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Has The Housing Bubble Changed Your Entire Outlook?

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Although I've always been a fairly anti-consumerist bloke, even before I knew what anti-consumerism was (was never into fashion, or accumulating stuff for no real purpose, being sensible with my money) I think the housing bubble situation has turned me in recent years in to an anti-consumerist extremist.

Once we've saved enough there's a good chance we'll just jack in graduate-level, workload heavy, stressy jobs go to my home region where the same sort of house can be bought for getting on for 100k less, have few living expenses, and just live more like chilled-out hippies.

Combine our part-time business which we've been using to get extra savings with 'irregular' non-taxable work (peddling the odd bit of second hand stuff now and again) so as to legitimately put as little money as possible into a system I've come to utterly detest far more now as a hard working chap who goes to work in a suit than i did as a scruffy teen listening to anarcho-punk records.

Have you had your entire attitude to life, society, the world, your life, whatever altered significantly by the bubble?

Edited by CrashedOutAndBurned

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I'd say Gordon Brown has changed my entire outlook. Am am now far more oriented towards making money than I was before.

Brown's low interest rate miracle economy has seen to it that my wage needs to double for me to be able to afford a home.

Brown's pensions raid has seen to it that my retirement income will be virtually non-existant and therefore I need to seriously up my earnings to have a decent retirement or work 'till I drop.

Brown's willingness to dish out free monmey to people who don't need it, just because they have kids, while giving nothing to people who desparately need some financial help, because they don't have kids, while taxing the latter to pay for the former, has seen to it that I seriously need to improve my earnings or I'll be existing purely to work to fund other people's lifestyle choice.

Brown's presiding over the most scandalous inflation fiddle in the history of fraud has seen to it that I, again, need to find a way of inflating my earnings in line with living costs, not the spurious 2% that we keep hearing about and that my employer so proudly proclaims is less than the 3% wage rises that I get.

In a nutshell, Brown is breeding a nation of people obsessed with nothing but money, because we have to be to afford to live under his disgraceful policies.

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Although I've always been a fairly anti-consumerist bloke, even before I knew what anti-consumerism was (was never into fashion, or accumulating stuff for no real purpose, being sensible with my money) I think the housing bubble situation has turned in recent years me in to an anti-consumerist extremist.

Once we've saved enough there's a good chance we'll just jack in graduate-level, workload heavy, stressy jobs go to my home region where the same sort of house can be bought for getting on for 100k less, have few living expenses, and just live more like chilled-out hippies.

Combine our part-time business which we've been using to get extra savings with 'irregular' non-taxable work (peddling the odd bit of second hand stuff now and again) so as to legitimately put as little money as possible into a system I've come to utterly detest far more now as a hard working chap who goes to work in a suit than i did as a scruffy teen listening to anarcho-punk records.

Have you had your entire attitude to life, society, the world, your life, whatever altered significantly by the bubble?

Yes.

I've decided to give up my middle management job, find an unemployed chav with some spare sperm and breed ten illegitimate children. Then I can live off the state in a nice council house and recoup some of the money I've paid to the government over the last ten years for which I've had nothing in return.

It's just taken me a lot longer to catch on than some of the girls I went to school with who made the right career move from square one by getting pregnant at 15.

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Yes.

I've decided to give up my middle management job, find an unemployed chav with some spare sperm and breed ten illegitimate children. Then I can live off the state in a nice council house and recoup some of the money I've paid to the government over the last ten years for which I've had nothing in return.

It's just taken me a lot longer to catch on than some of the girls I went to school with who made the right career move from square one by getting pregnant at 15.

Sadly society rewards those who take from the economy, & punishes those who contribute to it with ever increasing taxation, & indifference.

Needs to be the other way around. Make people work to earn their benefits, even if its just picking up litter off the streets, stop handouts to young mothers, & help the people who contribute to the economy, rather than those who just drain it.

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Although I've always been a fairly anti-consumerist bloke, even before I knew what anti-consumerism was (was never into fashion, or accumulating stuff for no real purpose, being sensible with my money) I think the housing bubble situation has turned in recent years me in to an anti-consumerist extremist.

Once we've saved enough there's a good chance we'll just jack in graduate-level, workload heavy, stressy jobs go to my home region where the same sort of house can be bought for getting on for 100k less, have few living expenses, and just live more like chilled-out hippies.

Combine our part-time business which we've been using to get extra savings with 'irregular' non-taxable work (peddling the odd bit of second hand stuff now and again) so as to legitimately put as little money as possible into a system I've come to utterly detest far more now as a hard working chap who goes to work in a suit than i did as a scruffy teen listening to anarcho-punk records.

Have you had your entire attitude to life, society, the world, your life, whatever altered significantly by the bubble?

Yes. I have never wanted to be as detatched from the system as I do now. The trouble is, if you aren't a homeowner, have no equity, minimal savings, how do you downsize if you were never "upsized" in the first place?

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i do beleive people should work one full day for 1 weeks benefit. it should not be given over for free.

they could be used for anti vandal work. clearing up grotspots and fixing up public footpaths.

they will be able to sign on at the same time as the work day. once a week. 46 weeks per year.

i really cant see why this isnt a policy. i dont think its healthy to leave them for months on end on auto payments.

i have been unemployed once and i would have been happy with this kind of exchange.

+ it benefits the rest of society instead of wasting them.

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Yes, the "bubble" has changed my outlook - see my post in "What do you like about renting?" (Post #24)

I'm disillusioned with GB in general, now. It seems to me we get a fairly low quality of life (crime, terrible traffic, litter, HPI) in exchange for a highly stressful and VERY expensive outlay (in terms of working hours, taxation, charges, etc.)

I'm going to head off round the world for a year, spending less than the charges involved in buying a house, never mind the stratospheric "value" of the place to start with.

And when I return, I may have a fresher, more optimistic view of this country. At least house prices will have slumped!

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Interesting thread. Yes - if I had been able to afford it I would have had my own place for years now and would not have met the extraordinary bunch of people I've had the pleasure and occasional displeasure of living with in a big house-share. I would never have thought about what banks were or what debt was. Having come from a relatively privileged background, not being able to buy a place has given me a taste of what it's like to be excluded - to have my opportunities restricted through no fault of my own. Like you, COAB, I wasn't materialistic to start with (probably a self-selecting group on this board - if we were materialistic we would have mortgaged our very souls to buy like so many have) but I'm now quite anti-consumerist and think it's all a big trick to keep our minds off things like a) the feeling of emptiness that descends upon us if we stop shopping/worrying about whether we need a new kitchen, b. the fact that our governments are killing people left, right and centre and, well, a) and b. again, really. Humans need to give their lives meaning and consumerism seems to be a peversion of that instinct.

But one of the nice things about being excluded is that you get to watch from the outside. My impression of the States is that most Americans are good children, their infantilism revealed and reinforced by their big fridges, their huge orange/milk cartons and massive cars, and that a deal is done whereby they shut up and consume and in return they get more shiny things and nice pats on the head and don't get ******ing dragged off in the middle of the night to be tortured and left for dead in a ditch (anyone else catch that report about torture by the Chicago police this week - yikes). Anyway, yes, my point being that we're becoming like them. I have heard some of the people that I respect most in the world say things like 'I've just GOT to get a new kitchen' when they have a perfectly good kitchen. Adults in a pet about their kitchens and their cars - it's all so camp. And people seem to have adopted a sulky, surly, infantile attitude towards authority - the government are nasty mum and dad and there's nothing we can do so we won't play/vote.

I'm relieved not to have got caught up in the total insanity of it, which doesn't mean that it's never uncomfortable or anxiety-provoking still to be renting in my thirties but life is supposed to be uncomfortable and anxiety-provoking in some regards. My favourite line to myself when I find myself wanting the cosy pretend-security of a house and the consumerist teat is that the measure of a person is how they behave when they don't get what they want. A very old-fashioned thought but we're probably going to see the truth of it demonstrated on a very large scale over the next few years.

So there's my farthing's worth. I realise that I'm still in quite a privileged position (pretty much free higher education first time round, which led directly to my well remunerated occupation) so it's easy for me to be philosophical. What I'm saying is - Bingley Bloke - I hear you.

Edited by North London Rent Girl

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I was quite materialistic in my teens and early twenties, don't know what happened really, guess I saw the transparency of the whole financial system eventually. I'm an illegal dwelling planning outlaw these days, really angry with the whole planning system and how ******ing unfair it is. The icing on the cake with this months pay slip, £1800 INCOME TAX! Just ******ing ridiculous, couldn't even afford a poxey 2 bed semi round here even if I wanted one. Then I get the arrogant, pompous planning officer telling me my own home on my own land is illegal cause its built in 'open countryside' whatever that means. At the same time the village down the road has doubled in size, prices starting from £210,000!!!!!

****** to it all!

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Although I've always been a fairly anti-consumerist bloke, even before I knew what anti-consumerism was (was never into fashion, or accumulating stuff for no real purpose, being sensible with my money) I think the housing bubble situation has turned in recent years me in to an anti-consumerist extremist.

Once we've saved enough there's a good chance we'll just jack in graduate-level, workload heavy, stressy jobs go to my home region where the same sort of house can be bought for getting on for 100k less, have few living expenses, and just live more like chilled-out hippies.

Combine our part-time business which we've been using to get extra savings with 'irregular' non-taxable work (peddling the odd bit of second hand stuff now and again) so as to legitimately put as little money as possible into a system I've come to utterly detest far more now as a hard working chap who goes to work in a suit than i did as a scruffy teen listening to anarcho-punk records.

Have you had your entire attitude to life, society, the world, your life, whatever altered significantly by the bubble?

Yes pretty much exactly the same sentiment as mine....not sure if it's the bubble, the rise of the chav culture, endless stinging (via taxation) of those who work hard at the expense of the idle or maybe i'm just getting older (mid-30's). Being a 'middle class professional' is the new-age down trodden under-class.....I'm sure I could earn as much being a plumber or brickie and wouldn't be getting stung for £25K PAYE per year.

More and more I feel I want to opt out of "society" and be responsible/answerable to no one but myself. Selling up and being mortgage free has opened my eyes towards that. I am non-materialistic, why I am still doing a stressful proffesional job just to secure enough funds for a means-tested retirement is beyond me. I ought to completely downsize to a frugle lifestyle and become a traveler.

I can understand the appeal of being a gypsy, worlds your home, pitch up near decent school/hospital when you need to. Badly 'cut some trees' or 'lay tarmac drive' for a cash in hand living. When you've completely churned up the pitch with rubbish and sewerage just move to the next middle class scenic site.

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Guest Bart of Darkness

Previously I didn't have much faith in the ability and competance of politicians, now I have none.

A good thing in a way, it means that I kow I can't rely on them for help in a crisis and so must rely on looking after myself instead.

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Lets face it - a part time cleaner who took on a mortgage in 1997 would have more wealth/equity than someone who has been working like crazy for 10 years, saving £150k who hadn't obtained a wealth giving mortgage!

If that doesn't alter your view of what the hell your working so hard for then I don't know what will!

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Yes, we were very materialistic up to the point of 12 months ago when we realised we actually can't afford all this stuff and we are no happier for owning it.

When it comes to my children I must have the safest car seat and the best food available for them but everything else is just rubbish.

I have gone back to work to pay school fees but that is purely to keep the girls away from little tarts and bullies who arrive at school in mummies 4x4 and think the sun shines out of their posterior, strangely enough the old money children are much nicer.

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Funnily enough, a slightly one-banana-short-of-a-bunch cleaner from one of my old jobs does actually seem to live somewhere near us in an identical house. Probably bought in the 80s or something when these plcaes were 20k. Nothing wrong with that - these places are perfect first-time buys for the low paid. Too bad they are now 'worth' £180k+.

Some good responses on the thread. I'm seeing so many jaded people in their 20s and 30s right now. It seems to be catching.

On Noth London Rentgirl's point - yes, people seem to be obsessed with utterly inconsequential things while those in power are up to some of the biggest crimes for generations. A lady I was speaking to recently was whining on about a new kitchen that had cost £5k. I asked if the old one was falling apart.

'No, I just didn't like the style'.

So this woman was whinging on about this £5k kitchen as if it was some evil tax, talking about it as if that's what she was living for.

Nuts.

In a way, though, I'm grateful for the bubble as it's made us look in more detail at what actually makes us happy, what we'd most like to do with the rest of our lives. With no bubble, we'd probably have just trundled along and given our blessing to the whole schizoid mess that is modern living.

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My favourite line to myself when I find myself wanting the cosy pretend-security of a house and the consumerist teat is that the measure of a person is how they behave when they don't get what they want. A very old-fashioned thought but we're probably going to see the truth of it demonstrated on a very large scale over the next few years.

Good point; I wonder how attitudes will change?

In terms of housing what I find hard to take is that those who have not done what you would deem the sensible thing, like saving for a deposit and buying only what you can afford, have actually done quite well, in terms of equity they have amassed, they just have to liquidate it now! :)

Made me realise you have to go with the flow sometimes no matter how mad it seems, just make sure you have an exit plan (as I've heard mentioned on here before). I'm currently not a bull and don't intend to buy.

Then again it's a market you have to know and have a method in playing the market. A flaw is not to see that, which is easy to do as houses are homes and all the emotional hooks that involes. There are always losers in markets. Markets are a 'civilised' way of getting one over on the next person. The higher the stakes the bigger the losers (or winners).

It's a product of too much money slopping around: feed a child sweets containing artificial colours and preservatives and half an hour later, they're charging around the place causing trouble, it's no different.

:)

It's made me cynical of the "dirty old man" that's been feeding them sweets.

Edited by Foobar

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Guest pioneer31

10 years ago and beyond I didn't think about money, and I was happier. I erroneously assumed that house prices rose with inflation (I knew bugger all about housing then) and that one day a modest wage would get me onto the ladder for a modest house.

In the last few years I've been thinking about money 24/7, to the point where I don't want to spend a penny if I can possibly avoid it. Very recently, I've decided to change my ways, jeez, I could get knocked down on the roads tomorrow, then all this manic saving will have been in vain!

I'm not carrying on like this, if houses cost the earth then I'll NEVER buy one in this country.

I think renting is far from ideal but its better than the current alternative - 25 years of being bled dry for a pile of bricks and mortar which cost only a few grand to erect.

I don't want to turn this into a party political rant but in my opinion (and the older members of my family) this is partly thanks to Labour.

They have a saying "Under a Labour goverment you PAY"

Yes, Tories are bad enough but Labour ALWAYS do the same thing. Tax and Squander, Tax and Squander until the country is absolutely f***ed.

Edited by pioneer31

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Yes, Tories are bad enough but Labour ALWAYS do the same thing. Tax and Squander, Tax and Squander until the country is absolutely f***ed.

Agreed, labour's policies never seem to make much sense in the end - good intentions and the road to hell, etc. Of course, the Tory's policies of "slash and burn services" and "trickle down economics" - (trickle being the operative word), don't exactly inspire me either.

What I would give for a party that understood long term thinking. Who had the backbone to stand up to our lowest common denominator media, and the wisdom to understand that endlessly meddling doesn't produce better results. This isn't exactly new:

"I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganising, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralisation."

(Petronius Arbiter, 60 A.D.)

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Yets face it - a part time cleaner who took on a mortgage in 1997 would have more wealth/equity than someone who has been working like crazy for 10 years, saving £150k who hadn't obtained a wealth giving mortgage!

If that doesn't alter your view of what the hell your working so hard for then I don't know what will!

it has made me wonder why all the effort. perhaps its time to change my ways. ive certainly cut back on my dedication to work. + ive been spending now instead of saving to hand it over to a boomer. i have given up the hope of a home. by the time this boom recedes (if it ever does) ill be past caring. so it looks like the dream i had a small 2 bed house in the cheap nw countryside has gone for good. that said, i ask. why the hell am i working 60 hours for tat, crammed into a tiny rented bolthole. i would get this on benefits anyway. im begining to wonder why i am bothering. after all. if i tried a pension they'd rob it. i may as well bog it off, dole it up, holiday and get the basic state pension at the end. this at the moment seems a well paid, but pointless treadmill.

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...strangely enough the old money children are much nicer.

Why do you say "strangely"? It has always been that way. People with old money believe strongly in having good manners. People with new money don't - just look at chavs.

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It's ironic that young people put buying a home at the top of their goal list, yet with today's prices you need to have a good career and to get married to afford to get on the lowest rung of the "ladder" in the first place. It's also ironic that the relatively new craze of travelling has swept the nation's youth. Maybe it's just to delay the inevitability that one day they will have to return to Blighty, put down their media studies/psychology textbooks and get a f***king job. Then they have to face the prospect of spending the rest of their miserable lives paying a gigantic loan to a faceless banking corporation that rubberdicked them when times were "good" because their smug baby boomer parents were greedy and bought the flat they were meant to buy in rge first place with their capital gain on their family home in the country. Still... you've got to laugh haven't you!?!?

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But had the Government not promoted the idea, by preaching "The new economy mantra" then most people would not have to buy a BTL as they would be happy that their pensions are safe and in good hands.

The blame for todays mess lays squarly on the shoulders of the Labour Party, they created the climate of greed, live for today F*ck tommorow, and they along with the suckers that took it in will be the ones to pay for it in the future.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, and when it comes it is going to be one hell of a mess.

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This thread has possibly got some the most sensible down to earth views I have heard

on this site..........

However, governments rarely take note of popularist views &

is it not an almost raging certainty that;

1) house prices are going to drop a bit

2) wages will steadily increase for about the next fifteen years

3) average earners at this point will be able to afford to buy an average price house

4) house owners at this point will start to ask more for their houses

5) wannabee homeowners will pay more to get a house

6) here we are again

What I might do is save all these threads & just re-post them all in AD2020 where I am fairly certain all views will re-apply!

I hope so 'cos by then I will have retired, sold my house, bought a camper van & be chasing the sun the world over.

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The blame for todays mess lays squarly on the shoulders of the Labour Party, they created the climate of greed, live for today F*ck tommorow, and they along with the suckers that took it in will be the ones to pay for it in the future.

oh and that was nothing to do with thatcher selling of all the council homes and not building new ones.

new labour are now proving just as bad, but it makes me sick that people like you offer up the tories as some hero to the solution, when the fact is it was their short term plans that have materialised into a social housing shortage.

what did the tories think of tomorrow when they sold our housing stock off.

they didnt give a crap. and they wont ever.

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oh and that was nothing to do with thatcher selling of all the council homes and not building new ones.

new labour are now proving just as bad, but it makes me sick that people like you offer up the tories as some hero to the solution, when the fact is it was their short term plans that have materialised into a social housing shortage.

what did the tories think of tomorrow when they sold our housing stock off.

they didnt give a crap. and they wont ever.

I agree with yuor views of the tories. If and when they get into power again they will lower taexes and give the rich the fruits. They will give the middle classes just a little extra. BUT they will starve schools, hospitals, local centres, spend on defence and get on boards of big companies and take huge consultancy fees.. Most labour MP's do this also but to a lesser extent.

At heart I am a lbaour supporter but even I hate what they have done. Invade Iraq illegally, criminalise otherwise law abiding people with stupid laws whilst leaving the worst offenders free to roam. And if you are a parent they interfere when it suits them e.g. they will give your daughter contraception and even an abortion without telling you or asking for yuor consent..BUT if they dodge school YOU will be held responsible and go to jail. Couldn't happen anywhere else could it

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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