, drug infested estate (The Larches estate, for anyone who knows Preston), and is a 3 bed ex-council in need of some work. Asking price £117K ! They had looked at several similar houses in that area, as it was all they can stretch to.

The thing that they commented on, and which struck me, was that a lot of the houses were owned by relatively poor single mums, lower income families etc. They looked at one house which was in particulary poor condition (but still over 100K) and the garden was an absolute eyesore. The owner was apparently one of the really rough slappers who looked like she'd never done a days work in her life. She gave them a cackle, and said "Ye, sorry, I don't do gardening luv".

The point is all these people are relatively poor / low income, yet they own a house for which my friends will need to take out a 3 * joint income mortgage to live in one of the worst areas of Preston. Truly, truly madness.

I realise your main point is that house prices are too high but are you also suggesting these "relatively poor single mums, lower income families etc" should not be given a council house and/or various governments should not have sold them off?

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I realise your main point is that house prices are too high but are you also suggesting these "relatively poor single mums, lower income families etc" should not be given a council house and/or various governments should not have sold them off?

They probably shouldn't have sold them off without the proviso that they would build replacements for every one sold.

NDL

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I agree entirely. As a potential FTB, I have decided to take a year off, and travel a bit. Seems to me that house prices will be the same or lower in the summer of 2007, so why hang around? My deposit is growing very nicely indeed.

The cost of my air ticket, which is entirely flexible, is £1150. I can take in up to 6 stops, worldwide. Maybe I'll pick up some work here and there; but if I don't, it doesn't matter. I can live frugally and take time to really get to know people and places.

The point is, £1150 doesn't buy much, even in the way of FEES, when you invest in a UK property, does it?

So, the choice is: a year's holiday in the sun, or buy a crappy ex-council semi from slapper benefits lady?

I know where my smart money is going - not Preston.

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Hold on to your hats for a minute.........

Our very own Carol 'without a Paddle' Vorderman will astonish and amaze us with statistics that prove beyond doubt this is a good investment and cheaper than living with your parents for nothing....

Fire away WAP.......... :rolleyes:

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I realise your main point is that house prices are too high but are you also suggesting these "relatively poor single mums, lower income families etc" should not be given a council house and/or various governments should not have sold them off?

Could someone please explain the logic/philosophy behind selling-off council houses to tenants below the market rate?

I don't get it.

Edited by HPCheese

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Could someone please explain the logic/philosophy behind selling-off council houses to tenants below the market rate?

I don't get it.

Robbing the rich to give to the poor. Though the definition of "rich" in this case would be anyone who pays tax.

But in seriousness I read that the reasoning behind it was that the conservatives thought that home-owners would be more likely to vote conservative than council tenants. So they figured out a way to convert one into the other.

Billy Shears

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Robbing the rich to give to the poor. Though the definition of "rich" in this case would be anyone who pays tax.

But in seriousness I read that the reasoning behind it was that the conservatives thought that home-owners would be more likely to vote conservative than council tenants. So they figured out a way to convert one into the other.

Billy Shears

Just a note that my, and everybody else's taxes, paid for those council houses on the understanding that they were for the poor who couldn't afford a house. Now, we can buy them (which wasn't the original understanding), however, if I want one (which I certainly don't) I'll need to pay for it AGAIN! :angry:

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But in seriousness I read that the reasoning behind it was that the conservatives thought that home-owners would be more likely to vote conservative than council tenants. So they figured out a way to convert one into the other.

To be fair, I believe Labour councils were buying votes with low rents for council houses, so neither side comes out looking good.

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As per the title. I've thought UK house prices were well overvalued for some time. However, as a homeowner who woud like to trade up, but has no urgent pressing need, it's something that's not really affected me. I just keep saving, overpaying the mortgage, and if prices come down I might move up.

"Congratulations, you're now worth £100k more than five years ago, isn't that great?"

Err, no!, so your 'make do' house doubles in value from £100k to £200k and your dream house doubles from £200k to £400k (if not more). So that extra £100k means nothing, you're actually a further £100k away than before.

Most people are too stupid to realise this of course, they just think the greater the £££ the better. It's the ultminate con, a triumph of marketing, the banks have done great.

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I agree entirely. As a potential FTB, I have decided to take a year off, and travel a bit.

That's a great idea. I think it'll be very good for the karma to forget about property.

I think that the 'security' that owning a house gives you is massively overrated.

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That's a great idea. I think it'll be very good for the karma to forget about property.

I think that the 'security' that owning a house gives you is massively overrated.

I agree.

Purchasing a house now comes with a large degree of insecurity...

:unsure:

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As per the title. I've thought UK house prices were well overvalued for some time. However, as a homeowner who woud like to trade up, but has no urgent pressing need, it's something that's not really affected me. I just keep saving, overpaying the mortgage, and if prices come down I might move up.

Just how stupid current prices are was brought home to me last night. A couple I know are looking at getting a 3 * joint income mortgage to buy their first house. Said house is in an absolute sink-hole, drug infested estate (The Larches estate, for anyone who knows Preston), and is a 3 bed ex-council in need of some work. Asking price £117K ! They had looked at several similar houses in that area, as it was all they can stretch to.

The thing that they commented on, and which struck me, was that a lot of the houses were owned by relatively poor single mums, lower income families etc. They looked at one house which was in particulary poor condition (but still over 100K) and the garden was an absolute eyesore. The owner was apparently one of the really rough slappers who looked like she'd never done a days work in her life. She gave them a cackle, and said "Ye, sorry, I don't do gardening luv".

The point is all these people are relatively poor / low income, yet they own a house for which my friends will need to take out a 3 * joint income mortgage to live in one of the worst areas of Preston. Truly, truly madness.

I live in preston aswell, im currently trying to find a house that needs work. My parents said if you get a mortgage you dont need to pay board(stay at home till house has been done up). So far i have looked into three repossed houses all of which needed lots of work doing to them, i put offers in at what i thought was reasonable considering the jobs that were required to bring it up to standard. Every offer has been rejected and the prices they were asking were the same as other houses which only required decorating to your taste. It seems to me there are still a lot of idiots out there paying way over the odds for a poor condition property just for the sake of owning something.

One house i put an offer in had not been decorated for years needed a rewire, central heating, new gutters, had obvious damp problems, whole house stank of dog piss, front bedroom had been used for keeping birds in :blink: , 1970's kitchen/bathroom and the d/g windows were all loose and half of them had condensation in the middle of them. Somebody paid asking price and have moved in :o . Now im an electrician by trade and a few of my mates are plasterers/plumbers so building works arent a problem for me. But for somebody to pay over the odds for a house and then borrow on the mortgage to carry out the work is stupid. They are in negative equity already or are living like tramps in a crack den. Anyway rant over im just going to keep building my deposit up and keep playing the waiting game.

Edited by awesom-o

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Here's my own 'personal' testimony of how far the market has gone. I have to get this out of my system and this seems like a relevant thread.

As a child in the early/mid-90's I lived in a council semi in Glos.

My stepfather, a hard-working chap, worked 80 hours a week in order to pay the bills and feed the family. At the time I recall he suffered from genuine back trouble but kept on going to work.

The guy next door, in the adjoining propertly, didn't work. Instead he was on the incapacity benefit equivalent of the time, allegedly due to a bad back. It was very obvious that he spent most of his time riding horses (which he owned) and on many occasions I saw him single-handedly hawling BIG logs (stolen, from the Forestry Commission) from his 4x4 and chopping them in the yard with a huge axe. Occasionally he gave us a few logs, which we used to heat the house. Meanwhile his girlfriend stayed at home in the day and his kid had far more toys than I did. Basically, they were plebs, yet they were far better off than we were.

My parents eventually moved and now, by anybody's standards, they are poor. They certainly don't own a property.

In contrast, in speaking to a friend who still lives in the area, the neighbour was 'shrewd' enough to buy his council house for £27k in 1997, and is now 'property rich' sitting in a house worth £160k.

Looking back it seemed scandalous enough that somebody who lived on benefits was visibly much better off than somebody who worked his nuts off on a low-average wage.

But putting my parents aside, consider that now, with a £45k salary plus a wife and two kids, I would *struggle* to replicate the 'success' of this neighbour. It is feasible that the likes of 'I' could by my first house from the likes of 'him'. He could actually sell the decrepid shite hole and either retire in the sun or buy a new Aston Martin!!! And this is a guy who has never worked a day in his life.

I needn't say more.

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Maybe you should try saying this to your local MP.

Council houses should have never been sold. A lot of councils are renting these houses back from BTL's to house the one parent families and immigrants. How ironic and sad.

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A truly disturbing story, sorry to hear about your parents it really does make a mockery of the concept of social justice.

However it is all far too common these days, the houses, a public asset should never ever had been sold off. For me this is Thatchers Betrayal to the wider public.

Here's my own 'personal' testimony of how far the market has gone. I have to get this out of my system and this seems like a relevant thread.

As a child in the early/mid-90's I lived in a council semi in Glos.

My stepfather, a hard-working chap, worked 80 hours a week in order to pay the bills and feed the family. At the time I recall he suffered from genuine back trouble but kept on going to work.

The guy next door, in the adjoining propertly, didn't work. Instead he was on the incapacity benefit equivalent of the time, allegedly due to a bad back. It was very obvious that he spent most of his time riding horses (which he owned) and on many occasions I saw him single-handedly hawling BIG logs (stolen, from the Forestry Commission) from his 4x4 and chopping them in the yard with a huge axe. Occasionally he gave us a few logs, which we used to heat the house. Meanwhile his girlfriend stayed at home in the day and his kid had far more toys than I did. Basically, they were plebs, yet they were far better off than we were.

My parents eventually moved and now, by anybody's standards, they are poor. They certainly don't own a property.

In contrast, in speaking to a friend who still lives in the area, the neighbour was 'shrewd' enough to buy his council house for £27k in 1997, and is now 'property rich' sitting in a house worth £160k.

Looking back it seemed scandalous enough that somebody who lived on benefits was visibly much better off than somebody who worked his nuts off on a low-average wage.

But putting my parents aside, consider that now, with a £45k salary plus a wife and two kids, I would *struggle* to replicate the 'success' of this neighbour. It is feasible that the likes of 'I' could by my first house from the likes of 'him'. He could actually sell the decrepid shite hole and either retire in the sun or buy a new Aston Martin!!! And this is a guy who has never worked a day in his life.

I needn't say more.

Edited by laurejon

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A truly disturbing story, sorry to hear about your parents it really does make a mockery of the concept of social justice.

However it is all far too common these days, the houses, a public asset should never ever had been sold off. For me this is Thatchers Betrayal to the wider public.

Under New Labour that same property now costs £350,000

The Tories are truly the party of cheap housing for all, not just those with contacts to the Rich and Famous passing down dodgy loans in return for peerages and favours.

Next Election, you decide, 50k houses for your children, or 600k houses for your Government Employees.

Did you just change your mind or something?

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No, been constant for over 10 years with what I think.

Thatcher had a policy of affordable housing for all, a good policy in principle.

However the sale of Council Housing at massive discounts was not only foolish, but downright criminal.

The houses should have at least covered the rebuild costs, and the money immediately put to use building more houses on Government Land.

Let me explain further, I left school under a labour Government, No Job, No Further Education as I had zero qualifications. Yes in those days, education was the preserve of those............who were educated, how Socialist is that, know your place and do not dare step out of line.

Under Thatcher, I was apprenticed albeit self employed. However I did get a trade, and I did change from being hopeless to having hope. I broke with the tradition of my peers and instead of getting myself on the housing list, bought my first property. Something I could never had done under the previous labour government.

The reasons are complex, but oldies will know about the financial regulations with regard to lending in place during the labour party rule and subsequent destruction of the education system, and the bankruptcy of the nation having to go to the IMF or a handout to keep the nation from going bankrupt.

Edited by laurejon

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No, been constant for over 10 years with what I think.

Thatcher had a policy of affordable housing for all, a good policy in principle.

However the sale of Council Housing at massive discounts was not only foolish, but downright criminal.

The houses should have at least covered the rebuild costs, and the money immediately put to use building more houses on Government Land.

I will agree that Thatcher believed in the principle of home ownership for everyone. And maybe she was even the first to articulate this principle, to tell the British people that they could all own homes - and thus was responsible for creating the myth that owning your own home should take central stage in any life plan.

And then she sold off the social housing and reduced tenants rights. Thatcher may have thought she was opening out home ownership to the masses with her schemes, although I suspect she was rather more politically motivated than that in the end.

Why do you think that the Tories are the party of low cost housing, given that they certainly share much of the blame for the current mess. Can you offer any concrete policy committments they have made recently on the subject?

Edited by AFineMess

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I am afraid I cannot, the Conservatives have stepped out of politics now and appear to be playing a winning hand as Labour self destruct on their own with things getting worse and worse for them everytime they open their mouths.

If I was a cynic I would say that the politics of this nation are corrupt to the core, that a gentlemans agreement exists not just on a national scale, but on a global basis. That people we never see, never hear of, and never meet, are manipulating the politics of nations to suit their own agenda's.

I will let you all make your own minds up about that in case I get carted off to the funny farm.

But one thing is for sure, the Conservatives by sitting on the sidelines and just watching are getting a heap more political capital than joining in the childish fray as we have seen in the past.

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When my Mum bought her council house in the early 90s she had been a council tenant for 50 years. The house she bought (for 27k if memory serves) was built in 1918 for £120. At the time when she bought it she was one of the few people left on the estate that actually paid their rent - by that time about £60 a week. Most of the people on the estate were, by then, on benefits.

She and my Dad had bought and paid for that house dozens of times over. Yet still she had to take out a mortgage which I guaranteed to buy it.

The idea of council house sales was that it was not deemed to be society's job to house people who were perfectly capable of housing themselves. Back in the 60s and 70s - if you were in work and had a council house - you were paying a pittance compared to those with mortgages. Lots of people on the estate I grew up on were buying nice cars, foreign holidays etc - but were living in housing provided by the state.

Also, as council estates that were once decent places to live started to fall into disrepair, with all the inflation in those days, it began to become very expensive to maintain them. (Decorated inside every 7 years as I recall and outside every 5 years). Fence blows down in the wind - no problem, call the council. Given that people who own their own houses look after them better than people that don't - it made sense to sell them to the tenants who had already paid a fair whack for them.

Where it went wrong was the rule that stipulated that councils could not use the proceeds of council house sales to build new council houses for people that NEEDED them. If they had done that, we could have a lot more Somalian drug dealers housed properly at our expense.

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I am afraid I cannot, the Conservatives have stepped out of politics now and appear to be playing a winning hand as Labour self destruct on their own with things getting worse and worse for them everytime they open their mouths.

If I was a cynic I would say that the politics of this nation are corrupt to the core, that a gentlemans agreement exists not just on a national scale, but on a global basis. That people we never see, never hear of, and never meet, are manipulating the politics of nations to suit their own agenda's.

I will let you all make your own minds up about that in case I get carted off to the funny farm.

But one thing is for sure, the Conservatives by sitting on the sidelines and just watching are getting a heap more political capital than joining in the childish fray as we have seen in the past.

Well, it has been said that governments lose elections rather than parties winning them. It's also been said that it doesn't matter who you vote for: the government always gets in!

The Tories haven't played any particularly brilliant political moves recently. All that has happened is enough time has passed for the old faces, still tarred with the disaster of their last government, to fade away. And now the opposition "we're cuddly and love everyone, we'll all be rich and happy if we are elected" spin begins. By the time they sell out everything they ever believed in to gain power, they will be just like the people they aim to replace (if they aren't already).

IMHO, this is the whole problem with a first past the post, winner takes all electoral system. If there are clear differences in policy with room to manoever, it can enable strong, decisive government. When things are more international, with less clear cut differences between the parties, it just leads to voter apathy - ie it doesn't matter who you vote for.

I would rather have some form of proportional representation. At least we could be assured that our votes would make a difference, in the less black and white, fuzzier and more interdependant world we now live in. Just my 0.5p worth.

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  • 335 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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