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Bears Tell Us Immigrants Have No Money For Property

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Im afraid I havent got the link, I read this over someones shoulder on the train but only got a quick glimpse. (EDIT: I just checked on FT.COM, the article does exist!)

Apparantly immigrants are predicted to buy 170000 Spannish holiday homes this year representing 25% of the real estate market transactions, so no crash there.

About 17 months ago I was fully condemned a lunatic by the usual bears when I revealed multiple examples of new immigrants I know who are enjoying significant incomes. I cited examples of prospering new migrants such as NHS agency nurses making £50k by working 2 positions and where thier partners did the same, car valet firm which earned the 2 new migrant owners £500 each in profit everday, Nigerians letting out thier council house, thier partners letting thier council flat and owning several private properties etc etc.

At that time the bears just couldnt bring themselves to confront the awful truth that these people fresh off the boat were earning significantly more than them.

The bears usally told me I was imagining things and that such immigrants were all 'burger flippers' (thier words). I retorted that 'they (the bears) are the ones not in touch with reality'.

Well, well, well in now turns out they not only own property here but are now investing abroad.

As usual, knowing the world around you is more about taking the trouble to get out there have a look rather than a study of graphs,

Edited by dogbox

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Where to start?

Firstly, I'm pretty sure whatever story you were reading over someone's shoulder will be talking about immigrants to Spain, who are most likely born and bred British over 50's who have had it easy for the last 10 years and not 170,000 people who have moved to England, made a fortune by working 5 jobs and are now buying second homes on the Costa's.

Secondly, I've heard rumours that a question about the spelling of the word 'their' will be attached to the next immigration Britishness test, I assume you'll approve of this.

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Where to start?

Firstly, I'm pretty sure whatever story you were reading over someone's shoulder will be talking about immigrants to Spain, who are most likely born and bred British over 50's who have had it easy for the last 10 years and not 170,000 people who have moved to England, made a fortune by working 5 jobs and are now buying second homes on the Costa's.

I wouldnt be too sure about immigrants new to the UK not buying abroad if I were you. I attend various foreign property expo's and Ive noticed a big increase in the number of recent immigrants attending.

You see, they like taking risk in order to better thier security, whereas the Angl - Saxon wage slave tends to sit on the side lines forever finding reasons not to take life changing risks.

Sorry no graphs or charts, put Ill remind you of this debate in 17 months.

Spell - cheQUE all u like.

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Secondly, I've heard rumours that a question about the spelling of the word 'their' will be attached to the next immigration Britishness test, I assume you'll approve of this.

At least he didnt use "there". That really grates my carrot.

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It's immigrants to Spain:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Main page content:

Immigrants help sustain Spain’s long building boom

By Leslie Crawford in Madrid

Published: April 18 2006 18:09 | Last updated: April 18 2006 18:09

Immigrants are emerging as a powerful new force in the Spanish economy, boosting demand for new housing, which in turn is sustaining the country’s long construction boom, according to analyst reports.

“There is no risk of a property crash in Spain in the short or medium term thanks to new demand generated by immigrants,” says Angel Berges, a partner at Analistas Financieros Internacionales, a Madrid consultancy. Mr Berges estimates immigrants will buy some 170,000 homes in Spain this year – almost one quarter of total demand for new houses.

Spain’s rising divorce rate is another factor sustaining the housing market, with more than one in five marriages now ending in separation or divorce. According to estate agents, the divorce rate is generating demand for about 140,000 new homes a year, because as a rule, judges award the family residence to the wife and children in divorce settlements. Last year saw an 80 per cent increase in divorces to 87,000 after the Socialist government introduced a “fast-track” divorce law. The number of separations, by contrast, fell by about one-third to 51,000 as a majority of estranged couples opted for divorce.

“Property developers are now actively targeting divorcees by building more studios and one-bedroom flats,” says Fernando Encinar, of Idealista.com, a Spanish real estate portal. But the biggest group sustaining the market, Mr Encinar says, are immigrants.

Spain has experienced a huge influx of immigrants in the past six years, as the country absorbed one out of every three new arrivals in the European Union. Since 2000, Spain’s immigrant community has increased four-fold to more than 4m, or 9 per cent of the total population.

An amnesty last year awarded job permits and residence papers to almost 700,000 illegal migrants. According to Fincas Corral, an estate agent, only 16 per cent of immigrants are owner-occupiers, which means that the potential for home ownership among the immigrant population remains largely untapped.

“We expect an important increase in the demand for home-ownership among immigrants over the next five years,” says Mr Berges.

The immigrant factor is good news for Spain’s construction industry, which accounts for one-tenth of gross domestic product and which had been facing the threat of a property crash in an overpriced market.

The extended life of Spain’s property boom has in turn encouraged analysts to predict strong economic growth for this year and the next. Economists at the Instituto Flores de Lemus of the Carlos III University in Madrid on Tuesday forecast economic growth at 3.1 per cent for 2006 and 3.2 per cent in 2007, well above the EU average. The institute also highlighted the role of immigrants in moderating wage inflation and sustaining domestic demand.

Nevertheless, it warned that Spain’s “bricks and mortar” growth model was not sustainable in the medium to long term. It believes economic growth is too dependent on construction and services, “two sectors with low productivity and little exposure to international competition”, the Flores de Lemus Institute says.

High inflation, forecast at 3.5 per cent for 2006 and 3 per cent in 2007, was eroding Spain’s competitiveness and worsening its trade deficit, the institute said. Spain’s current account deficit, the second highest in the world in absolute terms after that of the US, according to the International Monetary Fund, will reach €63bn ($76.8bn, £43.6bn), or 7.5 per cent of gross domestic product, in 2006, from €61bn last year, according to the Flores de Lemus Institute.

The Paris-based Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development is more pessimistic and places Spain’s current account deficit at 8.9 per cent of GDP in 2006 and 9.8 per cent in 2007.

The Flores de Lemus Institute on Tuesday urged the government to adopt urgent measures to improve Spanish productivity, such as labour training programmes and more investment in research and development. It said collective bargaining practices should be dismantled. But the institute also warned that Spain’s lop-sided labour market – with one-third of the workforce on short-term contracts, almost three times the EU average – was also a barrier to increasing labour productivity, as employers had few incentives to train temporary workers.

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Dogbox - all those activities you quote the immigrants making money from are mostly illegal like renting out their council houses.

Thats why all benefits should be abolished.

I have never seen benefits benefiting anyone - only squandered to produce worse results.

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Spain has had massive immigration from Latin America in the past few years.......

Also 500000 new homes a year are being built there which in proportion to the population

is 6 times as many as in the UK

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Thank you LivingTheDream,

Case closed.

No more racist dogma Dogbox.

Teach me to read over peoples shoulders.

However, no racism in my post, just what I see in the real world. Perhaps you dont know many new immigrants. Perhaps you think they really do accept low pay for life.

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all the immigrants i know work in jobs english people won't do or can't do............either very skilled or very low paid .............

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...property expo's and Ive noticed a big increase in the number of recent immigrants attending.

Were they all standing in huddles speaking heathen?

Or did you just know they were recent as they were still clutching their passports?

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Were they all standing in huddles speaking heathen?

Or did you just know they were recent as they were still clutching their passports?

No its much more complicated than that, I talk to people.

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Thank you LivingTheDream,

Case closed.

No more racist dogma Dogbox.

I don't think he is a racist - just a hysterical idiot.

Fantastically stupid post though, he sounds like a bipolar roadsweeper who has been on an amphetamine binge for 3 weeks.

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No its much more complicated than that, I talk to people.

Ah, so you talked to lots of imigrants at the Expos who told you they worked two jobs and planned to buy houses in Spain. But you didn't believe it until you glimpsed an article in the FT that, as it turns out, was completely unrelated to this.

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I thought Spain was already crashing??

Agreed.Have friends near Valentia and they said that it was still going up but NOTHING was selling.So I guess it will all start going down until something does sale.

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Agreed.Have friends near Valentia and they said that it was still going up but NOTHING was selling.So I guess it will all start going down until something does sale.

It's Valencia not Valentia.

The market in Spain is diverse - just as in the UK - but areas that have seen the worse speculation in recent times are coming down and / or are peaking.

As for immigrants in Spain, the British and Northern Europeans represent only a part of the story. There has been a lot of Eastern Europeans moving here - all looking to buy flats with 100% mortgages, then there are the South Americans and also North Africans too. The idea that everyone comes to Spain to retire or to a villa with a pool is far from the reality, even on the Costas.

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