Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
mikthe20

Landlords Exiting The Market (today's Times)

Recommended Posts

Hmm, I like this bit particularly:

'"Rental yields are diminishing and, in some areas, landlords are now lucky to be getting 5 per cent.” A typical case, Nichol says, is that of an investor landlord with two flats in South Kensington. The first, which has been let for five years, took more than £700 a week in the first year but now gets just £555 a week. His second flat is let for £360 a week. He has decided to put both up for sale.'

:D

(especially chose that bit for HPC, hey, at least I'm honest)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of London landlords are City savvy and they have been reading the recent news about wordwide IR hikes and the catastophic consequences of a dollar collapse. I wonder if we will see a full-on stampede in the next few days?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprised this isn't in the news blog and no-one's mentioned it (sorry if this is a repeat post but I've tried a search. Saw this article in today's newspaper:

The Times: Landlords cash in

From the article:

Stott, at Cluttons, says that that is becoming an increasingly familiar scenario. “It is not unusual for landlords to test the sales market between lets by putting their property on to the market for sale for a two or three-week period before bringing it back on to the lettings market,” she says. The only difference is that now, she adds: “Properties are selling in that short space of time , so they never make it back on to the lettings market.”

The strength of the London sales market is clearly one of the main reasons for that trend. As rumours of a house price crash have proved unfounded, and as City bonuses are back thanks to the strong performance of the financial sector, the prime Central London sales market is booming, with property values rising by as much as 10 per cent over the past year.

Not wanting to be overtly bullish because i'm actually a bear myself, but speaking objectively, how on earth does this article go anyway shape or form to prove that BTL'ers are exiting the market with an impending crash?

It doesn't and saying it does makes you sound silly. Sure it says that some places are selling - but that's the high end places, that are netting millions of pounds AND they are flying off shelves.

If anything this article shows their is still puff left in the super inflated London market. Whatever, i guess the more the bubble grows the bigger the pop which should be interesting when it happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mmm, you do have to be a bit selective don't you.......

"With buy-to-let experts insisting that the outlook for the market is rosy, why are landlords selling up now? In many cases, it is simply a case of profit-taking."

and

"Stott, at Cluttons, says that that is becoming an increasingly familiar scenario. “It is not unusual for landlords to test the sales market between lets by putting their property on to the market for sale for a two or three-week period before bringing it back on to the lettings market,” she says. The only difference is that now, she adds: “Properties are selling in that short space of time , so they never make it back on to the lettings market.”

The strength of the London sales market is clearly one of the main reasons for that trend. As rumours of a house price crash have proved unfounded, and as City bonuses are back thanks to the strong performance of the financial sector, the prime Central London sales market is booming, with property values rising by as much as 10 per cent over the past year."

Bah! Beaten to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the article:

Not wanting to be overtly bullish because i'm actually a bear myself, but speaking objectively, how on earth does this article go anyway shape or form to prove that BTL'ers are exiting the market with an impending crash?

It doesn't and saying it does makes you sound silly. Sure it says that some places are selling - but that's the high end places, that are netting millions of pounds AND they are flying off shelves.

If anything this article shows their is still puff left in the super inflated London market. Whatever, i guess the more the bubble grows the bigger the pop which should be interesting when it happens.

Increasingly I'm being enticed by juicy bear thread titles, only to be bitterly disappointed when I open the link. There's a few on here who could teach Alistair Cambell a few spinning techniques.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It doesn't and saying it does makes you sound silly. Sure it says that some places are selling - but that's the high end places, that are netting millions of pounds AND they are flying off shelves.

If you'd said "stupid" I'd feel insulted, but I assume it is in good humour. It's really quite simple, professional landlords who have been in this game a while (the article cites several that have been rented over 5 years) are getting out. The only reasons I can see is that they see low yields combined with toppy prices (otherwise they'd keep them for capital appreciation). It's not just one or two as in the article.

We've been told that landlords have replaced FTB's in propping up the market. If landlords leave then there's nothing to support the market.

Expert investors getting out of an asset en masse is usually a sign of the top of that market being reached - no matter what the asset. Novice investors/speculators may well still buy even if the experts are leaving.

Edited by mikthe20

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the article:

Not wanting to be overtly bullish because i'm actually a bear myself, but speaking objectively, how on earth does this article go anyway shape or form to prove that BTL'ers are exiting the market with an impending crash?

You're new here aren't you???

(See also comments about spin.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Increasingly I'm being enticed by juicy bear thread titles, only to be bitterly disappointed when I open the link. There's a few on here who could teach Alistair Cambell a few spinning techniques.

I don't see how the title I gave differs from the story - the story says landloards are leaving the lettings market (only way they can do that is by selling). That's all I said in my original post. Indeed, I was very careful not to add any personal comment to my original post just so I wouldn't be accused of spin. I thought I was doing people a favour by posting something concerning the market. Seems a story can't be posted on this site without being accused of spinning for one side or the other.

Edited by mikthe20

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Expert investors getting out of an asset en masse is usually a sign of the top of that market being reached - no matter what the asset. Novice investors/speculators may well still buy even if the experts are leaving.

But they're not leaving are they:

From the article again:

"So where is all this investment money disappearing to? Some agents say it is coming straight back into the property market, but it is being reinvested at a different level. “We have had several clients selling larger investments — whose prices have increased disproportionately — as tenancies have come to an end,” says Mark Turnstall, of the Central London agent Chesterfield. “One client has just sold two houses, for £4.75 million and £6.2 million, and is now looking to reinvest the capital in smaller units offering better returns.”"

Edited by LivingTheDream-JustLikeLeedsUtd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i quite regulary put my properties on the market between lettings,

if i get lost of interest it give me an indication of the state of the market for remortage to get tax free cash out paid for by the tenant, also as i conduct many of the viewings on mass (i.e the same morning) i also have a list of potential renters that the agent has brought to the door that i did not have to pay them for!!!

most of my properties are small and in good renter locations and in good condition, so i have picked up a few good tenants this way looking for a good landlord and a better house and though the only way was to buy one, but are happy to continue to rent and not want the hassle of ownership.

all at no cost to me

MH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the headline:

Landlords cash in
Many London buy-to-let investors are choosing to sell up. Paula Hawkins finds out why

Anyway you look at it, this article is very bearish. Sell-up, exiting, headed for exits-- all the same. Pedantic Peter might say "exiting" means to actually leave as opposed to just attempting to sell. But it is better to go with Tautolougous Tim's approach and use something like: more landlords are selling their properties causing more properties to be for sale.

To the casual observer who leans toward uber-bullishness, the news is frightening and comes as a shock when the VIs have, until very recently, been spinning all negatiove out of their reports. Thus, today's news would have been something like this: BTL prices to rise as BTLs fly off the shelves amid surghing and frenzied buying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But they're not leaving are they:

From the article again:

"So where is all this investment money disappearing to? Some agents say it is coming straight back into the property market, but it is being reinvested at a different level. “We have had several clients selling larger investments — whose prices have increased disproportionately — as tenancies have come to an end,” says Mark Turnstall, of the Central London agent Chesterfield. “One client has just sold two houses, for £4.75 million and £6.2 million, and is now looking to reinvest the capital in smaller units offering better returns.”"

I suggest you read the article in full. I would doubt that they will be investing the full £11m in smaller units don't you? The article talks about lettings agent losing large chunks of stock: 20%-30%. If those landlords were re-investing the proceeds of large properties into smaller ones then surely the stock should have multiplied. Sell two properties for£11m and buy 20 with that same £11m?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anecdotal but I have seen this happening over the last few months.

More than enough friends, neighbours and acquaintances experiencing landlords selling their rented appartments for this to be a coincidence.

My gut feeling is it is profit-taking and they will dive back in if prices do drop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But they're not leaving are they:

From the article again:

"So where is all this investment money disappearing to? Some agents say it is coming straight back into the property market, but it is being reinvested at a different level. “We have had several clients selling larger investments — whose prices have increased disproportionately — as tenancies have come to an end,” says Mark Turnstall, of the Central London agent Chesterfield. “One client has just sold two houses, for £4.75 million and £6.2 million, and is now looking to reinvest the capital in smaller units offering better returns.”"

The key is in these words:

Some
agents
say
it is coming straight back into the property market,

Bottom line: more properties are coming onto the market and yields are falling. Fuel for the HPC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you'd said "stupid" I'd feel insulted, but I assume it is in good humour. It's really quite simple, professional landlords who have been in this game a while (the article cites several that have been rented over 5 years) are getting out. The only reasons I can see is that they see low yields combined with toppy prices (otherwise they'd keep them for capital appreciation). It's not just one or two as in the article.

We've been told that landlords have replaced FTB's in propping up the market. If landlords leave then there's nothing to support the market.

Expert investors getting out of an asset en masse is usually a sign of the top of that market being reached - no matter what the asset. Novice investors/speculators may well still buy even if the experts are leaving.

Please don't feel as if i'm saying you're stupid - i'm not at all. It just seems that with this article, as with most bearish threads i've read today - that bears say one thing and quote something when it actually shows more of a bullish market than anything.

The landlords mentioned here seem far from the professional brush you paint them with. Letting a place at £2/WEEK and then thinking "oh let me see how much i can get for it" and then being surprised they can get as much as they do, seems far from the sort of key'ed up pro i would imagine knows what is going on with their property.

I don't feel it's "expert" investors are not getting out "en masse" - i think it's people who have probably not cared much about their property while it lets out well for them, thought "oh hang on i wonder if i can put it on the market for something silly during a void period" and lo and behold, the bullish London market snaps it up for 2.5 mil.

To me, this article does nothing but espouse the fact the bubble is still very much there. And yes, as stated, i'm a bear and if someone says "crash" i say "bring it on!"

You're new here aren't you???

(See also comments about spin.)

Yes i am. Am i missing something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how the title I gave differs from the story - the story says landloards are leaving the lettings market (only way they can do that is by selling). That's all I said in my original post. Indeed, I was very careful not to add any personal comment to my original post just so I wouldn't be accused of spin. I thought I was doing people a favour by posting something concerning the market. Seems a story can't be posted on this site without being accused of spinning for one side or the other.

To be honest, I wasn't really directing my comment to your post, it was more a general point. I didn't find this title too misleading!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, I wasn't really directing my comment to your post, it was more a general point. I didn't find this title too misleading!

I was deliberately trying to avoid misleading, but hey-ho :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes i am. Am i missing something?

Sorry, tongue in cheek.

This happens all the time, that's all. The site is called housepricecrash. There will obviously be more of one sentiment than the other.

In an entire article there is one bearish quote which badger posted and clearly labeled it as specifically selected for the HPC site.

Would love to stay for the debate, but it's pub time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, tongue in cheek.

This happens all the time, that's all. The site is called housepricecrash. There will obviously be more of one sentiment than the other.

In an entire article there is one bearish quote which badger posted and clearly labeled it as specifically selected for the HPC site.

Would love to stay for the debate, but it's pub time.

Gotcha, many thanks for helping me get up to speed :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i quite regulary put my properties on the market between lettings,

if i get lost of interest it give me an indication of the state of the market for remortage to get tax free cash out paid for by the tenant, also as i conduct many of the viewings on mass (i.e the same morning) i also have a list of potential renters that the agent has brought to the door that i did not have to pay them for!!!

most of my properties are small and in good renter locations and in good condition, so i have picked up a few good tenants this way looking for a good landlord and a better house and though the only way was to buy one, but are happy to continue to rent and not want the hassle of ownership.

all at no cost to me

MH

I like this post. And I like it even more when I imagine Mr Hampton relating the contents of the post in one of two ways:

- Talking to a young and impressionable trainee EA lady in a bar on a Friday, tie askew, perhaps in Uttoxeter

- Talking to a "lady of the night" in Singapore's famous Four Floors of Whores, pants askew, perhaps in Crazy Horse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At some point, even I might decide selling is better than letting.

It's up to you lot really, how much further are you going to bid the market up?

:D

And I thought I was grasping this hpc thing.

I thought it was when the last bear went bull, not the last bull going bear. ;)

NDL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.