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Redtony

Estonia Properties/development

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Hi, I am considering investing in estonia Parnu in a new complex being built by a british company based in Isle

of Wight.

The company are called Churchill properties overseas and the the site that I may or MAY NOT go through with

can be found http://www.churchilloverseas.com/content.php - I can no longer find the complex on site but if you go to http://www.findaproperty.com/agent.aspx?ag...prop&pid=380491 you can find site..

Does anyone know or had any dealings with this company?

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The purchase price is £47,500. To reserve a plot you have to pay £500 (none refundable) and then pay 30% of the amount withnin a 14 days which amounts to £14,250 and then on completion of the project hand over £32,500.

I have reserved a plot and have received the contracts from churchill and feel that I may have made a bad judegement / reasearch - I haven't seen the plot, god knows why i did this, i think its this housing fever that is spreading, forums and hype.

A few things scare me: what if the company goes bust with my depoist? There office is in the Isle of wight. In the the talks with this Churchill real estate they have never advised to seek legal advice before signing the contracts?

Im going over to Estonia next week to see the complex and talk it from there.

I hope this will make other people think real hard before they hand over there money :(

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Redtony,

Like so many people you have done things back to front. Wherever you are considering investing do your research - including a visit to the site and surrounding area, looking at comparables - BEFORE you commit yourself. It's money well spent.

!8 months ago I spent several hundred pounds checking out a development in Canada. After careful consideration decided it wasn't for me. I don't consider I 'lost' hundreds - I saved myself thousands.

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Why did you choose Estonia?

For the same money you could buy in Budapest which is years ahead of Estonia. If I were to invest in Europe it would be Budapest for sure. Not having a dig, just curious.

Ella

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Why did you choose Estonia?

For the same money you could buy in Budapest which is years ahead of Estonia. If I were to invest in Europe it would be Budapest for sure. Not having a dig, just curious.

Ella

Estonia is the new Silicon valley. Alot of UK/EUROPEAN companies are flocking to Estonia as less red tape and tax. One of the easiet countries to buy a property.

Close to Finland/Latvia and seen as a holiday destination. Some of the reasons why i choosed Estonia.

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I have reserved a plot and have received the contracts from churchill and feel that I may have made a bad judegement / reasearch - I haven't seen the plot, god knows why i did this, i think its this housing fever that is spreading, forums and hype.

A few things scare me: what if the company goes bust with my depoist? There office is in the Isle of wight. In the the talks with this Churchill real estate they have never advised to seek legal advice before signing the contracts?

I've been contemplating this country, and also via this - and other - estate agents. Coincidentally, I emailed them an hour ago about regarding their status within the regulatory scheme of things.

This would constitute my first ever property-punt. Yikes.

Specifically why do you think you excercised "bad judgement", other than not taking legal advice?

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Estonia wil be one if not the best real estate targets in Europe. Essentially Scandinavians without the GDP thanks to communism but all that is changing.

A real high tec hub and very IT focused nation.

Im sure you will quadruple your money in 5 - 10 years.

You must do your research on individual property though.

I considered a large new detatched villa overlooking the river in Talin, 3 years ago for £145000. Didnt go for it at the time. Kicking myself.

BTW-Estonia is a much better play than Hungary (reference to above post). For a start the buying infrastruture has a of embedded security and checks. I think all property is registered on a central database with details of title.

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I visited Estonia back in March and Churchill were very helpful. They seem a very nice bunch, but I wasn't impressed with sites I viewed in Parnu. The golf site I visited was a long way from the beach, seemed like it was in the middle of no where. The existing 9 hole golf course looked terrible, though to be fare the snow and ice on the course had just melted, so it'll probably look a bit better in summer. Of the three sites I visited the one I felt had the best potential was by the sea and would have mix of luxury log houses and terraced houses with flat roofs. (I think flat roofs is asking for trouble in a country that is so wet, but that's only an opinion.)

Another, more general concern I had with Parnu is what happens if flights to better summer homes become more readily available. Will it suffer like coastal resorts in UK? Perhaps, from what I could see there was little it had to commend it. I much prefer the more expensive Tallinn as an investment and am likely to join a land banking syndicate shortly.

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I have been looking at Estonia on and off for some time now. I did look at Parnu, but the deciding factor for me not to buy there was the short summer season.

If you are going to be reliant on rental income to cover the mortgage repayments, then this is a big worry.

For all year round rentals, I would look at The Old Town In Tallinn (the capital). It is already quite expensive, so the outskirts would be better IMO.

Good news is that easy jet fly there for a packet of peanuts!!

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In my opinion some of the best deals are to be found in Estonia and Lithuania. Prices in both countries have been rising dramatically and also take into account the strong economic fundamental of economic growth which continues to strengthen, they are both amongst the fastest growth rates in Europe with incomes rising accordingly, although, as everywhere this growth is likely to slow. You should be able to find developers asking for an initial deposit of around 10-15% on signature and the balance due on completion of the project, which is normally a 10 to 12 month cycle

Mortgages are also cheap with rates of around 3-4%, very readily available, the local banks being extremely fast and efficient and they all speak English. In Estonia, you should be able to get 85% loan-to-value, possibly less in Lithuania.

There is no real exchange rate risk when dealing in euros since their currencies are effectively pegged to it, even though it is not clear exactly when they will join the Euro market. They are both well organised and business like with a strong respect for the rules of law and enterprise friendly tax systems

For both countries, I would personally look for something in a cutting edge building with a good location in the business district of Tallinn or Vilnius, ideally with a garage space.

but like most people have commented alway carry out you own research and visit the site and if possible talk to people that have already invested

Hope that helps

Si

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Hi, I am considering investing in estonia Parnu in a new complex being built by a british company based in Isle

of Wight.

The company are called Churchill properties overseas and the the site that I may or MAY NOT go through with

can be found http://www.churchilloverseas.com/content.php - I can no longer find the complex on site but if you go to http://www.findaproperty.com/agent.aspx?ag...&pid=380491 you can find site..

Does anyone know or had any dealings with this company?

Hi,

I also invested in this company but have heard nothing from them in a year and their website has vanished and tel no. does not ring. Does anyone have any information on Churchillsoverseas - has anyone else lost money with them?

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The next silicon valley?

I don't think so. Unless we are talking about implants and stag party entertainment.

All the economic stats I have see ncoming out of Estonia look bad. GDP flat, inflation at 7.5%, retail sales falling like Spain. Industrial production in June slumped. Property prices, according to all the reports I'm seeing, are now slumping....

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I am in Finland. I dont have first hand knowledge of Estonian property but it must surely be already on its way down from what i am reading. Riga in Latvia has had terrible property press this year. Ezyjet are flying into Helsinki from the autumn so i would imagine that makes Tallin less attractive for many Finns who use the ferry to Tallin and take ezyjet to the UK and rest of Europe.

Whats more Finland now seems right at the edge of a slowdown economically which must surely impact property.

Russia is also attempting to control 15% inflation as for example wood exports are tariffed now and car imports via Finland are being slowed down so that there are sometimes 50km!! queues at the border.

On the other hand Estonia is surprisingly wealthy as for example many of the ferry companies to and from Finland to Estonia are actually owned on their side. The baltic three are suffering now but poland is doing ok.

I think we are talking about a generalised euro slowdown coming.

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Reports I’ve been receiving on Estonian property prices are mixed. Some suggest massive price drops, others suggest stability in some sectors and drops in others. My take on it is that the expensive new build city centre flats are the ones that have taken a big hit in value. While prices of property built for the locals (not the F2L crowd) are proving more robust (little change in past year or two.)

Icantbelieveitsnotbutter. I was in Tallinn twice early in 2006 and I was surprised how advanced they were. You could walk into just about any city centre pub, café, restaurant or hotel and use their WiFi. I realise its quite easy finding establishments with WiFi in most large cities, but that wasn’t the case 2 or 3 years ago. Tallinn was way ahead of the game. Still, silicon valley description was stretching the truth somewhat.

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Hi,

I also invested in this company but have heard nothing from them in a year and their website has vanished and tel no. does not ring. Does anyone have any information on Churchillsoverseas - has anyone else lost money with them?

Oh dear! How much did you invest (lose)?

Was Churchill a UK based company? If yes, contact the local Trading Standards office to ascertain if they have an investigations file on the company based on other fleecees like you.

Also, contact the local county court in the area of their ex-office, to ascertain if anyone obtained CCJs against the company. Not looking good for you though. Another reader might know how to find out if there is an official receiver searching for creditors - you need to find out fast to get your claim in, if the company is being wound up (I guess Trading Standards will advise you).

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I think you should go for it and persuade all your mates too, and ramp up the countries property prices and f cuk up the ordinary folks who live there, and then in a few yerars when the crash comes you can moan like shite about losing it all.

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Icantbelieveitsnotbutter. I was in Tallinn twice early in 2006 and I was surprised how advanced they were. You could walk into just about any city centre pub, café, restaurant or hotel and use their WiFi. I realise its quite easy finding establishments with WiFi in most large cities, but that wasn’t the case 2 or 3 years ago. Tallinn was way ahead of the game. Still, silicon valley description was stretching the truth somewhat.

Sometimes these places just miss out a step on the evolution of tech and jump forward as successive and cheaper alternatives appear. It is not uncommon as you travel to find no mobile signal but excellent wi-fi.

There are all sorts of innovations - one I liked, I think it was China, where you vote for the immigration officer as he clears you. The best gadgets in hotels are usually in the far East.

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Hi,

I also invested in this company but have heard nothing from them in a year and their website has vanished and tel no. does not ring. Does anyone have any information on Churchillsoverseas - has anyone else lost money with them?

Hi Alphy

I invested in the Parnu Riverside development with Churchill Propereties in 2006 and according to the details the development was due to be ready in May/June 2007. In 2007 we were notified (after an enquiry) that there would be a slight delay.. and we are still waiting. We have been in contact with them every few months but it is very difficult in getting them to give a straight answer on completion date and what is actually happening, and all the correspondence has been initiated by us :(

They did change their name a while back to Churchill Innovative Solutions, http://www.cisoverseas.com/ so you might be able to contact them through their new website. Let me know how you get on :)

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I've been in Estonia four times over the last 6 years, last time this year.

I think it's very true to say that Estonia is well ahead of us, technologically and in terms of their housing crash.

I travelled around the countryside a lot this year, and was shocked by the number of abandoned developments I saw; particularly the ones further away from Tallinn that represent the more ambitious developments.

There was a newspaper article showing that the price of new builds outside Tallinn in places like Parnu had fallen by up to 42% (and this was in June). One of the hotel staff told me that the banks there are in real trouble and just won't let anyone have a mortgage at all.

I think Estonia has to be seen in a realistic context. It's a very fantastic and special wee country, it's achieved fantastic amounts over the last six years, it's got a great future. But a city centre new build in Tallinn isn't ever going to be worth 15 times the median salary.

Something to be aware of from what I noticed of abandoned developments is the quality of construction. A lot of places seem to be built from 1 foot thick concrete panels, with a grid of holes through them that are used to bolt the panels together with metal plates.

EDIT

Churchill Properties Overseas Limited is active, but with a proposal to voluntarily strike itself off the register of companies. If they owe you money you need to lodge an objection fast!

Edited by mikeymadman

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Granada television are currently investigating Churchill Properties and would love to hear more stories about them. Are people still struggling to get any sort of compensation from them?

If you are interested please contact us at the with the following subject title:

PROPERTY IN ESTONIA: House Price Crash forum

email: homes@itv.com

We would also like to hear any other interesting house/property stories, home or abroad.

Many thanks

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i am estonian and i know lots of people who worked with this guy!

he left country and he lives with the millions in South America probably!

I will put there some articles if someone can read them (estonian language) but 99% you lost your money forever

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I 'bought' a property through these cowboys. I have asked Companies Houses to suspend the 'Strike Off register' move they have processed as i try and recoup some money....luckily i only paid the deposit...but now its the prinicple as it is doubtful if any money is there to recover.

I know soime of the directors moved to another company doing the same business...crazy crazy crazy...

I paid my deposit through a credit card so i am also trying my luck throught the fraud angle...if you don't try...

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I 'bought' a property through these cowboys. I have asked Companies Houses to suspend the 'Strike Off register' move they have processed as i try and recoup some money....luckily i only paid the deposit...but now its the prinicple as it is doubtful if any money is there to recover.

I know soime of the directors moved to another company doing the same business...crazy crazy crazy...

I paid my deposit through a credit card so i am also trying my luck throught the fraud angle...if you don't try...

I have successfully installed a suspension to the strike off with Companies House until December 2008 for Churchill Properties Overseas ltd so that legal advice can be sought. I hope anyone else can use this time to try and find a resolution.

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I have successfully installed a suspension to the strike off with Companies House until December 2008 for Churchill Properties Overseas ltd so that legal advice can be sought. I hope anyone else can use this time to try and find a resolution.

Alpha - I'm a fellow investor and would be very keen to get in touch to discuss further. Am looking at legal options to try and retrieve cash. Please feel free to send me a message

Hope to speak soon

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