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reggie

Cardiff - Spring 2006

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We are relocating from the Surrey to Cardiff and have been amazed when comparing property prices. The South East actually looks far better value and we would struggle to find a house like ours for the same money. We are thinking of renting to see what happens to prices - but we notice that people were talking in terms of prices falling a year ago and this doesn't seem to have happened - is it likely to I wonder? The area of Cardiff we are looking at is Radyr/Pentyrch/Creigiau - North of the city. Any advice/observations?

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We are relocating from the Surrey to Cardiff and have been amazed when comparing property prices. The South East actually looks far better value and we would struggle to find a house like ours for the same money. We are thinking of renting to see what happens to prices - but we notice that people were talking in terms of prices falling a year ago and this doesn't seem to have happened - is it likely to I wonder? The area of Cardiff we are looking at is Radyr/Pentyrch/Creigiau - North of the city. Any advice/observations?

Could'nt agree with you more. We have been looking for nearly a year having moved from a very nice area of Cheshire. The houses we've looked at usually need extensive work or the vendors just put the property on the market hoping to get the asking price. I cant see what's holding the prices up, the economy is mainly based on the public sector. We are renting in the Bay area, we did this to see if we liked apartment living--we dont. We want our own house and our furniture out of storage but we are very reluctant to spend our hard earned cash in such a market. Be interested to hear how you get along.

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Could'nt agree with you more. We have been looking for nearly a year having moved from a very nice area of Cheshire. The houses we've looked at usually need extensive work or the vendors just put the property on the market hoping to get the asking price. I cant see what's holding the prices up, the economy is mainly based on the public sector. We are renting in the Bay area, we did this to see if we liked apartment living--we dont. We want our own house and our furniture out of storage but we are very reluctant to spend our hard earned cash in such a market. Be interested to hear how you get along.

We wondered if the Vale of Glamorgan represented better value - Cowbridge, Ystradowen - it was always more expensive than Cardiff but now seems to be fairly similar. Like you renting doesn't appeal - we have three children, all of schooling age, so it would have been good to give them some stability immediately, also wherever we rent we'll have to end up buying in that area as the children will have started school. It is looking increasingly likely that we'll rent - not sure whether it'll be short term or long term. Any other observations out there?

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Guest Winners and Losers

We wondered if the Vale of Glamorgan represented better value - Cowbridge, Ystradowen - it was always more expensive than Cardiff but now seems to be fairly similar. Like you renting doesn't appeal - we have three children, all of schooling age, so it would have been good to give them some stability immediately, also wherever we rent we'll have to end up buying in that area as the children will have started school. It is looking increasingly likely that we'll rent - not sure whether it'll be short term or long term. Any other observations out there?

Rent. Sorry.

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We are renting in the Bay area, we did this to see if we liked apartment living--we dont

Any chance of letting us know what it is like living in the Bay Area - people seem to rave about it but then all the people who do this do not actually live there. It seems to me that most of the properties are rentals and that many more of the appartment blocks look half-empty of an evening.

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Any chance of letting us know what it is like living in the Bay Area - people seem to rave about it but then all the people who do this do not actually live there. It seems to me that most of the properties are rentals and that many more of the appartment blocks look half-empty of an evening.

We've rented in the Bay area since last August--cant decide what to buy we think Cardiff house prices are way too high. We are downsizing and thought an apartment might be the answer but its not for us. There is very little sense of "community" I would assume less than 50% are owner occupied, there are many for sale and many that are substitutes for hotels for city breaks or sporting occasions etc. There are a huge number of new builds under construction and I cannot think who will buy them, what you hear very little of is the maintenance charges for these units which can be very high and the annual increases unregulated.

The bay area is very small and bars/restaurants outside a very narrow radius are never busy, when you hear of luxury shops--there are'nt any and large numbers of retail units are unlet. The cafe culture does not exist, at lunchtime the busyest place is Tesco where the office workers buy their sandwiches, crisps and a can. I was involved in large areas of the original construction work for the Bay and it was always stated that there would be a light transport system taking people from the city centre to the waterfront==we did'nt get it. It will get better as the weather improves but once you've had a look at the water what then?

You've probably gathered that I think its not all its hyped up to be, I hope not but it will probably be the centre of Cardiff's social housing 10 year's hence.

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Thanks, I agree. I think 10 years down the road a lot of the 'luxury' appartments will be social housing and woe betide those who have paid 250K plus for one of those appartments now.

A friend who owns a flat there that she rents out tells me that shops are always closing down in the 'cafe area' due to lack of business. I think if I was in Cardiff I would rather live Llandaff/Victoria Park way.

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Thanks, I agree. I think 10 years down the road a lot of the 'luxury' appartments will be social housing and woe betide those who have paid 250K plus for one of those appartments now.

A friend who owns a flat there that she rents out tells me that shops are always closing down in the 'cafe area' due to lack of business. I think if I was in Cardiff I would rather live Llandaff/Victoria Park way.

We've only been monitoring prices for the past few months - it seems that some more 'individual' properties can go quite quickly, but those on small to large 'developments' seem to be hanging around - how long has this been going on? We just don't understand who can afford these sorts of prices - similar jobs to where we live at present, don't give off same salaries. It's definitely looking like we'll rent and see how things develop - at least we'll be in a strong position if and when we decide to buy.

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Bit of an update - still looking to rent in Cardiff area but watching what the housing market is doing - it seemed that houses we had seen 5/6 months ago were still just sitting there at the same high prices; lately we've noticed a few starting to reduce, one by £20k. Sign of things to come? I don't know, hope so. Anybody else notice this happening in this area?

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Was talking to a early 30-seomthing who was boasting that her 3 bed townhouse in the Bay has 'made' her 170K in 3 years plus she is renting it out for £600 per month, after costs, profit. Makes you feel good doesn't it! :blink:

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Hi,

I have lived in Cardiff since 1988. There is one main reason for property prices being high and that is the rental market.

1. Students (Cardiff University is huge, plus there is the massive Heath medical school)

2. Professionals (Apart from Cardiff most of Wales is European Objective 1 (very poor) so everyone comes here to work, lots of Government bodies here.

I know some individual people that own upto 200 (yes thats right two hundred) houses each, which they rent out in central cardiff, all the prime city centre properties are rental, very rare to find families there now who actually own their own homes, so as a result houses are now a commodity that get traded for income (which is huge) a pokey one bed shoe-box will bring you £450 per month in the inner city areas. Students will gladly pay £225 per calendar month for a room in a shared house, so a six bed let will bring you £1350 per month, to buy it will cost you around £190,000

For a 2 bed house: Pay £130,000 max

For a 3 bed house: Pay £160,000 max

For a 4 bed house: Pay £180,000 max

The student market is going to INCREASE in Cardiff, because Glamorgan University which was a shitty poly about 15 miles north of Cardiff, has been granted huge money by the Welsh Assembly to move some departments to Cardiff, plus students coming to Wales won't have to pay huge top-up fees like English students.

There are NO real jobs outside of Cardiff, so the professional rental market is very strong here, Cardiff Bay is a big failure, loads of empty flats, take your pick if you move there but it is a soulless bland artificial place. Welsh Assembly will be pumping another £1billion into Cardiff during next 5-10 years, new shopping malls, ice skating centre, olympic style sports village in Bay.

Most landlords snapped up their properties around the early boom so they are not generally struggling to pay huge mortgages.

If you want to live in a shitty overpriced house (with no garden), then come to Cardiff, thats the way it is and thats the way its going to stay.

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Hi,

I have lived in Cardiff since 1988. There is one main reason for property prices being high and that is the rental market.

1. Students (Cardiff University is huge, plus there is the massive Heath medical school)

2. Professionals (Apart from Cardiff most of Wales is European Objective 1 (very poor) so everyone comes here to work, lots of Government bodies here.

I know some individual people that own upto 200 (yes thats right two hundred) houses each, which they rent out in central cardiff, all the prime city centre properties are rental, very rare to find families there now who actually own their own homes, so as a result houses are now a commodity that get traded for income (which is huge) a pokey one bed shoe-box will bring you £450 per month in the inner city areas. Students will gladly pay £225 per calendar month for a room in a shared house, so a six bed let will bring you £1350 per month, to buy it will cost you around £190,000

For a 2 bed house: Pay £130,000 max

For a 3 bed house: Pay £160,000 max

For a 4 bed house: Pay £180,000 max

The student market is going to INCREASE in Cardiff, because Glamorgan University which was a shitty poly about 15 miles north of Cardiff, has been granted huge money by the Welsh Assembly to move some departments to Cardiff, plus students coming to Wales won't have to pay huge top-up fees like English students.

There are NO real jobs outside of Cardiff, so the professional rental market is very strong here, Cardiff Bay is a big failure, loads of empty flats, take your pick if you move there but it is a soulless bland artificial place. Welsh Assembly will be pumping another £1billion into Cardiff during next 5-10 years, new shopping malls, ice skating centre, olympic style sports village in Bay.

Most landlords snapped up their properties around the early boom so they are not generally struggling to pay huge mortgages.

If you want to live in a shitty overpriced house (with no garden), then come to Cardiff, thats the way it is and thats the way its going to stay.

What a load of rubbish. I'm sure the number of individuals who own 200 properties in central Cardiff can be counted on the fingers of one finger, if that. And if you think you can pick up a city centre six bed place for £190,000 you must live in a different Cardiff from the one I do. Our two-up, one-down, mid-terrace on the outskirts recently sold for £220,000. We were renting it for £550 a month. That's a 3% yield. Nice. No wonder the landlord wanted out. I get more than that in my current account.

Despite what some would have you believe, there's nothing particularly special about the Cardiff economy, apart from an over reliance on public sector jobs and an average house price to salary ratio even more insane than the national average. Yes, we have a university, whoopee-do. I hear they now have them in England too. And no, students coming into Wales will not have reduced top-up fees, they'll be keeping them as fully topped-up as anywhere else.

The reason property prices are so high is nothing to do with a buoyant rental market, it's the same as everywhere else, i.e. inexpensive and readily available credit has enabled prices to fully decouple from economic reality and the market is now driven by highly-geared speculative investment.

There's nothing crash proof about Cardiff, quite the contrary, and when the crash does come, the large rental stock will only ease the movement downward. Add to that the Bay's gaping vacuum of empty two-bedroom apartments and the results could be catastrophic. When the UK's house market eventually crashes, Cardiff's is going to implode.

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IMPO Welsh HPs are so nuts because, dare I say it, the Welsh, with no history of a business due to being England's number one colony for 600 years, have little understanding of economics and, most importantly, of interest rates. In other words, people only see the monthly figure, work out whether that is less than their monthly take home pay and... beforey ou know HPs are nuts.

I am proud to be Welsh but the lack of economic nounce in Wales often worries me.

I agree, Welsh HPs are going to implode. Like others have posted, I think Cardiff Bay will end up as social housing within 5 years.

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Hi,

I have lived in Cardiff since 1988. There is one main reason for property prices being high and that is the rental market.

1. Students (Cardiff University is huge, plus there is the massive Heath medical school)

2. Professionals (Apart from Cardiff most of Wales is European Objective 1 (very poor) so everyone comes here to work, lots of Government bodies here.

I know some individual people that own upto 200 (yes thats right two hundred) houses each, which they rent out in central cardiff, all the prime city centre properties are rental, very rare to find families there now who actually own their own homes, so as a result houses are now a commodity that get traded for income (which is huge) a pokey one bed shoe-box will bring you £450 per month in the inner city areas. Students will gladly pay £225 per calendar month for a room in a shared house, so a six bed let will bring you £1350 per month, to buy it will cost you around £190,000

For a 2 bed house: Pay £130,000 max

For a 3 bed house: Pay £160,000 max

For a 4 bed house: Pay £180,000 max

The student market is going to INCREASE in Cardiff, because Glamorgan University which was a shitty poly about 15 miles north of Cardiff, has been granted huge money by the Welsh Assembly to move some departments to Cardiff, plus students coming to Wales won't have to pay huge top-up fees like English students.

There are NO real jobs outside of Cardiff, so the professional rental market is very strong here, Cardiff Bay is a big failure, loads of empty flats, take your pick if you move there but it is a soulless bland artificial place. Welsh Assembly will be pumping another £1billion into Cardiff during next 5-10 years, new shopping malls, ice skating centre, olympic style sports village in Bay.

Most landlords snapped up their properties around the early boom so they are not generally struggling to pay huge mortgages.

If you want to live in a shitty overpriced house (with no garden), then come to Cardiff, thats the way it is and thats the way its going to stay.

I know a few people that have lived in cardiff for the last 10 years plus and all of them bought when prices were reasonable. The thing is that they all have very big mortgages as they have used their equity for holidays, flashy cars etc. And now a few have interest only mortgages as that is now all they can afford. The streets are not paved with gold in cardiff- the vast majority of people work in call centres and commute from the even more deprived valleys.

To add to this, what annoys me more than anything is that all the money that is available to the welsh assembly is being spent in cardiff- what about the rest of wales which is FAR nore needy economically. Mid wales, where I am from, has no inward investment at all and there are hardly any jobs.

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What a load of rubbish. I'm sure the number of individuals who own 200 properties in central Cardiff can be counted on the fingers of one finger,if that.

>> My family owns 29 PROPERTIES and we are considered small fry, If you go to Salisbury Road, place called Wentworths, its a letting agents, they own so many houses they opened their own letting shop, ask them how many they own, (and I know landlords bigger then them, one owns an entire street).

And if you think you can pick up a city centre six bed place for £190,000 you must live in a different Cardiff from the one I do. Our two-up, one-down, mid-terrace on the outskirts recently sold for £220,000. We were renting it for £550 a month.

>> Wait there, you said it SOLD for £220,000 how much did the Landlord who was charging you £550 per month pay for it? Anyway, what I said was Student areas (INNER CITY) are strong, a 1 bed flat in Cardiff will bring in £500 per month, and cost around £120,000.

I will find you easily a house that can be let to 6 students for £190,000, and if its price dropped to £170,000 it would be snapped up...recently relatives of mine from London have been sniffing around Cardiff trying to buy in Cardiff as the they consider it 'cheap'.

That's a 3% yield. Nice. No wonder the landlord wanted out. I get more than that in my current account.

>>> People who have some balls to invest and make money drive markets my friend, I bought a house in Angus street in 1999 for £70,000 sold it in 2005 for £185,000...does your bank account offer that...? go to ourproperty.co.uk and check out selling prices in 1999 and 2005 for Cardiff, over 100% increase. We (Landlords) need people like you to rent from us and pay our mortgages, so I'm happy for you to keep believing in a crash...and it depends on your definition of a Crash, if I paid £50k for a property and it is now worth £150k, even if its value falls to £100k (which I doubt), I'm not going be bothered..especially if I've made £10k per year from it over the last 8 years...it means I've got £80k in rent and a house still worth £100k, so I have profited £130k in 8 years thats £16k per year, plus I retain my initial investment of £50k...does your local bank offer you that?

Yes, we have a university, whoopee-do. I hear they now have them in England too. And no, students coming into Wales will not have reduced top-up fees, they'll be keeping them as fully topped-up as anywhere else.

>>> Sorry I was not precise enough, Welsh students staying in Wales will not pay top-up fees, English will...same difference, really because those Welsh students that were going to England to study will be more inclined to stay in Wales.

Also Cardiff University was voted as one of the top destinations for students in the UK, and numbers are set to increase, because Glamorgan University are opening departments in Cardiff soon.

The reason property prices are so high is nothing to do with a buoyant rental market, it's the same as everywhere else, i.e. inexpensive and readily available credit has enabled prices to fully decouple from economic reality and the market is now driven by highly-geared speculative investment.

>> oh Dear..been hearing that since 2001...(its 2006 now and I've made thousands while you wait for your crash).

There's nothing crash proof about Cardiff, quite the contrary, and when the crash does come, the large rental stock will only ease the movement downward. Add to that the Bay's gaping vacuum of empty two-bedroom apartments and the results could be catastrophic. When the UK's house market eventually crashes, Cardiff's is going to implode.

>>> Key word is 'eventually' I will agree that prices are no longer going up by 30% a year, but they won't be crashing, I know PLENTY of people waiting in the wings, who have made a bundle of money from buying pre-boom waiting to buy on any weakness, if you missed the boat and didn't buy, I will tell you right now you made the single biggest financial mistake of your life...not only have you lost out on rent but those dream houses which were kind of expensive for you are now certainly out of your reach.

BTW yes there are loads of flats empty in the bay, its because nobody wants to live there, they all want to live inside Cardiff, thats why those areas are expensive and Crash Proof...Absolutely no way will there be a crash in the following areas of Cardiff...Canton, Whitchurch, Roath, Cardiff, Cathays, Pen-y-Lan, Cyncoed, Grangetown...price-drops will happen with new builds in outskirts of Cardiff.

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We're still watching the market from our current home in Surrey - still slightly stunned that house prices are very similar in Cardiff to here. We're looking more to the north of Cardiff and houses we were looking at 4/5 months ago are still there, some have shown price drops, but others remain at the same price. I'm not sure what it will take for people to set more realistic prices - how many people on average salaries can afford to spend £300k+ on family housing? We're still looking to rent or look for that realistically priced house....if it exists!

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We're still watching the market from our current home in Surrey - still slightly stunned that house prices are very similar in Cardiff to here. We're looking more to the north of Cardiff and houses we were looking at 4/5 months ago are still there, some have shown price drops, but others remain at the same price. I'm not sure what it will take for people to set more realistic prices - how many people on average salaries can afford to spend £300k+ on family housing? We're still looking to rent or look for that realistically priced house....if it exists!

According to figures in the Western Fail about 4 mths ago I'm in the top 10% of welsh earners - and I still can't afford a former council house 3 bed semi in Tongwynlais - despite having a 50k deposit :blink::blink:

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We wondered if the Vale of Glamorgan represented better value - Cowbridge, Ystradowen - it was always more expensive than Cardiff but now seems to be fairly similar. Like you renting doesn't appeal - we have three children, all of schooling age, so it would have been good to give them some stability immediately, also wherever we rent we'll have to end up buying in that area as the children will have started school. It is looking increasingly likely that we'll rent - not sure whether it'll be short term or long term. Any other observations out there?

careful about the school situation in Cardiff...the last thing you wanna do is move cos a particular school is "good" then find it's getting closed or merged....a big plan to radically alter the schools in Cardiff has just been thrown out......but it'll be back in some form or another over the years. At the moment for what it's worth Radyr and Whitchurch have good reputations, but Whitchurch is enormous - supposedly one of the biggest schools in Europe.....the maths dept has at least 13 teachers...the staff don't even know one another. Radyr much smaller. Primary-wise Tongwynlais is fantastic although the head is about to move, Gwaelod is very good as well, with small English Medium classes. Pentyrch and Creigau IMHO are not so hot. Radyr primaries are bursting at the seams.

House of cards!

A big wobbly house of cards on a rickety table on a ship in a gale!!!

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If I was moving to Cardiff then Llandaff, Whitchurch, Victoria Park would be on my list for central Cardiff... I would avoid the Bay and then if I was going further out I would look at one or two places in the Vale but be very wary about Cardiff Airport's expansion plans.

Saying that, I would not buy in Cardiff at the moment - the HPs are totally unjustifiable and I suspect when the global economy catches a cold the people of Wales will be made unemployed en masse again just like what occured in the 1980s.

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careful about the school situation in Cardiff...the last thing you wanna do is move cos a particular school is "good" then find it's getting closed or merged....a big plan to radically alter the schools in Cardiff has just been thrown out......but it'll be back in some form or another over the years. At the moment for what it's worth Radyr and Whitchurch have good reputations, but Whitchurch is enormous - supposedly one of the biggest schools in Europe.....the maths dept has at least 13 teachers...the staff don't even know one another. Radyr much smaller. Primary-wise Tongwynlais is fantastic although the head is about to move, Gwaelod is very good as well, with small English Medium classes. Pentyrch and Creigau IMHO are not so hot. Radyr primaries are bursting at the seams.

Due to where my husband works, Radyr/Creigiau look to be the obvious choices. Can you expand on why you think Creigiau is not so good - I've been round both Radyr Primary and Creigiau and liked both for different reasons. The housing in both places seems to be sticking at the moment - so it will be a question of where we can get rentals initially. Secondary looks to be Bishop of Llandaff or Radyr, but prices in Llandaff are that much higher plus we wanted more 'village' life than suburbs.

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Due to where my husband works, Radyr/Creigiau look to be the obvious choices. Can you expand on why you think Creigiau is not so good - I've been round both Radyr Primary and Creigiau and liked both for different reasons. The housing in both places seems to be sticking at the moment - so it will be a question of where we can get rentals initially. Secondary looks to be Bishop of Llandaff or Radyr, but prices in Llandaff are that much higher plus we wanted more 'village' life than suburbs.

I know 2 teachers at Radyr comp - both of them good sorts and both enjoy working there, I'd be very happy for mine to go there in due course.

(I'm presuming your after English medium primary - can't comment on Welsh) We got shown around Both Creigau and Pentyrch too.....had a bit of a frosty reception at Pentyrch...put us both right off there. Creigau was better but a, had no room for our eldest as it was full and b, had large class sizes.

Gwaelod y Garth is better - same idea as Creigau - ie English and Welsh schools on the same site but much smaller class sizes - turned a quiet child into a confident outgoing one and I can't speak highly enogh of the place, but in the recent rejig the Cardiff council plan was to bin english medium education there as not enough people.

Village life - you want Gwaelod too - it's like living in a Dylan Thomas novel!! Radyr is definetly a Cardiff suburb, Creigau seems to sit in a "hole" - it's quite dark up there - Pentyrch is almost permanently in low cloud. Radyr, Tongwynlais and Taff's Well/Gwaelod all are much sunnier. Where's your husband gonna be working??

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I know 2 teachers at Radyr comp - both of them good sorts and both enjoy working there, I'd be very happy for mine to go there in due course.

(I'm presuming your after English medium primary - can't comment on Welsh) We got shown around Both Creigau and Pentyrch too.....had a bit of a frosty reception at Pentyrch...put us both right off there. Creigau was better but a, had no room for our eldest as it was full and b, had large class sizes.

Gwaelod y Garth is better - same idea as Creigau - ie English and Welsh schools on the same site but much smaller class sizes - turned a quiet child into a confident outgoing one and I can't speak highly enogh of the place, but in the recent rejig the Cardiff council plan was to bin english medium education there as not enough people.

Village life - you want Gwaelod too - it's like living in a Dylan Thomas novel!! Radyr is definetly a Cardiff suburb, Creigau seems to sit in a "hole" - it's quite dark up there - Pentyrch is almost permanently in low cloud. Radyr, Tongwynlais and Taff's Well/Gwaelod all are much sunnier. Where's your husband gonna be working??

I've sent you a pm as I thought the discussion was moving away from house prices etc, hope that's ok.

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According to figures in the Western Fail about 4 mths ago I'm in the top 10% of welsh earners - and I still can't afford a former council house 3 bed semi in Tongwynlais - despite having a 50k deposit :blink::blink:

Just out of interest, what are the wages for the top 10% of earners in wales? In fact, what is the average wage in wales. Where I am from originally in mid wales, its got to be pretty low- what about south wales?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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