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rokinik

Electrical Appliance Testing

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Just a quick question, any help greatly appreciated.

Do landlord provided electrical appliances have to be annually checked by a qualified electrician? Does the appliance have to be labelled as such?

thanks

rokkie

Edited by rokinik

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Just a quick question, any help greatly appreciated.

Do landlord provided electrical appliances have to be annually checked by a qualified electrician? Does the appliance have to be labelled as such?

thanks

rokkie

No regulations regarding electrical appliances are in force. However, it is 'advisable' for a LL to get these checked (normally every 5 years). Some do, some don't.

If you have an electrical appliance which you think may be dangerous, report your concerns to your Landlord or Letting Agent.

They have no obligation to do so, but could undergo severe repercussions if not followed up

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Yes , but only the once intially I believe unlike the gas regs. If its new boxed and supplied no need to test. You can get stickers put on by electrican stating been tested

Edited by mercsl

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Just a quick question, any help greatly appreciated.

Do landlord provided electrical appliances have to be annually checked by a qualified electrician? Does the appliance have to be labelled as such?

thanks

rokkie

The previous replies are wrong.

There are two types of electrical tests required. The first and most important is a 5 yearly periodic report by a qualified electrician which is a report on the state and particularly the safety of the fixed electrical wiring in the property. The report will set out any recommended improvements to the electrics which the landlord would be very silly to ignore (but they can ignore the recommendations if they want to and some of the recommendations may be silly or easily fixed like loose sockets etc). The requirement to have these reports is new, previuosly it was advised, since 2005 it is required.

The other type of testing is specific to your thread question. Portable Appliance Testing (PAT) is required annually and also whenever there is a change of occupancy, ie new tenants moving in (not in the case of sharers taking in a new sharer, but in the case of you moving out completely & someone else moving in).

Regulations are that anyone supplying portable appliances as a part of their business must test them for safety. Your workplace, schools, council offices, residential lets are all covered by this regulation. However PAT testing is fairly simple and can be done by anyone as long as they use equipment that is suitable to their level of expertise (or lack of it).

I do my own PAT testing on the places I rent out using equipment sold by these people:

http://www.firststopsafety.co.uk/mall/info...name=PATCourses

These rules also only became effective last year. I should inform our previous posters who appear to be landlords that they should join a landlords association to hear the up to date rules as they come into force:

I am a member of: http://www.spla.co.uk/ and their annual fee is rediculously small versus the information I have learned from them.

I will also let you know that in my rounds doing PAT testing, I discovered a fridge with a bad earth connection. The fridge could have become live with a live or neutral fault and electricuted a tenant if they touched it. I also found a faulty iron, the plastic was broken near the entry point of the wires & could have electricuted the tenants when they were ironing. I also found that although a toaster wasn't functioning properly, it was safe. The scope of PAT testing is safety, not functionality. If an appliance is faulty, will it be safe for a person to touch it when plugged in? That is what you get from PAT testing.

PAT testing is pretty cheap, so there is no excuse. There is a company (forgot their name sorry) who nationwide does gas certificates and PAT testing on the same visit for about 90 pounds. This is 20-30 pounds more than just the gas certificate.

There are many many landlords (and even agents) who don't know about these rules. Be nice & let your landlord know that you know their responsibility & that you expect them to get the place tested accordingly. There is nothing to compel the LL to prove they've done the periodic testing, but a good LL will be willing to show you the report. PAT testing results in labels being applied to appliances so you should know just by looking whether they've ben tested and when. There is no need to test a new appliance for the first year as the shop has the responsibility in that case.

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Hi, thanks for the information could you provide a link to these new laws/regulations.

http://www.adrs.ltd.uk/periodic/faq.html

"Regulation 4(2) of The Electricity at Work Act (1989) and the Memorandum of Guidance published by the Health and Safety Executive. These require that installations meet British Standard BS 7671 as laid out in The IEE Wiring Regulations (16th edition). "

Note that the IEE regulations were updated as a part of Part P taking effect in Jan 2005, which means that the HSE expects all landlords to comply with the IEE regs as part of Part P from Jan 2005.

"The recommended maximum period varies with the type of premises. For example on a building site it is recommended every three months whereas for a domestic property it is suggested every ten years or upon a change of occupancy (whichever is sooner). "

Note that residential lets aren't a standard property. They are recommended to be checked every 5 years.

Edited by Time to raise the rents.

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Note that all places let to 2 or more people are now considered HMO's:

Electrical Safety

In Houses in Multiple Occupation there is an increased loading on the electrical installation, outlets can easily become damaged. Electrical appliances and wiring are the second most common source of ignition in dwellings.

Action

a full electrical installation test is needed for the whole property every 5 years. The installation needs to be safe and in good working order; however, it is not necessary for it to fully comply with BS 7671:2001 (Requirements for electrical installations. IEE Wiring Regulations. Sixteenth edition), the inspection should be carried out by a competent electrician

from January 2005 remedial work is likely to require Building Regulation approval under Part P, this can be avoided if the electrician is registered with an approved scheme, for example NICEIC's Domestic Installer Scheme and ECA's Electrotechnical Assessment Scheme. It is recommended that this should be a consideration when you engage an electrician.

the council will accept that the installation is in good order and repair if a satisfactory report is received from electricians who can self certify under Part P Building Regulations, are members of certain trade organisations or have relevant qualifications

http://www.bristol-city.gov.uk/ccm/content...836FA2803200C65

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TTRTR, you are wrong. There is NO, I repeat NO, legal requirement to have the electrics checked for a tenant. As a landlord, you must ensure that electrics, and electrical equipment, is safe for use. However, this does not mean that you MUST have PAT testing or anything else. HMO's may vary, as they will vary depending upon your local council. However, standard properties do not need any kind of electrical checks doing.

Oh and "All places let to two or more people are now considered HMOs". What a load of crap! An HMO is a property containing 5 or more unrelated people, and is three storeys or more.

Edited by MrShed

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TTRTR, you are wrong. There is NO, I repeat NO, legal requirement to have the electrics checked for a tenant. As a landlord, you must ensure that electrics, and electrical equipment, is safe for use. However, this does not mean that you MUST have PAT testing or anything else. HMO's may vary, as they will vary depending upon your local council. However, standard properties do not need any kind of electrical checks doing.

Oh and "All places let to two or more people are now considered HMOs". What a load of crap! An HMO is a property containing 5 or more unrelated people, and is three storeys or more.

Mr Shed you are an idiot. You go around in the background of the main forum pretending to be an authority on things.

What is an HMO:

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1164086

A licensable HMO is an entirely different matter and you should quickly wake up to that along with 99% of the rest of the UK.

And a very nice set of links they are, excuse me for sounding repetitive but could you provide a link to these new laws/regulations?

Ignore my advice at your peril. Unfortunately in the UK the govt has decided to allow different councils to regulate many aspects of their own areas. That means that there is no 1 single document that states what a landlords responsibility is.

I attended the training course for the London Landlords Accreditation Scheme (have you done that?) and the opener to the course was a big question from the consultant - how can you do it? He pointed out that Landlords are affected by no less that 72 different acts of parliament and it is near impossible to know everything about every rule that affects landlords.

But don't worry, the courts will let you know when you're in the dock.

I would also advise if you're a landlord to check your insurance policy which may also state as mine does, for every single property I let out, that I am required to have an NIC periodic report every 5 years. No doubt if I were to ignore that clause, my insurance wouldn't pay out in the event of an electrical accident.

And you wonder why landlords have a bad rep, it seems so many think they can just open the door, take the deposit & sit back while the rent rolls in without a thought for the tenants safety.

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Ignore my advice at your peril. Unfortunately in the UK the govt has decided to allow different councils to regulate many aspects of their own areas. That means that there is no 1 single document that states what a landlords responsibility is.

Ok then just supply a link to one single document.

I attended the training course for the London Landlords Accreditation Scheme (have you done that?)

Why would I do that?

and the opener to the course was a big question from the consultant - how can you do it? He pointed out that Landlords are affected by no less that 72 different acts of parliament and it is near impossible to know everything about every rule that affects landlords.

72? there are thousands, you should ask for your money back.

But don't worry, the courts will let you know when you're in the dock.

Eh, what?

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And a very nice set of links they are, excuse me for sounding repetitive but could you provide a link to these new laws/regulations?

Here you go crunchman. A link to the regulations. Make sure you understand that HMO's aren't the same as licensable HMO's. Section 6 covers gas and electrical installations in the property. If you are a landlord and you rent a small HMO, I would get an electrical inspection done now to avoid going to gaol. Maybe you sould also consider joining SPLA which is where I first heard of the rules. www.spla.co.uk

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20060372.htm

Duty of manager to supply and maintain gas and electricity

6. —(1) The manager must supply to the local housing authority within 7 days of receiving a request in writing from that authority the latest gas appliance test certificate it has received in relation to the testing of any gas appliance at the HMO by a recognised engineer.

(2) In paragraph (1), "recognised engineer" means an engineer recognised by the Council of Registered Gas Installers as being competent to undertake such testing.

(3) The manager must—

(a) ensure that every fixed electrical installation is inspected and tested at intervals not exceeding five years by a person qualified to undertake such inspection and testing;

(B) obtain a certificate from the person conducting that test, specifying the results of the test; and

© supply that certificate to the local housing authority within 7 days of receiving a request in writing for it from that authority.

(4) The manager must not unreasonably cause the gas or electricity supply that is used by any occupier within the HMO to be interrupted.

From the SPLA (to stress the definition of an HMO):

New HMO Management Regulations

By The Letting Network

Part of the new Housing Act 2004 provisions require landlords of certain properties to follow a new set of management regulations. Unlike the current RICS-produced code of management for residential property, not complying with the new regulations could bring a fine of up to £5,000 and is therefore much more serious. These Regulations came into force on 6 April 2006.

Licensing will affect a comparatively small number of properties. Mandatory licensing will only affect HMOs with 5 or more occupiers on three or more floors. Additional and selective licensing may be run in some areas but this is at the discretion of the local authority.

The management regulation will apply to all HMOs, except the section 257 poorly converted blocks (where conversion is not compliant with 1991 building regulations and less than two thirds are owner occupied). This will therefore affect a much larger group of landlords and agents. Many landlords and agents may have no licensable properties, but it will be rare for them to have none that could be HMOs.

Part of the secret of understanding the new Housing Act 2004 is to grasp the new definition of an HMO. It is complex and runs to six pages and a schedule. However, for the purposes of the management regulations we are concerned with any situation where there are three or more unrelated occupiers, probably sharing a basic amenity. They could be three friends in a flat, a couple and an unrelated friend in a house, three individuals in bedsit-type accommodation or several other variants.

In these cases, the property (could be the whole of the building or just part of the building) will become and HMO and must, by law, be run according to the Management of HMO Regulations.

The regulations impose a range of obligations on the manager of the HMO including the requirement to display the name and address of the manager and a requirement to have a mains electrical test done at least every 5 years. [Editor's note: The type of electrical test needed and whether the electrician doing the test must be registered under a competent persons scheme (e.g. with NICEIC) is decided by the Local Authority].

The tricky bit for landlords and agents is that today the property may not be an HMO, but tomorrow, when we change the tenants, it becomes an HMO. Properties will drop in and out of being an HMO and tracking whether the regulations need to be complied with at any given time will be an interesting task.

Anytime you want to apologise or thank me for the information you are welcome to.

Edited by Time to raise the rents.

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TTRTR, you are wrong. There is NO, I repeat NO, legal requirement to have the electrics checked for a tenant. As a landlord, you must ensure that electrics, and electrical equipment, is safe for use. However, this does not mean that you MUST have PAT testing or anything else. HMO's may vary, as they will vary depending upon your local council. However, standard properties do not need any kind of electrical checks doing.

Oh and "All places let to two or more people are now considered HMOs". What a load of crap! An HMO is a property containing 5 or more unrelated people, and is three storeys or more.

Any time you want to acknowledge your extreme error on this you are welcome.

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Fair enough....I apologise, I was wrong :) And yes, thank you for the info, I must admit that it was something I was totally unaware of. So, from my brief reading of your links, does that mean that if you have a 3 bed property you must display your name and address somewhere in the property??? Sounds strange...

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Fair enough....I apologise, I was wrong :) And yes, thank you for the info, I must admit that it was something I was totally unaware of. So, from my brief reading of your links, does that mean that if you have a 3 bed property you must display your name and address somewhere in the property??? Sounds strange...

It means if you have 3 people in a place (3 adults, not 2 & a child) it's an HMO now and the HMO regulations have been written as though all of these places are bedsits and the tenants lock themselves in their bedrooms and don't talk to each other. Even a 1 bedroom flat that has 1 bedroom containing say a couple & the lounge turned into a bedroom (not uncommon in London) with 1 adult occupying, is now legally considered an HMO and subject to these regulations.

In short, these regulations oblige the LL to do a hell of a lot more than placing thier name & number in a prominant position in the place. Many of the regulations are completely rediculous for non-bedsit type accomodation and completely ignore the tenants right to quiet enjoyment. I have been told by my council that the ODPM has allowed scope for lenient interpretation for smaller HMO's, but the fact remains that if anyone chooses to, they can fall back on these regulations which impose a much greater standard than most LL's are willing to provide for in smaller accomodation.

My own approach is to cover my safety obligations and the rest I am leaving open to interpretation and I will see how the council deals with it in the next year. If they enforce some of these standards, I will be selling up and the tenants will have to find someone else to deal with their minor problems for them.

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Guest Winners and Losers

I can't see any smoke alarms in my rented house. Is this not a legal requirement by the landlord, or am I confusing myself with Australia (where it is)??

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I can't see any smoke alarms in my rented house. Is this not a legal requirement by the landlord, or am I confusing myself with Australia (where it is)??

It hasn't been a requirement until now, but describe your rented place & number of occupants for an answer as it only applies to certain places now.

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Guest Winners and Losers

It hasn't been a requirement until now, but describe your rented place & number of occupants for an answer as it only applies to certain places now.

3 bed terrace on 2 floors with 2 occupants.

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No smoke detectors are required then. Have another occupant in and that changes with these new rules. But the previous rules didn't require smoke detectors for normal rentals either. I personally have installed smoke detectors in all my places because I don't want weeping Mum's & Dad's coming looking for me!

But why haven't you bothered to buy your own? At 10 pounds for two there is no excuse.

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Guest Winners and Losers

No smoke detectors are required then. Have another occupant in and that changes with these new rules. But the previous rules didn't require smoke detectors for normal rentals either. I personally have installed smoke detectors in all my places because I don't want weeping Mum's & Dad's coming looking for me!

But why haven't you bothered to buy your own? At 10 pounds for two there is no excuse.

Only just thought about it really. It has been a bad month. :unsure:

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If you take your own safety seriously I think it'd be better to have your own anyway (even if there are already SD's in place - for other readers) as relying on others is too easy and we won't be able to blame someone else if we die in a fire, we'll be dead.

This conversation caused me to get up & check my own detectors. What did I find? That the SD's were in the laundry cupboard, the batteries having run flat a long time ago.

I have a single hard wired SD, but what if that isn't functioning properly?

So I put new batteries in them right now and put them back out in their spots. Even though they are recommended to be on the ceiling, I normally put them on nails high on the wall so I can reach them to press the test button occasionally.

But as I found, I've fallen down on looking after my own family. :(

Edited by Time to raise the rents.

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