Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Webmaster

A Change Of Tactic

Recommended Posts

We've been talking quite a bit with everyone about what else to do in terms of changing mainstream views and getting some sort of momentum going to try and bring house prices down to realistic levels.

We think in order to appeal the masses we need to find some common ground and then push forward on this.

The best way to do this is to campaign for more family houses to be built. We can also campaign for these houses to be eco-friendly and beneficial to the environment rather than harmful. We can highlight the amount of house building that is done all over the world and show that house building in the UK is at a record low. Also we can look at supply and demand. The builders are just building flats and this isn't what people want. They need to start supplying what the consumers are asking for.

Another part of this is to campaign for a change in the restrictive planning regulations for housing.

To start off with we want to get everyones ideas on the Wiki or on this thread.

We will then collate everything together and launch a poster campaign and possibly a "mainstream friendly" website where we can present all the facts in a nice graphical, easy to read, easy on the eye format similar to this website.

So what are you waiting for, lets have your input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

grand idea! But we may need to be careful about overt links to this pit of loonies. In fact, I might even go so far as to say that steps should be taken to conceal the link. :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I think you're right. We need to make this campaign a separate entity from housepricecrash.co.uk. We can get more public support and more momentum from the masses if we make the subject nice and fluffy and non-controversial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally!! Instead of wishing for a price crash(which helps absolutley no-one) we should be trying to get more better quality houses built.

Im up for anything to help this cause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally!! Instead of wishing for a price crash(which helps absolutley no-one) we should be trying to get more better quality houses built.

Im up for anything to help this cause.

Still won't benefit anyone though, if these new houses are priced at the current insane prices will it?

So a house price decline IS required!

Edited by OzzMosiz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well any increase in supply should be good for the cause.

It's also more about getting the issues of first time buyers into the headlines more often to raise the awareness of this problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree with the sentiment of this campaign, I do have a couple of worries.

1. Will changing mainstream opinion have any effect? i.e. Will any homeowners fight for something that will effectively reduce the market-value of their home, regardless of how they feel about affordability for first time buyers?

2. Would it be better to specifically target decision-makers, for example MPs.

3. If the campaign was successful and many thousands of new terraced homes were built specifically for first time buyers, wouldn't they just be snapped-up by BTL investors like we've seen with flats in the last few years?

I do agree though that doing anything to highlight the current problems of first time buyers can only be a good thing. :)

Edited by HPCheese

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  1. Will changing mainstream opinion have any effect? i.e. Will any homeowners fight for something that will effectively reduce the market-value of their home, regardless of how they feel about affordability for first time buyers?
    I think we will be able to find some common ground. Remember we are not talking about bringing prices down, we are just talking about building more houses. Even though this will have the desired affect, the fact that we are not concentrating on this fact makes it more politically correct. We need to target parents and grandparents as they will be more than aware of the plight their sons/daughters, grandsons and granddaughters who can't afford to buy a house and they will all agree that there should be more family homes being built.

  2. Would it be better to specifically target decision-makers, for example MPs.
    This is angle that www.pricedout.org.uk are taking and we think that if different websites take different angles then there will be more focus which should mean more results/publicity.

  3. If the campaign was successful and many thousands of new terraced homes were built specifically for first time buyers, wouldn't they just be snapped-up by BTL investors like we've seen with flats in the last few years?
    I think part of the campaign would address this issue and would put pressure on the government to have in place a way that excludes BTL's. This is maybe where we can team up with websites like www.pricedout.org.uk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We think in order to appeal the masses we need to find some common ground and then push forward on this.

The best way to do this is to campaign for more family houses to be built. We can also campaign for these houses to be eco-friendly and beneficial to the environment rather than harmful. We can highlight the amount of house building that is done all over the world and show that house building in the UK is at a record low. Also we can look at supply and demand. The builders are just building flats and this isn't what people want. They need to start supplying what the consumers are asking for.

Another part of this is to campaign for a change in the restrictive planning regulations for housing.

Very good idea.

The perception that there is not enough land to build on in the UK is rubbish. Only something like 2%-7% is built on. Because of restrictive planning laws more and more smaller properties are built in city/town locations pushing up the population densities and in some cases removing the few open spaces in towns and cities that make a big difference to peoples lives there.

Why should all the housing be squeezed into all the remaining spaces in towns/cities where the majority of people live so that they aren't built on green fields that are protected by the nimby attitudes of the absolute minority.

Another issue is that if this government wants to allow such large scale immigration into this country then they cannot be so restrictive on building on green field sites. If they are prepared to allow the population to grow due to immigration they need to relax the planning laws and improve the infrastructure which they are not doing.

Also, I cannot stand the fact that all new builds in this country are the Barratt home red-brick style grand dolls house type properties. My parents had one for 2 years and it was trully awful. No solid walls inside means that that there is no noise insulation and absolutely no privacy.

There are some really nice developments in cornwall where the properties have a bit more thought on the design going into them.

And then there's the issue of something like 50% of new builds now being flats. Fine while the FTB generation including everybody under 40 who hasn't bought can't afford anything more but absolutely no good for the future and having a family/kids in.

A nice little shock tactic on that new site might be some material on how prices are stopping people having kids and how inevitably this will lead to more massive scale immigration in the future to plug the gap. House prices going up good? - yes very good for the immigrants that will be coming here in the future because FTBs can no longer afford to have kids.

Edited by munimula

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest I don't think a campaign to advocate building more houses would have any impact on helping brining house prices down. There are organisations that campaign for this already and existed before, during and no doubt after this boom and bust cycle of house prices in the UK. I think time wise the impact, if any was generated, would be so far off into the future that it wouldn't be of much help to people on HPC. It would take years for a significant number of houses to be built, let alone for agreements to be won in the first place for such projects to go ahead.

Also I think it would feed into the VI's spin that there is a shortage of houses in the UK which justifies the current high prices for property.

I don't think the general public would make the connections between the various issues that we would want them to. To get a message across to the public you have to be direct. I think a campaign that focuses on the need for house prices to return to 3.5 times the average income will get you an average house is what is needed. The campaign would perhaps campaign for mortgage lenders to be regulated in terms of how much they can lend. This would help Brown achieve an end to boom and bust in the housing market and would create stability at sensible prices that would benefit all of us whether we are current owners or are trying to get on the property ladder for the first time. It would allow such a campaign to highlight how irresponsible lending has led to high house prices and all the negatives associated with that (FTB's priced out, current owner-occupiers stuck where they are, money going on paying the mortgage that should be going into savings, pensions and buying products to help keep the economy going, etc., etc.).

Unless the issues are tackled directly it will just go over the heads of Joe and Jane public imo. Yes, there may be some risk (to what degree we won't know until we try) of turning off some people because of the directness but at least the message will be loud and clear and will register with far more people than a softly softly approach that runs the risk of not being noticed at all.

I also think the time is ripe for direct, but well argued and reasoned approach. Someone recently started a thread which reported a recent Gallup poll report which found that 70% of the population think the house price bubble is going to burst. I think the population is ready to tackle this issue about the need for falling house prices head on. Any campaign that does materialise, imo, should set out to highlight the downside of high/rising house prices and the upside of falling/lower house prices. This, imo, would get much quicker results than trying to get the public interested in a long term project that will take years to achieve. We live in a here and now society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this could work provided that it is done so as to convince the general public that they want more houses built and that this is good for them and their kids.

As for issues about increased supply leading to lower prices, that's exactly the point in doing it but under no circumstances should that be brought to the attention of the general public. Personally, I would avoid house price issues absolutely and present the difficulties in buying a home as one of lack of supply. Totally IGNORE the price issue as lower house prices aren't a winner with property owners (ie voters).

Next thing is to convince the masses that the UK is being held back by lack of house building. Fewer jobs for builders, lower economic growth and so on. Don't worry about facts as to who is going to live in them or that prices will eventually crash, just focus on the benefits of building more houses. To put that another way, think of the benefits NOW (more jobs etc) and don't worry about tomorrow. First rule of politics. (And in our case a disaster tomorrow is just what we're expecting anyway.)

As for the planning regulations, it's a lifestyle issue... (Well, that's what to tell people). Crowded city centres, houses near petrol stations and nightclubs, crime, noisy stereos, lack of parking, children living in high density developments being exposed to others sex (hearing through the walls), cigarette smoke, offensive language, others' heavy drinking and so on. All setting a terribly bad example. This must stop and we need to bring up our kids in a safe (safety and children are always a winner...) environment free of these things. :)

It's like selling luxury cars, chocolate etc. Convince people that they want a change in the planning regulations not because of some logical need, but because they deserve it. They deserve some more space, more land, more freedom and so on. To hell with facts, this is about marketing (as are most things).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't agree that addressing the 'house price' issue directly would necessarily turn off current home owners.

Many owner/occupiers (probably more than at any other time in recent history - I'm talking decades) are stuck where they are despite the increased equity they have in their houses/flats. The property ladder has broken down. Many owner/occupiers would like to move to bigger/better properties/areas to live in but cannot do so because of high house prices. Falling/lower house prices will enable them to, at last, move up the property ladder. Also, many parents, due to high house prices, are having to lend/give their children large chunks of money to finance deposits on buying a first time property. If prices come down they won't need to do this and can put that money into paying off their mortgage, their savings, pensions, etc. There are many positives from falling house prices for current home owners - a campaign just needs to highlight them to help counter the VI spin that has dominated over the last few years without being seriously challenged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This seems like a good juncture to mention our newly launched campaign agenda;

http://www.pricedout.org.uk/About/tabid/110/Default.aspx

This will be supplemented shortly (in the next week or so) with a second document detailing exactly what changes Priced Out will be directly campaigning for. Here's a very quick summary;

We have identified three key areas policy makers must address:

* Increase the supply of newly built homes

* Restrict house price inflationary pressures

* Rethink unhelpful government property market schemes

Once this second document is in place we intend to launch our campaign proper, we have a number of wee tricks up our sleeves to help out the launch.

If you're interested in helping out we'll be looking for as many people to write to their MP's about the campaign as possible when it launches. Stay tuned...

Edited by DoubleBubbleTrouble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're interested in helping out we'll be looking for as many people to write to their MP's about the campaign as possible when it launches. Stay tuned...

I would be happy too.

I got a very quick response from my MP - Vincent Cable, Lib Dems recently.

First time I'd written to an MP but I was disgusted to find that under new VED system the top VED was £165, so for anyone buying even the worst polluting big car or 4X4 - they were actually paying less than me (£170) because my car was registered pre March 2001. It was trully unbelievable to discover and I wonder how many people realised this?

Vincent Cable actually replied - TWICE!! Not sure why but anyway he thanked me for pointing out the anomaly and said that the Lib Dems would shortly be proposing their new policy towards VED. In the first letter he said he would use the information to reply to Gordon Brown after the budget but I never got to watch and find out.

I am taking more and more to the Lib Dems as they are at least coming up with some ideas!

Anyway, with this success I'm going to compile another letter for Vince about current state of the housing market and how it is affecting me as a FTB.

He is the deputy of the Lib Dems so quite a prominent member and he might recognise my name and take me seriously on this one.

It's made me realise that it is worth writing and that the more of us that write the better.

Edit: it also helps that Vince Cable seems to have a modicum of what is going on as he wrote this piece in the Telegraph;

Personal view: Forget Prudence. We're drowning in debt, Mr Brown

By Vince Cable (Filed: 07/03/2006)

http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.j.../07/ixcoms.html

Perhaps the Lib Dems are the FTBers best bet.

Edited by munimula

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It`ll be a helluva slog guys :( When you witness the Daily Express yesterday and its title (I can be seen to buy it for research means only ;) ) re. house prices doubling in the next decade you realise what you are up against. When you read further into the copy and discover that the best property pr agency bar none actually managed to get three of their clients mentioned in the piece, then you should realise what a battle you`re up against.

I cannot for the life of me see any protest working, most folk in this country realise that: protests/pickets/marches do not work..there is a general apathy. Good luck anyhow... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Cletus VanDamme

A fantastic idea. Focus on the positive. The implicit focus of HPC is negative ('crash'), so we need to balance that, while still having the same aim of reducing housing costs.

I think the campaign should focus on the damage to the country's future prosperity by not having enough family homes. Decent homes with decent amenities, within decent surroundings, are vital to build sustainable communities and thus sustainable economic growth.

We need to take on the CPRE. Despite their fluffy website, claiming to have the interest of the county at heart, they would consign future generations to high-density living on post-industrial wastelands bisected by polluting ring roads.

We need to investigate cheaper methods of building that are at the same time environmentally sound. Building a house brick by brick seems to me to be insane these days.

No reason why these structures can't be scaled up to full-size homes:

http://www.ecospacestudios.com/index.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It`ll be a helluva slog guys :( When you witness the Daily Express yesterday and its title (I can be seen to buy it for research means only ;) ) re. house prices doubling in the next decade you realise what you are up against. When you read further into the copy and discover that the best property pr agency bar none actually managed to get three of their clients mentioned in the piece, then you should realise what a battle you`re up against.

I cannot for the life of me see any protest working, most folk in this country realise that: protests/pickets/marches do not work..there is a general apathy. Good luck anyhow... ;)

It is an almost impossible battle.

My dad actually quoted an old Express headline recently when he told me that 'the average house price will be £1M by 2030'. I seem to remember it was printed sometime over a year ago, based on HPI continuing which of course it wasn't even doing when the article was printed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Cletus VanDamme

I saw one of these on the TV a few months ago where a couple put one up in England:

http://www.huf-haus.de/en/

Does anyone know roughly how much a hufhaus is?

Article about them in the Guradian recently I think. They start at around 500K, so no luck there I'm afraid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.