Independent: Employers Prefer Workers From New E U States To Lazy Britons.

[CrashConnoisseur]

'Employers prefer workers from new EU states to 'lazy' Britons':

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/new...ticle361281.ece

Migrants workers from the new European Union states are filling jobs that indigenous UK workers are not prepared to do, but for much lower wages, new research shows today.

Three quarters of employers said they believed European enlargement two years ago had been good for business, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation said.

A survey of 1,000 migrants and employers by the social policy research and development charity, found employers used highly qualified migrant workers for low-skilled and low-waged work. The findings will be seen as confirming the view of the Bank of England that immigration keeps down wage inflation by relieving labour shortages.

[...snip....]

Most of the migrant workers questioned, who were from Poland, Slovakia, Lithuania and the Czech Republic, were legally allowed to live in the UK, although some were working in breach of their immigration status. However one in five was illegally resident in the UK.

Most employers admitted to "bending the rules". One said: "There's times when you do twist it a bit asking]: 'will you work an extra couple of hours', you know, 'nudge, nudge' and so on."

Edited May 1, 2006 by Jeff Ross

[expatowner]

'Employers prefer workers from new EU states to 'lazy' Britons':

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/new...ticle361281.ece

I'm just back from holiday where I read my usual two books per year. One of the books was a Jack the Ripper type of book set in London Edwardian times.

I was amazed at the similarities to today!

Tenants in London were expected to pack into crowded, bad quality places at prices they didn't want to afford.

There was also an influx of people from europe.

Landlords were happy as they had few voids and migrant workers were happy and prepared to work for much lower wages than the indigenous UK workers resulting in social mayhem.

Edited May 1, 2006 by expatowner

[Rain'ard]

'Employers prefer workers from new EU states to 'lazy' Britons':

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/new...ticle361281.ece

I bet they would prefere them from France even more, because the Frence don't stand for this sort of S**t, as we do.

[right_freds_dead]

the kind of firms that would prefer these kinds of cheaper workers are hardly worthy of the word 'employers'.

more like the slave driving, cheapest, nastiest poorly paid 'employers' in dirtbox occupations.

and those kind of peoples opinions. i wouldnt care for anyway.

[Justice]

"Migrants workers from the new European Union states are filling jobs that indigenous UK workers are not prepared to do, but for much lower wages, new research shows today. "

Same bull$hit we hear time and again.

With tax credits even low paid jobs can pay well and i know brits that would do most jobs

Fact is this mass immigration is used to force wages down and all the left-wing type people think they will be OK but as we earn less than the less tax will be paid to feed the left-wing parasites.

it's all going to get dirty in the UK as people will find that they can not even get work flipping burgers

[Rain'ard]

"Migrants workers from the new European Union states are filling jobs that indigenous UK workers are not prepared to do, but for much lower wages, new research shows today. "

Same bull$hit we hear time and again.

With tax credits even low paid jobs can pay well and i know brits that would do most jobs

Fact is this mass immigration is used to force wages down and all the left-wing type people think they will be OK but as we earn less than the less tax will be paid to feed the left-wing parasites.

it's all going to get dirty in the UK as people will find that they can not even get work flipping burgers

Is it me? I don't understand this post, which left wing parasites?

[

Edited May 1, 2006 by wheresmyfoxhole

[Fancypants]

Is it me? I don't understand this post, which left wing parasites?

[

come on... you know... the usual ones! Them that's conspiring to undermine everything that's good and holy about Britain

[SarahBell]

Do immigrants save a bigger % of their wages?

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Shouldn't the headline be 'Employers Prefer Slaves To Lazy Britons'

The depths to which British business will stoop - I've been carrying out some Corporate Responsibility work for a UK company. Needless to say, behind the venear, a total disgrace!!!!!!!!! 10% of staff on sub-min wage (on orders from MD).

By the way, did anyone else hear the interview with Lord Meghnad Desai - on Today, BBC R4, this morning - choked on my cornflakes!

Edited May 1, 2006 by gruffydd

[New Darker Law]

Shouldn't the headline be 'Employers Prefer Slaves To Lazy Britons'

SNIP!

Brilliant thinking.

NDL

[Cinnamon]

Since there are tax credits that subsidise employers now, there surely is 'no need' anymore for a minimum working wage? *smirk*

Does anyone know if immigrants can claim taxcredits too?

[deano]

Foreign workers have no debt to service in the UK. Those with qualifications have no student loan to repay. They will always be able to undermine the bottom line of those already resident in the country.

In many cases people are left on benefits because the money offered does not lift them over the benefits threashold. By this mechanism the state is really subsidising foreign workers by increasing the nations debt externally. Absolutly F****** barmy! init.

[Leodhasach]

The tin hat on it all is Digby "laugh a minute" Jones of the CBI popping up to defend the importation of 100s of thousands of exploitable migrants. That'd be the same Digby Jones who told us we couldn't have a minimum wage because it would cause unemployment. Absolutely shameless.

However, I'm not a racial purity type...I'd gladly let millions from E. Europe in, provided we could send our workshy chavsters in the opposite direction.

[BuyingBear]

I actually feel sorry for these people (though not the jetsetting criminal class), we are sinking to new depths in this country, working and living conditions not seen since the general strike if not the Victorian times, it's even embedded in the architecture.

I see exploitation everywhere, filthy little businessmen and their filthy little officials, most of the Poles I've met are nice, too nice for our system that is already one step ahead of f**king you over.

Mess up the mess they call a town --

A house for ninety-seven down

And once a week for half-a-crown

For twenty years,

And get that man with double chin

Who'll always cheat and always win,

Who washes his repulsive skin

In women's tears,

And smash his desk of polished oak

And smash his hands so used to stroke

And stop his boring dirty joke

And make him yell.

But spare the bald young clerks who add

The profits of the stinking cad;

It's not their fault that they are mad,

They've tasted Hell.

It's not their fault they do not know

The birdsong from the radio,

It's not their fault they often go

To Maidenhead

And talk of sports and makes of cars

In various bogus Tudor bars

And daren't look up and see the stars

But belch instead.

[homeless]

if i was from poland, i would come here to, i could work like hell , live 10 to a room and take money back to get a house and start a buisness.

poles are no more lazy or hard working than brits thats a complete lie, what they are is people on a mission.once accomplished they will go back home to the easier life like brits prefer at home.

what that digby is talking about is trying to get brits to work all there lives like there on a mission too.it just dont happen like that, if it did we would be back to the indentured worker days of the start of the industrial revolution.

all mass immigration is doing is bringing a wealthy country down to the level of poorer ones, this will all carry on till the wages ie the standard of living balances out.And we are starting to see that it wont be them coming up to our level but us going down to theres.

[North London Rent Girl]

Landlords were happy as they had few voids.

And there's the difference that's the difference.

[Wuluf]

all mass immigration is doing is bringing a wealthy country down to the level of poorer ones, this will all carry on till the wages ie the standard of living balances out.And we are starting to see that it wont be them coming up to our level but us going down to theres.

You mean like in the US of A?

Its called competition.. Cant you handle it..????

That comment is a bit rich given that the UK got rich on the backs of other nations.. Give me strength.. !!

[a j]

poles are no more lazy or hard working than brits thats a complete lie, what they are is people on a mission.once accomplished they will go back home to the easier life like brits prefer at home.

There are some interesting stories in industrial history of Polish workers being laid off or ordered to work more slowly in the 1950's because they exceeded the productivity of native workers to such an extent. I'll try to find some references for this.

Homeless, in principle I'd agree with your point but feel there is a factor to consider - immigrants, whether Polish or otherwise, are not a random group from their home country. I would suggest that the Polish immigrants we have in the UK are harderworking and better educated than the average Pole. Therefore likely to be harder working and better educated than the average Brit.

In the business I work in I was having this argument with people two years ago - they didn't believe the stories that HGV driver availability would increase due to Eastern European immigration. They saw drivers who couldn't speak English, were not used to English conditions and had a bad rep (some blatantly forged licenses).

Now we are seeing day rates for drivers decrease - they drivers did lower paid work, learned some English and proved themselves to be decent employees. Their employers paid for them to take the British course (in some cases they saved and paid for themselves). We have just promoted a Polish guy to a junior management position - more to come if they stay.

Look at the young workers in the bar, shops and restaurants. All learning English well - some will stay an compete for the good jobs. Some were tradesmen or partly trained tradesmen - if they stay they will be in demand. Committed hardworking and skilled people always are. There will be an impact on pay rates higher up the food scale, in the same way as pay rates for unskilled staff have eased in the South East.

You mean like in the US of A?

Its called competition.. Cant you handle it..????

Many at the lower end of the jobs market can't handle it, it just the same way they cant handle it in the US.

[Cinnamon]

You mean like in the US of A?

Its called competition.. Cant you handle it..????

That comment is a bit rich given that the UK got rich on the backs of other nations.. Give me strength.. !!

Sadly it is the poor who'll pay the price of 'competition'.

Moreover, your idea that the UK got rich on the back of other nations is not entirely correct. The UK bankrolled the war against Hitler, thus financing the freedom of the entire world. I'm not sure but either there are still loans being payed off from that time, or those loans have only recently been payed in full.

[a j]

Sadly it is the poor who'll pay the price of 'competition'.

Absolutely true - but why put 'competition' in inverted commas? People don't seem to like facing this - the low paid in areas of Britain, including London and the South East, do not compete with immigrants or overseas production. There are a number of reasons behind this - basically coming down to competition.

If immigration is to be discussed at all this has to be discussed openly - politicians and The Sun newspaper won't speak about it - you don't tell your readers and voters that they are uncompetitive.

[Fudge]

The wisdom of Melvin Reder, a pioneer in the analysis of the labor market impact of immigration, should always be kept in mind:

Our immigration policy inevitably reflects a kind of national selfishness of which the major beneficiaries are the least fortunate among us. We could not completely abandon the policy, even if we so desired.

[El_Pirata]

Isn't it incredible how the idea of "nation", with the sense of an extended family with a shared destiny, has been lost from the public discourse? Britain is no longer a "nation", it is just an "economy", in the public discourse of 21st century Britain. If bringing in hundreds of thousands of outsiders will make the economy grow in absolute terms, then it is a good thing. Regardless of the impact on other areas of life. The nation no longer exists, so we have no responsibility those that are priced out of work (or priced out of owning a home), we can paint them as "lazy" or "losers" or "chav". Their only worth is in terms of their usefulness to the economy.

Employers have no sense that they ought to be employing native workers rather than cheaper foreigners because that is ultimately better for the nation. They have no thought for what the impact of their behaviour might have on their community. They act as if they entirely free from the consequences of their actions on their neighbours. Remarkable that this is happening under a labout government.

Perhaps I am feeling this so strongly because I have just got back from my "other" country, Argentina, where for all our faults we have a very deep sense of being a large family. And this despite most of us being second/third generation immigrants from a huge scattering of countries. This is because we get taught to love our country at school, rather than to bemildly embarrassed or even ashamed of it. People might think of Argentina as a failure after the collapse they saw in 2001. But that was in fact our biggest acheivement. Because when things went wrong we got together and got out on the street and made sure they got changed, and now things are going well for us again.

In Britain I fear we do not care about each other enough to protest about something serious. Or we are too worried about losing our jobs, or about how much debt we are in.

*rant over*

[Cinnamon]

Absolutely true - but why put 'competition' in inverted commas?

Because there is nothing to compete about, other than who is poorer. And not even that is true, since everyone who does not earn enough is entitled to tax credits -- meaning that bad employers are being subsidised to run their sweatshops.[1]

In other words, we simply are importing more poor people, who then are (and are likely to stay) all equally poor!

[1] Compare the situation in the US, with Walmart paying their staff so badly that the state ended up handing out Medicaid to working people. Work should at least provide the very basics needed for life -- shelter, food and healthcare!

[a j]

Isn't it incredible how the idea of "nation", with the sense of an extended family with a shared destiny, has been lost from the public discourse? Britain is no longer a "nation", it is just an "economy", in the public discourse of 21st century Britain. If bringing in hundreds of thousands of outsiders will make the economy grow in absolute terms, then it is a good thing. Regardless of the impact on other areas of life. The nation no longer exists, so we have no responsibility those that are priced out of work (or priced out of owning a home), we can paint them as "lazy" or "losers" or "chav". Their only worth is in terms of their usefulness to the economy.

Excellent post.

[a j]

Because there is nothing to compete about, other than who is poorer. And not even that is true, since everyone who does not earn enough is entitled to tax credits -- meaning that bad employers are being subsidised to run their sweatshops.[1]

You seem to regard this as a chase to the bottom. Many job numbers are reasonably fixed in nature - hospitality staff, manual public services etc. The competition for these jobs is often a battle for employers to find decent employees for the tasks in hand. Immigrants often are able to compete with native employees, even with a limited grasp of English, through having a better work ethic, a better level of secondary education and social skills.

Not everyone is entitled to tax credits - you pretty much need children for that. Pity the young, poorly educated young Brit having to compete for McJobs with a Polish worker.

The tax credits argument holds some ground. I know some employers who pay lower wages because they know that the effect of benefits means that there is a section of the workforce who are not particularly concerned about how much they earn. Supermarkets particularly target this sector by being desirable employers in non monetary terms. Benefits in kind such as first access to products approaching their sell by date, and slight seconds are especially attractive to a low income family where an additional £1 per hour on the pay rate means little in real take home pay.

The impact of tax credits is to remove the incentive to find better paid employment, thus we see Polish workers taking some better paid jobs due to lack of local competition.

In other words, we simply are importing more poor people, who then are (and are likely to stay) all equally poor!

For reasons noted above I disagree (unless they have children in large number and develop the same ability to play the system as the natives). We are importing people for in many cases will stay for a few years, accumulate skills and capital and then go home. I've known many people from Spain and Italy over the years who have done just that.

Others will stay longer having found good employment - using their skills and education to best effect.