Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Spirit

Pity The Poor Agents On Ch4 Forum

Recommended Posts

EA on Ch4 forum defending the practice of mortgage brokers sharing buyer's financial info with EAs.

This business about how underhand it is that mortgage brokers share with EA the information about the borrowing power of a buyer. Well does the vendor think it underhand if it protects their position. Let me explain. If a buyer can afford the £250,000 asking price how many of them would approach the agent saying my offer is £230,000, because, 'that's all I can afford' well I say most of them do. It's a blatent lie! A lie from a member of the public! surely not! Innocent little lamb of a first time buyer approaching wolf of an EA! Us EA's have that monopoly don't we. Why should the seller be compromised by a lie. If the buyer can afford the asking price, it does not mean to say they want to pay it, but they should not use that old, 'that's all I can afford' rubbish, not if they want to keep the moral high ground that they always seem to claim.

http://community.channel4.com/groupee/foru.../9020088644/p/2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont see the problem. So what if me and strife can afford a place for £225k? If we have told the EA that we only want to look at houses with a max £200K ask then thats all I'm going to look at. If the EA say there another place for £225k but the seller might be flexible I'll just say "No"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont see the problem. So what if me and strife can afford a place for £225k? If we have told the EA that we only want to look at houses with a max £200K ask then thats all I'm going to look at. If the EA say there another place for £225k but the seller might be flexible I'll just say "No"

That's fine if you want to pay the asking price for a property...

The problem arises when you have made an offer to the vendor of £200K and your agent tells the vendor that you have been offered a mortgage of £225K (because your mortgage broker revealed your personal financial info to him).

IMHO that is certainly going to influence the vendor's decision about whether to accept your offer or hold out for more!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's fine if you want to pay the asking price for a property...

The problem arises when you have made an offer to the vendor of £200K and your agent tells the vendor that you have been offered a mortgage of £225K (because your mortgage broker revealed your personal financial info to him).

IMHO that is certainly going to influence the vendor's decision about whether to accept your offer or hold out for more!

That's precisely the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So hang on, I should pay whatever I can afford for something? When I walked into Tesco this morning for a £1 bottle of milk and I actually had a fiver in my pocket, was I duping them? What about haggling a bag of 60p apples to 50p on the market when I actually had two fifty pence peices in my pocket, was I fooling the poor seller, should I have paid £1 instead? If I want to buy a £25k car from a garage and I have £30k in the bank should I give them the extra £5k just for shits and giggles?

This is insane, this isn't the way markets should work, if nobody bought any food, clothes and walked everywhere they could probably afford an even bigger mortgage, but that's not the point. The pricing of a house should extend well beyond it's marginal monthly cost.

Edited by BuyingBear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So hang on, I should pay whatever I can afford for something? When I walked into Tesco this morning for a £1 bottle of milk and I actually had a fiver in my pocket, was I duping them?

Fair enough, but I think the point was that the buyers were claiming "that's all I can afford" when really it was just a case of "that's what I want to offer" and thus, in the EA's opinion, stepping off the moral high ground.

I would have thought a refusal to comment about whether they could afford more a simple way out for the buyer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough, but I think the point was that the buyers were claiming "that's all I can afford" when really it was just a case of "that's what I want to offer" and thus, in the EA's opinion, stepping off the moral high ground.

I would have thought a refusal to comment about whether they could afford more a simple way out for the buyer.

How would a mortgage broker/EA judge how much a buyer can afford? Based on income multiples. So it's really not a case of how much a buyer can afford but the maximum amount they can borrow. The practice is indefinsible and shows how corrupt the finance services/estate agent set up is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough, but I think the point was that the buyers were claiming "that's all I can afford" when really it was just a case of "that's what I want to offer" and thus, in the EA's opinion, stepping off the moral high ground.

That's all part of price discovery, of course a buyer can say "that's all I'm prepared to pay" or "that's already more than it's worth" but one could argue that saying "that's all I can afford" is more polite and complimentary as it implies "I would pay more for your lovely house if I could". You could also turn this entire argument on its head, the vendor may have already achieved a fair price and is holding out for more money beyond what they need or were originally expecting, the sellers greed is more than equal to the buyers desire for the best price possible.

If it's not a fair price then the vendor can tell the buyer to get stuffed and find someone else, non of this actually has anything to do with the amount a buyer has stuffed under the mattress! It's simply about the relative worth of the house in question. By that reasoning a buyer could illegally obtain confidential information about the vendor and argue that the vendor is already rich and can afford to sell their house for less! It doesn't sound very nice when the boot is on the other foot!

Edited by BuyingBear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now there's a sweeping statement and, like all sweeping statements, it has no value.

Wrong, no sweeping statement that. The years of evidence against this unprofesional, unregulated, poorly trained, unlawfully practiced, Estate Agency "Quackery" speaks for itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well surely the answer is to LIE about your income

e.g. instead of saying you earn £24K, you acutally only earn £20K

then you will get the mortgage you really want (the EA/MA, know you cant go any higher)

Fight fire with fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest muttley

Now there's a sweeping statement and, like all sweeping statements, it has no value.

What? All sweeping statements?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's all part of price discovery, of course a buyer can say "that's all I'm prepared to pay" or "that's already more than it's worth" but one could argue that saying "that's all I can afford"

I do appreciate your point - you seem to be suggesting that since affordability is subjective (and understood by the EA and the buyer as such) then it is a fair bargaining tool. The EA criticism of buyers then becomes pots and kettles, but I think they are still entitled to claim that such buyers are not on the moral high ground

I was simply saying the same-but-opposite: that since affordability is subjective (and understood by the EA and the buyer as such) I choose to leave it out of the discussions because the EA knows full well that once I have exhausted the credit limit of a lender I feel comfortable with, there is another less reputable one waiting in the wings prepared to lend me more, charge me a higher IR, and accept fewer proofs of income.

In my opinion, it's none of EA's business how conservatively or aggressively I choose to run my finances, and if he thinks I should be stretching myself further so his buyer can trouser more of my hard-earned, he can think again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do appreciate your point - you seem to be suggesting that since affordability is subjective (and understood by the EA and the buyer as such) then it is a fair bargaining tool. The EA criticism of buyers then becomes pots and kettles, but I think they are still entitled to claim that such buyers are not on the moral high ground

It is a business transaction, most EA's are on very shaky ground when referring to "morals", it's rather like the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough, but I think the point was that the buyers were claiming "that's all I can afford" when really it was just a case of "that's what I want to offer" and thus, in the EA's opinion, stepping off the moral high ground.

I would have thought a refusal to comment about whether they could afford more a simple way out for the buyer.

What is this moral highground rubbish? Its business, pure and simple. Things are worth what they can attract. Is it immoral to refuse to tell the EA what you earn? As BuyingBear says (so terribly British) its just good manners. "Its not worth what your asking" sounds harsh. The EA says that a person lying is immoral and yet doesn't think that obtaining information by deception is immoral. An EA thinks that Gazundering is immoral but doesn't raise a wink when it comes to gazumping. Maybe the buyer can't afford more for that house but they can afford more for a better house. Afterall prices may go up or down. If I decide to buy a cheaper house and prioritise my money elsewhere, why should I pay more because I can afford to pay more. If I am going to pay up to the max, I might just offer on a bigger better house!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would be the moral highground rubbish that's mentioned in the original posting.

EA's haven't been too concerned about the moral highground over the past five years, why all this philosophical anguish all of a sudden? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just walk into ANY estate Agents and before you get a chance to enquire about a property they say "Let me just take a few details/".

Is this right?? NO IT F'king WELL IS NOT!!!

EA's have NO RIGHT to find about you and put you on a mailing list and the government spin about demand. They are SALES PEOPLE and I am being kinds calling them PEOPLE!

Their tactics and business dealing are shady to say the least! They are on the side of the seller NOT THE BUYER and they will do everything possible to rape as much money out a buyer as possible, through honest or dishonest means.

I would trust Gary Glitter to babysit my kids before I would trust an Estate Agent!!!

TB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wrong, no sweeping statement that. The years of evidence against this unprofesional, unregulated, poorly trained, unlawfully practiced, Estate Agency "Quackery" speaks for itself.

Actually, this might come as a surprise to you, but a lot of people are very happy with the service they get or got from their agent and use the same agent over and over again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, this might come as a surprise to you, but a lot of people are very happy with the service they get or got from their agent and use the same agent over and over again.

You could say the same of crack dealers :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would trust Gary Glitter to babysit my kids before I would trust an Estate Agent!!!

TB

Yikes! If I was an EA that comment would really get my goat.

Thank the Lord I aint an EA! :lol::lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.