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Haven't you heard. NuLabour are great fans of Orwell.

So much so that in devising their new vision for Britain they combined Animal Farm with 1984 to create their planning template.

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Haven't you heard. NuLabour are great fans of Orwell.

So much so that in devising their new vision for Britain they combined Animal Farm with 1984 to create their planning template.

I think my sig says it all!

Cheers.

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When was Britain ever a free country? OK, we might not have identity cards, but we do have jury service. At least we don't have conscription, like we did 45 years ago. Yet it is compulsory to fill in a census form.

Parliament? When did we ever have proper, parliamentary goverment? The whip system and patronage (eg honours and government jobs) means that government can usually get most of their MPs to tow the line. Big decisions tend to be made by the Prime Minister and a close cabal - most of the cabinet aren't involved. That's always been the case. Did Clement Attlee consult the parliamentary Labour party on whether or not Britain should develop nuclar weapons?

When was the hey-day of British freedom? What year were we most free? When was Lady Chatterley's lover published?

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When was Britain ever a free country?

Not much over a hundred years ago the average Briton could go through their life barely having to interact with any government bureaucracy other than the Post Office. WWI was the beginning of bloated UK government intruding into all spheres of life, and it's only grown larger ever since.

OK, we might not have identity cards, but we do have jury service.

Um, juries were one of the greatest guarantors of freedom in Britain, which is precisely why Blair wants to eliminate them. The whole point of juries was to ensure that the government couldn't enforce unpopular laws, because the jury would refuse to convict.

Of course today they've been so weakened that they're no longer effective. Freedom is easy to lose, but hard to regain... and I doubt it will return in the UK without a major social collapse along the way.

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Not much over a hundred years ago the average Briton could go through their life barely having to interact with any government bureaucracy other than the Post Office.

Try telling that to Oscar Wilde in Reading Prison. Women didn't have the vote. You didn't have the freedom to walk the street of many parts of London without being killed or mugged.

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For another good article see 'Blair's inner circle and its ferocious grab for power':

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1747669,00.html

From forcing through ID cards to the erosion of parliamentary scrutiny, a determined clique is hijacking our democracy.

[...snip...]

Piece by piece, month by month, Tony Blair's administration is removing the safeguards that protect all of us from the whims of a government and the intrusions of a powerful state. It is engaged in a ferocious power-grab. Yet this story has not seized the imagination of the media or the public. In our failure to respond, the government must be reading a tacit acceptance that it can do what it chooses, because we either don't notice or don't care.

[...snip...]

The perverse fact is that we are being asked to place great trust in a government that makes a point of distrusting everyone outside its inner circle. If we don't share their assumption that they alone know what is best for the rest of us, we had better start protesting now. Last year Blair promised to listen to us. As he dismantles our defences, what he is hearing is something close to silence.

Also see the comments under 'Can anything be done?':

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jenni_...04/post_27.html

The response to the issue I wrote about again this week -- the hi-jacking of our democracy by Tony Blair's government -- proves that there is a huge well of concern about the direction the government is taking us in. In addition to the long and thoughtful exchanges on this blog, I've had more than 150 emails. What comes through so strikingly in the messages I've had is people's sense of despairing impotence. Two thirds of them want to know how their voices can be heard. Many of them say that they are prepared to take action on this issue - writing or protesting or organising - in a way they have never done before, but they want to know whether anything they do has a chance of being effective.

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Try telling that to Oscar Wilde in Reading Prison. Women didn't have the vote. You didn't have the freedom to walk the street of many parts of London without being killed or mugged.

Hmm just over a hundred years ago, the British Government was all-benevolent, eh? If you were a Boer in South Africa, you were herded into the worlds first "concentration camps", where you were likely to die of typhus and malnutrition.

Wake up, there was no golden age.

frugalista

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I think this kind of fanaticism (ID cards to track your every move and transaction) comes from goverments who have been in power too long. The US at least has a system to dump their Presidents after a maximum of 2 terms. Although, having said that it looks like the Clinton duo may be back next time unless McCain decides to run against them.

Something about power makes people a little crazy in the head (or corrupt as Freddy Nietzch said). As much as I respected Maggie, I think she stayed on too long and as a consequence became arrogant. Tony and Gordon are taking on the swaggering arrogance of some of Adolf's henchmen when they appeared to be invincible and its a little scary.

Time to chnage over to the Tories for awhile.

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I think this kind of fanaticism (ID cards to track your every move and transaction) comes from goverments who have been in power too long. The US at least has a system to dump their Presidents after a maximum of 2 terms. Although, having said that it looks like the Clinton duo may be back next time unless McCain decides to run against them.

Something about power makes people a little crazy in the head (or corrupt as Freddy Nietzch said). As much as I respected Maggie, I think she stayed on too long and as a consequence became arrogant. Tony and Gordon are taking on the swaggering arrogance of some of Adolf's henchmen when they appeared to be invincible and its a little scary.

Time to chnage over to the Tories for awhile.

Realistbear,

I don't know whether the Tories are the answer. I suspect not. Personally I think it's time to consider the one demand of the Chartists that so far hasn't been met, and that's for annual parliaments. Ie new elections every year.

Edited by Scipio_Africanus

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Guest X-QUORK

What's the connection between this thread and house prices? :angry:

Do the Mods ever bother to check that threads are in the right place? That Iranian discussion has f*ck all to do with House Prices either. :rolleyes:

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Try telling that to Oscar Wilde in Reading Prison. Women didn't have the vote.

None of which contradicts anything I said.

You didn't have the freedom to walk the street of many parts of London without being killed or mugged.

The violent crime rate today is far higher than it was in 1900. Also, back then, anyone with 50p to spare could carry a gun to defend themselves, and anyone could buy a gun over the counter to keep in their home to shoot burglars... an action which _wouldn't_ get you sent to jail while the burglar walked free.

Hmm just over a hundred years ago, the British Government was all-benevolent, eh?

Again, where did I say that? No government is benevolent, but the average Briton had a heck of a lot more freedom in 1900 than in 2000.

Wake up, there was no golden age.

But 1900 was sure as hell better for freedom in the UK for the average citizen than 2000 is. Christ, the government back then wanted to see 'a gun in every cottage' to defend the UK against invasion: can you imagine any government today showing that level of trust in the population?

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What's the connection between this thread and house prices? :angry:

Freedom and the markets - totally connected. Financial asset price changes now (and this certainly includes houses) are massively influenced by people (i.e. the markets) trying to front run the governments next move. Hence house prices moved because the markets correctly anticipated the effects of Keynsian policies in Japan. If governments were not so smotheringly huge then this would not happen. The the markets could get to business as usual - cooperation to everyones benefit

Freedom and democracy are mutually exclusive. You can have freedom OR democracy.

BAB

Edited by BayAreaBear

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If governments were not so smotheringly huge then this would not happen. The the markets could get to business as usual - cooperation to everyones benefit

Agreed. Big government is the primary cause of boom and bust, because it prevents the natural corrective actions of the market.

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Time to chnage over to the Tories for awhile.

To be brutally honest, you should have thought of that 12 months ago! However a lot can happen in 4 or so years until the next choosing. and I bet they still will hold the elections on a thursday instead of sunday like most other countries and complain about poor turn-out! Some of us have to work and keep the country running!

Bet Brown will be gutted if he loses the election and/or leadership contest though.

Just aside, the thing I cant fathom at the moment is that over the last few years more and more people seem to be hell bent obsessed with money, and the media doesn't help. Is it just me or have others noticed similar... How does it help if you flog a house for 20K or so more. You're only going to waste the money on some other useless fancy and annoy the people you ripped off. More important things, that you just cant buy with money (yet!!), like say a languages degree 1st class or science Ph.D. from Cambridge or achieving chartered status just seem to be laughed at because their monetry value is useless..

Sometimes this country is just such an effort!!

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When was Britain ever a free country? OK, we might not have identity cards, but we do have jury service. At least we don't have conscription, like we did 45 years ago. Yet it is compulsory to fill in a census form.

Parliament? When did we ever have proper, parliamentary goverment? The whip system and patronage (eg honours and government jobs) means that government can usually get most of their MPs to tow the line. Big decisions tend to be made by the Prime Minister and a close cabal - most of the cabinet aren't involved. That's always been the case. Did Clement Attlee consult the parliamentary Labour party on whether or not Britain should develop nuclar weapons?

When was the hey-day of British freedom? What year were we most free? When was Lady Chatterley's lover published?

That's a reason to give more away is it?

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As an employee of the NHS i have nothing good to say about the present government.

Regarding our freedoms, here are two URL's to view:

http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/assets/aclu-pizza/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,59-2042165,00.html

Although it does feel like there is nothing we can do, I would hope that eveyone on here will bother to write to their MP in the first instance. At least let them know that we know what the B@st@rds are up to.

Disgruntled Bee Bear

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It will be the death knell for New Labour.

All a certain other party needs to do it to say "we will make ID cards optional", in order to get in.

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What's the connection between this thread and house prices? :angry:

Do the Mods ever bother to check that threads are in the right place? That Iranian discussion has f*ck all to do with House Prices either. :rolleyes:

I think its because house prices has so many related themes: interest rates, stock markets, wars, attitudes, employment issues, bankruptcy and insolvency, political issue, immigration and emigration, bird flu and the terrible economic repercussions a pandemic will cause, and perhaps quite a few other topics. :)

Iran has everything to do with house prices because a major war will rattle stock markets, hike the price of gold/oil and devalue a few currencies. That will throw IR into turmoil and possibly trigger a massive recession or, if the war goes nuke, depression.

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The British electorate a choice about all this last May, but they collectively acquiesced.

Too late to start complaining now. [ThePiltdownMan]

Less than one in five of the eligible electorate actually voted for Labour.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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