Going Down In The World...de-gentrification

[Shamus]

A good article from the telegraph:

<snip

It first came from a friend who lived in one of London's edgier inner suburbs. "I think my area is de-gentrifying," he moaned. "There's rubbish all over the place. It's full of cheque-cashing places and pound shops. And I thought it was going up in the world." Then I had a discussion with a colleague who had moved to Bermondsey, south-east London, who cited the introduction of a late-night fried chicken shop as a fateful example of de-gentrification.

We know all about gentrification - whereby the professional classes colonise a previously down-at-heel area, bringing with them coffee shops, juice bars and organic hairdressers - but there must also be de-gentrification. For neighbourhoods, like mortgages, can go down as well as up. And those of us with our life savings in a property are going to be alert to the harbingers of decline: boarded-up windows, shops closing, squalid mattresses left on streets to rot.

Ms Barnes says that the greatest risk of de-gentrification is currently in the "high tide" areas: that is, the districts people where people go when they can't afford their first choice - Hackney, Kilburn, Tooting. These were the areas that suffered negative equity in the recession of the early 1990s and most British cities have such areas. Indeed, some cities haven't made it into the hallowed gentrifiers' club. "Take Hull," says Ms Barnes. "Everyone who makes it there seems to want to move out."

Things to watch out for:

# Counterfeit sportswear being sold from a cardboard box in corner of previously gentrified pub as original clientele starts coming back in

# What bookshop? Five or more bookies

# York stone pavement pilfered during cable-laying works and sold on to pave residents' patios

# Shop window displays consist of star-shaped signs announcing a furious price war on a wide range of little-known lagers

# More than 10 nail bars in a 200m radius

# Local paper leads on "shootings" or "slayings" at least twice a week

# New fried-chicken outlet arrives - now one for every state of the Confederacy

# Men wrestling in the street

# Charity shops staffed by young offenders doing Community Service Orders

>

People are racking up the debt just to buy a property in any area they can afford.

When times turn bad it won't just be negative equity on their minds...

Edited May 6, 2006 by Shamus

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Absolutely.

Some of these 'up and coming hotspots' have shown no signs of coming up in the world at all and many have got even skankier.

All that's happened is economic cleansing has forced well-paid workers into rough areas. The area I live in in is typical of this. It's gone from a normal, very low cost working class area into HMO slumland while prices have quadrupled since the late ninties. For a high rent, we live in the same sort of house that a cleaner from work lives in by herself just down the road.

Worth two people doing skilled, fairly stressful high-workload jobs to live here? I don't hate the area, it's safe enough, not much dangerous crime, but... hmmmm..

[StainlessSteelCat]

Hilarious. I reckon East Ham where I live must be right on the cusp. The council has put a lot of cash into making the high st seem lovely but it's true nature is shining through. We had our first chuggers a few months ago and most of the locals were just looking at them totally bemused.

Plenty of new poundshops and cheap clothing shops but also plenty of skips outside houses being done up/charity shops manned by old ladies (who I presume don't have ASBOs).

Personally I love the area though it's too expensive to buy here. And I'm real glad I didn't follow my Pakistani friend's example and buy a place in Barking a few months ago.

Edited May 6, 2006 by greencat

[mercsl]

Great article. Bermondsey where I live and my BTL's are located is doing really well now, been here ten years and the changes are amazing. Some other areas just won't make it.

[Milkshock]

very funny article, but true. i was in tooting the other week and the sight of rotting matresses in the street was something to behold. i would certainly say that is one area which has de-gentrified in recent years.

Edited May 6, 2006 by Milkshock

[kenclarkesshoes]

Hilarious. I reckon East Ham where I live must be right on the cusp. The council has put a lot of cash into making the high st seem lovely but it's true nature is shining through. We had our first chuggers a few months ago and most of the locals were just looking at them totally bemused.

Plenty of new poundshops and cheap clothing shops but also plenty of skips outside houses being done up/charity shops manned by old ladies (who I presume don't have ASBOs).

Personally I love the area though it's too expensive to buy here. And I'm real glad I didn't follow my Pakistani friend's example and buy a place in Barking a few months ago.

what is a chugger ?

[cocacolalight]

what is a chugger ?

people who have sex in public places.

Only kidding. Charity muggers. Chuggers.

[right_freds_dead]

whats a charity mugger ?

[A Fool & His Borrowed Money]

whats a charity mugger ?

Someone that steals from the gentrified rich & gives to the poor. Aka Robin Hood

?

[Rachel]

Great article. Bermondsey where I live and my BTL's are located is doing really well now, been here ten years and the changes are amazing. Some other areas just won't make it.

when i lived in London i lived on Kipling Street by Long Lane and i loved that area- just a few small quiet council estates with friendly people -then the idiots and artists came along and made it 'trendy'...urgh.

i think all these new flats built in inner cities, like around the wharfs,etc are going to be the slums of the future. Like when all the high rises were immaculate and loved by the people when they were first built-they are now ghastly.

[sighmoon]

Funny, but not really true.

Of the three areas, I only know Hackney, but I know it well. It can't yet become de-gentrified as it was never gentrified. The (just counted 'em) four pound stores on our street have been there years, as have the matresses on the street, though occasionaly they do move aound. There is a house that's boarded up, but it is at least lived in.

Yeah, our local paper is a lot more interesting than the Huntingdon Gazette - each headline could be a certificate 18 film, but that's more interesting than reading about cats stuck up trees. My favourite one is the OAPs home that got raided for vice girls.

I can't see how the article is asserting that with all these 'problems', the only way for the area is down.

On the upside, the area has soul and community; the housing is mostly old and solidly built, statistically, you're more likely to be mugged in Westminster, the restaurants are great, and cheap, there's major shopping 5 minutes walk away, and you can walk into the City in 20 minutes.

Compare that to some newly developed areas, such as parts of the docklands, where there are only two bedroom flats, built out of plasterboard nailed to pine frames; nobody knows anybody else, the nearest restaurants and shops are a car drive away, and you have to change tube / DLR three times to get to work. Despite being crap, these areas are entirely gentrified - inhabited only by people who can raise £300,000+ to live there - these will be the hardest hit.

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

whats a charity mugger ?

One of those (attractive young women, generally) who ask for a few minutes to talk about helping cancer sufferers/the environment etc., but whose real motive is to sign you up for monthly payments to said charity, from which they take a cut.

[Smell the Fear]

very funny article, but true. i was in tooting the other week and the sight of rotting matresses in the street was something to behold. i would certainly say that is one area which has de-gentrified in recent years.

I live near tooting. There have been a handful of murders in the past 2 weeks.

As for fried chicken shops, I remember a great newspaper story from a few years ago. A guy set up his fried chicken shop, but found himself in court being sued by Kentucky Fried Chicken. Why?

He had named his shop Ken's Tuck-in Fried Chicken.

Genius!

[eric pebble]

Absolutely.

Some of these 'up and coming hotspots' have shown no signs of coming up in the world at all and many have got even skankier.

All that's happened is economic cleansing has forced well-paid workers into rough areas. The area I live in in is typical of this. It's gone from a normal, very low cost working class area into HMO slumland while prices have quadrupled since the late ninties. For a high rent, we live in the same sort of house that a cleaner from work lives in by herself just down the road.

Worth two people doing skilled, fairly stressful high-workload jobs to live here? I don't hate the area, it's safe enough, not much dangerous crime, but... hmmmm..

And I saw Kirstyvommit and PhilDICK BRAYING about Elephant and Castle being the "next up and coming" place..... Oh it makes me PUKE. They should be arrested and thrown in jail - key throwm in the Thames. Puke puke puke puke puke.....

[Father Fred]

Elephant and Castle is abotu a Mile from the best paid jobs in the World (the City) and is going to be completely redeveloped in the next 5-10 years. It will be unrecognisable and may prove to be a good buy (or at least a better than average buy).

As for Hackney never being gentrified... their are some lovely(ish) bits of Dalston and South Hackney that have certainly been gentrified - though this doesn't mean all the poor people have quite been forced out. Other bits are still horrid.

[boom_and_bust]

I live near tooting. There have been a handful of murders in the past 2 weeks.

As for fried chicken shops, I remember a great newspaper story from a few years ago. A guy set up his fried chicken shop, but found himself in court being sued by Kentucky Fried Chicken. Why?

He had named his shop Ken's Tuck-in Fried Chicken.

Genius!

Hi,

And another thing ....... I have read at various times over the past decade, in my local press, stories of people being caught on CCTV footage collecting pigeons late at night. It is about a decade that the Chicken Stores have emerged. Makes you think. Consumption of pigeon-meat would be a sure sign of degentrification in my book.

Boomer

[tonification]

some lovely(ish) bits of Dalston

Are you an EA?

[sighmoon]

Are you an EA?

EAs don't call it Dalston, they call it 'lower islington'

[Oxford Howler]

He had named his shop Ken's Tuck-in Fried Chicken.

That's almost as good as the McDonnerKebab shop sign in Streatham - think he was allowed to keep the monicker.

[BillyShears]

He had named his shop Ken's Tuck-in Fried Chicken.

That's almost as good as the McDonnerKebab shop sign in Streatham - think he was allowed to keep the monicker.

In Leicester we have a curry house called "McIndians". The sign in the window says "you've tried the cowboys, now try the Indians".

Hi,

And another thing ....... I have read at various times over the past decade, in my local press, stories of people being caught on CCTV footage collecting pigeons late at night. It is about a decade that the Chicken Stores have emerged. Makes you think. Consumption of pigeon-meat would be a sure sign of degentrification in my book.

Boomer

Many years ago I did eat pigeon a few times. It tastes very different from chicken. Sainsburys used to sell it.

Billy Shears

Edited May 6, 2006 by BillyShears

[Michael]

''# Shop window displays consist of star-shaped signs announcing a furious price war on a wide range of little-known lagers''

Elephant and Castle is abotu a Mile from the best paid jobs in the World (the City) and is going to be completely redeveloped in the next 5-10 years. It will be unrecognisable and may prove to be a good buy (or at least a better than average buy).

As for Hackney never being gentrified... their are some lovely(ish) bits of Dalston and South Hackney that have certainly been gentrified - though this doesn't mean all the poor people have quite been forced out. Other bits are still horrid.

all of Hackney is horrid

[Sledgehead]

Look, it's politically incorrect but oh so simple. Gentrification and de-gentrification involve migrations of socio economic groups across economic boundaries.

Gentrification involves migration of the wealthier, better educated sorts to poorer areas where the population is generally more poorly educated. This will occur when the rich are seeking value. they will sell on to poorer sorts when value has disappeared.

De-gentrification occurs when less wealthy, poorer educated sorts are given access to cheap loans, allowing them to live their bling aspirations by moving to up-market areas. Being badly educated and unaccustomed to loads of money, they spend it like water and take the biggest loans they can find.

The whole thing goes t!ts up when their profligacy catches up with them. Then marriages / relationships breakdown and the public slanging matches, so much a feature of our worst council estates, echo throughout once select areas. It is inevitable.

Amusingly nulabour have actually encouraged this effect. They call it "mixed developments". They seem to believe that a minority of well mannered, better educated, wealthier folk will have an enobling effect on hordes of chavs. How curious.

Edited May 6, 2006 by Sledgehead

[mercsl]

And I saw Kirstyvommit and PhilDICK BRAYING about Elephant and Castle being the "next up and coming" place..... Oh it makes me PUKE. They should be arrested and thrown in jail - key throwm in the Thames. Puke puke puke puke puke.....

the 1.5 billion or so put into elephant says your wrong

[Sledgehead]

the 1.5 billion or so put into elephant says your wrong

Why?

The fact is locations are locations because of PEOPLE, not money. Whether people hate the class system or love it, they will always like living next door to a professor / surgeon / barrister. A multi-millionaire bricky or somebody who boasts about their car just doesn't cut it. the latter are the sorts that move to a gentrified area and are seminal in its de-gentrification. Only the former types can reverse the situation. And you know it.

Edited May 6, 2006 by Sledgehead

[Elizabeth]

Why?

The fact is locations are locations because of PEOPLE, not money. Whether people hate the class system or love it, they will always like living next door to a professor / surgeon / barrister. A multi-millionaire bricky or somebody who boasts about their car just doesn't cut it. the latter are the sorts that move to a gentrified area and are seminal in its de-gentrification. Only the former types can reverse the situation. And you know it.

Your right. The intelligencia is the marker of gentrification... and everytime I have moved into an area, it was a slum, and I couldn't afford to buy anyway, and within 3 years its was gentrified, and I had to move out, because I could no longer afford it. Sucks. Next time I move I am going to put my money down!