Thatcher The Architect Of Cheap Housing

[laurejon]

If anyone is young enough to remember 1995, or can find a property paper published in 1995 they will see that a three bed semi was averaging £50,000.

Under New Labour that same property now costs £350,000

The Tories are truly the party of cheap housing for all, not just those with contacts to the Rich and Famous passing down dodgy loans in return for peerages and favours.

Next Election, you decide, 50k houses for your children, or 600k houses for your Government Employees.

[right_freds_dead]

what utter shite.

before thatcher the whole homeowner status wasnt a big deal. you wanted 3 beds. you got them. council or mortgage. once the tories had sold off the council stock and stopped building in 1984, the great chase was on.

and we ended up with the very same houses as before, only at 8x the price.

how did we rip ourselves off so badly ?

next lauriejohn will be blaming new labour for the destruction of british heavy industry.

try naming one GOOD thatcher policy that stands today ?

[laurejon]

The Tories sold only 5% of council stock, for sure that was 5% too much.

Labour have sold off 95% of what remained!!!.

That is in addition to selling off School Playing Fields, Hospital Grounds, and of course the much Fabled Inland Revenue Buildings, and the Gold Reserves of the United Kingdom.

If Sh!t was worth money, New Labour would be selling that too.

New Labours Bargain Basement Bonnanza is about to end, they have nothing left to sell.

[Magpie]

I think there is plenty of blame on both sides. I'm unimpressed by Nulab's record on housing, and their continued destruction of pensions did a lot to encourage the BTL craze.

On the other hand the Tories abolished ASTs to make landlording easier (in the process creating the conditions for BTL). They flogged off the country's council housing stock as a bribe to the working classes, in the process giving a generation a taste of making a killing by flipping their houses, and also decimating the social housing stock.

NuLab haven't done enough to reverse this. But many of the conditions that created this bubble were already in place for the 1989 bubble, when the Tories' blatant use of interest rate cuts to win elections also was a contributor.

There are are other ways of distinguishing between the parties (maybe...) but on this particular issue, comparing prices at the bottom of the crash that the Tories accidentally caused to prices now is a bit of a red herring.

[right_freds_dead]

true. the tories were bad, but new labour havent done much better. which is a let down.

the recent boom happened on labs watch. and they almost encouraged it. which is sad.

but i hate to see the tories painted in a 'bastion of the priced out' manner. as you know as soon as they get in, they will also prolong this for their own benefit. as per usual.

tories - you cant trust em.

[Rain'ard]

I think there is plenty of blame on both sides. I'm unimpressed by Nulab's record on housing, and their continued destruction of pensions did a lot to encourage the BTL craze.

On the other hand the Tories abolished ASTs to make landlording easier (in the process creating the conditions for BTL). They flogged off the country's council housing stock as a bribe to the working classes, in the process giving a generation a taste of making a killing by flipping their houses, and also decimating the social housing stock.

NuLab haven't done enough to reverse this. But many of the conditions that created this bubble were already in place for the 1989 bubble, when the Tories' blatant use of interest rate cuts to win elections also was a contributor.

There are are other ways of distinguishing between the parties (maybe...) but on this particular issue, comparing prices at the bottom of the crash that the Tories accidentally caused to prices now is a bit of a red herring.

AST has not been abolished by anyone. It was bought in by the Tories to so redress the balance of secured tenancies. So they could throw people onto the streets, so more profits can be made

[nimmmm]

The old Council owned system was open to serious abuse with Councils not collecting rent as a vote winner. I for one am glad that the old system has gone, and Housing Associations are now in charge. They are far more efficient.

I generally agree that there is a lack of affordable housing, and that the government should be doing more to tackle this, but it is hard to see how they could do it directly without making a total hash of it, or spending far too much money.

The housing bubble will surely pop of its own accord, and that will get FTBers back on the ladder.

[Magpie]

AST has not been abolished by anyone. It was bought in by the Tories to so redress the balance of secured tenancies. So they could throw people onto the streets, so more profits can be made

Sorry yes, I wrote it the wrong way round. I meant they introduced ASTs in the place of secured tenancies to favour their property-owning mates. Something needed doing to revise that law perhaps, but they threw the baby out with the bathwater and transferred all the power from the tenant to the landlord, without any accompanying responsibility. Without that change, BTL would not be feasible in the same way as the landlord would not be so free and easy about bringing tenants in and kicking them out at the drop of a hat.

[laurejon]

I am not in favour of housing associations!!!.

They charge market rents for what was already in public ownership, the difference between the market rate, and the rate the tennants can afford is made up in Housing Benefits financed by local taxpayers through the Council Tax.

As a taxpayer, I take offence in being told Council Housing is costing money to run, when the houses were long since paid off, seeing the army of Council Staff kept on in the admin department despite having no houses to manage, and the housing associations formed out of ex local authority managers charging commercial rents on properties purchased at Tony Crony Discounts only to be subsidised by the local taxpayer.

Council Houses, had always put in a safety net for those in society who could not keep their heads above water. For sure some may complain, and say tough luck, but whatever happens we will have to subsidise them and the cheapest option was the retention of council housing.

[Rigsby]

If anyone is young enough to remember 1995, or can find a property paper published in 1995 they will see that a three bed semi was averaging £50,000.

Under New Labour that same property now costs £350,000

Is that £50,000 house in 1995 the same one that was £150,000 in 1989. You know, when the tory scumbags were in charge of the last boom and bust and negative equity farce.

New Labour & Blue Labour, both a sack of shite...

[Rain'ard]

The old Council owned system was open to serious abuse with Councils not collecting rent as a vote winner. I for one am glad that the old system has gone, and Housing Associations are now in charge. They are far more efficient.

I generally agree that there is a lack of affordable housing, and that the government should be doing more to tackle this, but it is hard to see how they could do it directly without making a total hash of it, or spending far too much money.

The housing bubble will surely pop of its own accord, and that will get FTBers back on the ladder.

The housing associations are not in charge particularly when it comes to allocations. You have to apply to your local government housing office, including part buy

[nimmmm]

I am not in favour of housing associations!!!.

They charge market rents for what was already in public ownership, the difference between the market rate, and the rate the tennants can afford is made up in Housing Benefits financed by local taxpayers through the Council Tax.

As a taxpayer, I take offence in being told Council Housing is costing money to run, when the houses were long since paid off, seeing the army of Council Staff kept on in the admin department despite having no houses to manage, and the housing associations formed out of ex local authority managers charging commercial rents on properties purchased at Tony Crony Discounts only to be subsidised by the local taxpayer.

Council Houses, had always put in a safety net for those in society who could not keep their heads above water. For sure some may complain, and say tough luck, but whatever happens we will have to subsidise them and the cheapest option was the retention of council housing.

I respect your position, but I very much doubt that the retention of council housing was at all the cheapest option. Given the cost of bureacracy in the local authorities, the cost of maintenance, and the political shenannigans which went on with Council Housing rents, together with the cost of upkeep of properties, the cost via Council tax was extremely high.

With the current system, those who can afford to pay, do, and those who cannot are paid for by subsidies from the state.

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

Who was the real Home Owner`s friend ?

Homeowners have seen the greatest annual real rate of increase in house prices under Ted Heath's Conservative Government between 1970 and 1974. During his term in office, house prices in the UK rose by an average of over 13% per year in real terms (i.e. after adjusting for retail price inflation). Coming a close second has been Tony Blair's current Government where the real annual increase in house prices since 1997 has been just over 10%. Homeowners saw the slowest annual real rate of increase in house prices under Harold Wilson's Labour Government. Annual house prices actually fell in real terms by 13% between March 1974 and April 1976.Home ownership has risen from 45% in 1964 to its current level of 70%

Forty Years Of House Prices

You don’t have to be a mathematical genius to see that average income as a proportion of house prices is poles apart to what it was in 1964. We can now buy many more loaves of bread and even pints of beer on our salaries than we did in 1964 but we are worse off in terms of house price affordability.

Thatcher The Architect Of Cheap Housing

1984 my property 44k

1988 my property 120k

I would have been unable to buy my own property in 1988.

[RichM]

I get the impression that Thatcher was v keen on markets (you don't say! ), therefore the rationale with ASTs was that there was then an impetus for developers to build flats, develop brown field sites, etc etc, as they would get a decent yield back.

The current boom HAS generated more building than we've seen for a while, which might not be helping build houses/homes, but will certainly create enough retirement homes for all those boomers!

What Thatcher also should have done was overhaul the planning system. That would have allowed the degree of building to suppress prices to some extent. Sadly that Judas Heseltine came along and did her in. A truly sad day in UK history.

Either way, you're missing the point - bubbles are created by excess credit and a bubble mentality, not a shortage of supply, not really. And I wouldn't trust the council to organise a p1ss up in a brewery.

[Realistbear]

There is a world of difference between Gordon's Miracle Economy and the value based economy of Maggie. Maggie would never have foisted ten years of HPI and MEW based on borrowing and massive levels of debt to pull off a "miracle." Maggie recognised the importance of reward for effort and you work for what you get. Gordon has tried to con us into believing we become wealthy through borrowing and having constant HPI to keep the MEW bandwagon rolling.

Its reality vs. fantasy. Fiscal responsibility vs. Economic Miracles.

Edited May 20, 2006 by Realistbear

[JustYield]

try naming one GOOD thatcher policy that stands today ?

40% higher rate tax? Except now it catches half the working population.

They're all thieves and they prey on an ill-educated electorate. This forum at least is an example of some free thinking.

Thatcher would be absolutely disgusted at the poor value for money the British citizen gets these days.

When are you guys in the UK going to hit the streets and demand an honest days pay for an honest days work that covers the cost of an honest man's standard of living?

JY

[laurejon]

I respect your position, but I very much doubt that the retention of council housing was at all the cheapest option. Given the cost of bureacracy in the local authorities, the cost of maintenance, and the political shenannigans which went on with Council Housing rents, together with the cost of upkeep of properties, the cost via Council tax was extremely high.

With the current system, those who can afford to pay, do, and those who cannot are paid for by subsidies from the state.

The Council still have a housing department, yet even bigger but no houses. So they made a job up, whereby they allocate the houses, make a meal of it, factor in political correctness, and then sit on the paperwork for five years.

The maintenance used to be carried out by a directly employed personel who were dedicated to the task, had a job for life, were happy with their lot, carried no overheads such as plush offices to house the generals, and just got on with the thankless task. After a couple of decades on the tools, they became foremen and had a rest before retirement, they were experts in the field, knew the ropes, and knew the culprits who constantly vandalised their properties.

Today, its carried out by teams of highly paid managers, managing a single man and a van, who will work till he finds a better job, has no interest in what he is doing, has limited skills hence the reason he has to work for a housing association instead of getting industry standard wages. The remaining council houses are worked on by friends of the Councillors, who are all members of the local freemasons, are the only ones allowed to tender, and charge exhorbitant prices in return for handing some back in brown envelopes.

The current system stinks, I could go on, but I wont else I will get so angry it will spoil my day :-)

I myself lost a lot of money under Margaret Thatchers session, however like most I can sit down and on reflection can see that it was my own fault.

It was me that lied about how much I earnt to get the biggest mortgage I could, it was me that thought the market only went up, forever, and it was me that enjoyed lashing it up in London on the weekends.

She managed the economy, reacted to market conditions, we were the fools, not her.

Interest Rates had to go up, if they had not, we would have had exactly what we now see today. Had the conservatives remained in office, we would all be a heap better off. We would not be looking at our kids today, holding our hands on our heads and asking, WTF are they going to do to earn a decent living, where are they going to live, and what does the future hold for them having to compete against the third world.

[Robbrent]

If anyone is young enough to remember 1995, or can find a property paper published in 1995 they will see that a three bed semi was averaging £50,000.

Under New Labour that same property now costs £350,000

The Tories are truly the party of cheap housing for all, not just those with contacts to the Rich and Famous passing down dodgy loans in return for peerages and favours.

Next Election, you decide, 50k houses for your children, or 600k houses for your Government Employees.

What utter and complete tosh!

They started the ball rolling do you not remember the Lawson boom!

The council house point is good, whilst only 5 % was sold off, it was the best 5 % they then stopped building and more importantly changed the rules for getting public housing, which meant that normal working people were not eligible like the old days, thus the estates turned into sink estates, and the market was flooded with people who had no other choice.

Don't hark back to a party that was just as corrupt and incompetent than the one we have today, and in many ways laid the foundations for the economic disaster that is looming over us all now

[laurejon]

I hardly think the Conservatives could be compared to this mob of idiots.

Corruption and Fraud, are you seriously trying to draw a comparison to the sale of Harrods to the murder of 250,000 innocent women and children in a phoney Toney war.

Or maybe its the Cash for Passports you would like to discuss, or is it the Cash for business, or Cash for Peerages, or is it Loans for Mortgages?.

The foundations for the destruction of the UK came the day Bliar took office, flew in the Chinese President (Another war criminal, and violator of human rights) and then promptly flew off to the US to get his orders from George.

Tax and Spend, Old Labour, Champagne Socialists Lining their Pockets with the Working Classes Money.

Prescott, being paid to do nothing is for most an Icon of what New Labour are really about.

[teddyboy]

Torn between Laurjon and RFD here

I think it is fair to say that NuLabour have done a shyte job of running htis country (and IRAQ). We know from history that the Conservatives did some very bad things, but why do we not say that NuLabour have done very bad things?

I know that everyone blames Thatcher for allowing a BUST after a BOOM. But was it her fault? History shows there is always a BUST after a BOOM. As Laurjon has just pointed out a few posts above, he was caught up inthe houses always rise BS. And I agree 100% with him that Thatcher HAD to raise IR very much in the same was as America is doing now. 1%>5% in 18 months!

Thatcher had the same problem Crash Gordon has created but at least she got off her "rse and did something about it! These muppets are just hoping it will go away

The difference between Thatcher an BLIAR is obvious. It is also the one that makes me sooo F*CKING ANGRY :angry: The Conservatives had LOTS of sleaze, far too much in such a short time. But one thing I would say about Maggie, she had the balls to get rid of them! What does TB do? Sacks 1 minister for a major F*CK UP and cried his f*cking eyes out when he does it!!!!!!

What a f*cking panzy!!!

I would sooner have the Conservatives making mistake and rectifying them, than these muppets either LYING, BRUSHING IT UNDER THE CARPET or doing F*CK ALL about it! The deciept from this Government is what makes me despise them!

I would just like to say I have always been Labour, never voted Conservative in my life. But I have to say, David Cameron handled the Labour sleaze in a very professional manner. He stayed out of it and let them dig their own grave. None of the childish politics we were used to. I think they have a real chance of getting elected with this guy.

We know we CANNOT trust NuLabour. We know NuLabour have pissed a lot of money up the wall GOLD RESERVES/PENSIONS/3G/NHS/MILLENIUM DOME and major balls ups IMMIGRATION etc. I know I can NEVER trust these muppets again. I might take a risk on Conservative as I CANNOT take the risk of these F*CKING UP OUR COUNTRY!

TB

[pricedout]

Laurejon

Whilst I agree with some of what you say, you clearly no little if anything about the workings of local authorities.

When the housing stocks were transfered to housing associations, the maintenance personel and administrative personnel were also transfered.

The average housing officer at a housing association earns peanuts (mind you most that I have met have been somewhat less than dynamic).

The LA I work for does not have any housing stock or maintenance personnel, with the exception of three tradesmen who maintain the various aged and dilapidated offices, our depot and some small sewage treatment plants/pumping stations that were retained when the housing stock was transfered.

Intersetingly the transfer of the stock generated a substantial capital sum for the authority that resulted in it attaining debt free status and allowed a variety of projects to go ahead without any rise in the Council tax.

Leisure centres etc have been treated similarly and are now run by private enterprise, as are waste collections, grounds maintenance, cemeteries and burials etc etc etc.

In all the council has reduced its no of employees from 600 to approx 300 in 5 years.

If you are going to rant on about councils at least do a bit of research before guffing on.

[laurejon]

You make some good points there.

Not least, how many times has Blair sacked someone, and we all applaud then he hires them back in to the fold when its all calmed down

Blunkett, Campbell, and Mandelson, to name a few.

Rotten to the core...................."Ive got the foremans job at last, the working classes can kiss my ar3se"

Never a truer word said.

[Robbrent]

You make some good points there.

Not least, how many times has Blair sacked someone, and we all applaud then he hires them back in to the fold when its all calmed down

Blunkett, Campbell, and Mandelson, to name a few.

Rotten to the core...................."Ive got the foremans job at last, the working classes can kiss my ar3se"

Never a truer word said.

And as for the Tories Aitkin, Archer toname but a few, they are all at it, power corupts and all that

[MOD]

Funny thread.

It seems to me that the tories of then and Labour now are the same. All that matters is trying to keep people happy in the current time so they keep voting for you. Any problems blame them on the old government no matter the time difference. No one wants to change anything for the better because it takes too long and when it is finally realised someone else will be in charge and take the glory.

The botching up of the investment in the NHS and education is very sad. As this seemed to be done for the good of the country and the investment I am sure was supported by all.

House wise. I think the relaxation on borrowing has spurned this bubble on to such extents. And maybe this has changed the housing market paradigm like some people have said?"?"

Probably not though.

[trompe le monde]

It seems to me that the tories of then and Labour now are the same. All that matters is trying to keep people happy in the current time so they keep voting for you. Any problems blame them on the old government no matter the time difference. No one wants to change anything for the better because it takes too long and when it is finally realised someone else will be in charge and take the glory.

agreed. With oldLab and the tories, you used to know what they stood for.

Tories - Free market economy and personal responsibility and devil take the hindmost. Old labour - 'tax and spend' and welfare.

Despite their Nulab moniker, they are doing exactly the same as old lab, and borrowing to the hilt to it, while brainwashing the rest of the UK to do the same. Starting the (50% target) student population off in life with massive debts is in my opinion one of the most despicable social experiments ever conceived. What gets my goat is the hypocrisy that nuLab pretend they're doing you a favour as they sell you down the river. At least with the Tories you just assumed they'd screw you if you didn't keep moving - at least that keeps you sharp - much healthier IMO! Did people suffer as a consequence - of course, but they also will when the nulab miracle economy crashes, and will maybe end up much worse.

I think this new touchy feely tory initiative is a mistake, IMO they need a different and maybe more hardnosed 'brand' to nulab as sentiment moves away from teflon Tony.

TLM