Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Margret Thatcher

Terminal Decline Of The Traditional British Family?

Recommended Posts

An article in today’s express discussed the decline in the replication of the middle class population.

It blamed the low birth rate of the middle classes on sky High house prices, consumer debt as well as labour policy.

It went on to say the middle classes are being replaced by two groups; immigrants (specifically Asian Muslims) and the underclass that are breading much more rapidly.

Both groups it says create problems by proliferating very quickly but it went mostly into the problems of the breeding underclass. It blames Labours welfare policies (in trying to eradicate child poverty) for providing financial incentives to the most unsuitable candidates for child-rearing.

It says a better social policy would be to deter the underclass and encourage hardworking middle class people who make better parents to start families rather than working to pick up the extra welfare payments.

It likens Gordon Brown to a perverse gardener watering weeds and brambles whilst allowing the blooms to wither and die for lack of space and light.

I suppose if houses crash some of the middle clases may end up the underclass themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A strange comment by the Express - I always saw them as the houserag of the Chav. At least one papers willing to do some straight talking. Why haven't the 'middle class' papers covered this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Vim Fuego

A strange comment by the Express - I always saw them as the houserag of the Chav. At least one papers willing to do some straight talking. Why haven't the 'middle class' papers covered this?

The Daily Express methinks is the paper that cries wolf too often. Mind you, the whole newspaper/media establishment is a load of crap....Guardian, Independant, Sun, Mirror....a load of bolloxz all of 'em.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A strange comment by the Express - I always saw them as the houserag of the Chav. At least one papers willing to do some straight talking. Why haven't the 'middle class' papers covered this?

Maybe they've all gone out of print as their readership has died off? :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An article in today’s express discussed the decline in the replication of the middle class population.

It blamed the low birth rate of the middle classes on sky High house prices, consumer debt as well as labour policy.

It went on to say the middle classes are being replaced by two groups; immigrants (specifically Asian Muslims) and the underclass that are breading much more rapidly.

Both groups it says create problems by proliferating very quickly but it went mostly into the problems of the breeding underclass. It blames Labours welfare policies (in trying to eradicate child poverty) for providing financial incentives to the most unsuitable candidates for child-rearing.

It says a better social policy would be to deter the underclass and encourage hardworking middle class people who make better parents to start families rather than working to pick up the extra welfare payments.

It likens Gordon Brown to a perverse gardener watering weeds and brambles whilst allowing the blooms to wither and die for lack of space and light.

I suppose if houses crash some of the middle clases may end up the underclass themselves.

Here in Sweden, there's a bit of a baby boom going on. The cause is put down to several policies that impact the average family in a way that helps them to afford the children more easily. One of them is generous child benefit payments available to all, another very important one is a cap by law on a person's nursery fees (the majority of nursery's are govt owned in Sweden) to no more than 4% of their income. It used to be uncapped. There is also very generous maternity leave lasting for 2 full years after birth.

IMO these are important incentives to have children & we taxpayers should be willing to pay for things like this as they target all of us, but we only draw on them when we make our contribution to society in a human form if you know what I mean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here in Sweden, there's a bit of a baby boom going on. The cause is put down to several policies that impact the average family in a way that helps them to afford the children more easily.

I think you're deluding yourself, Sweden's fertility rate (1.75) is barely any better than the UK's (1.74).

"Still, a generous family policy programme is no guarantee for a high fertility level, says Marit Ronsen at Statistics Norway. To illustrate her point, she uses neighbouring Sweden as an example.
"Sweden's family policies have been at least as generous as ours. Yet their birth rates have not improved.
"Sweden experienced a period of slack in the economy that soon led to a sharp rise in unemployment. Soon after, fertility declined from 2.1 children per woman in 1992 to about 1.5 in 1997.
"In economically insecure times, people tend to postpone having children," Ms Ronsen says.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you're deluding yourself, Sweden's fertility rate (1.75) is barely any better than the UK's (1.74).

"Still, a generous family policy programme is no guarantee for a high fertility level, says Marit Ronsen at Statistics Norway. To illustrate her point, she uses neighbouring Sweden as an example.
"Sweden's family policies have been at least as generous as ours. Yet their birth rates have not improved.
"Sweden experienced a period of slack in the economy that soon led to a sharp rise in unemployment. Soon after, fertility declined from 2.1 children per woman in 1992 to about 1.5 in 1997.
"In economically insecure times, people tend to postpone having children," Ms Ronsen says.

Using old numbers is a good way to stuff up your research, those are from 2004. The 4% maximum childcare cost was introduced 2 years ago.

I am reliably informed by a friend who is a politician in Stockholm that the rate is estimated to be closer to 2 & rising now and that they are struggling to make enough places available for the babies. But they are willing to make the necessary investment to keep this boom going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It went on to say the middle classes are being replaced by two groups; immigrants (specifically Asian Muslims) and the underclass that are breading much more rapidly.

Both groups it says create problems by proliferating very quickly but it went mostly into the problems of the breeding underclass. It blames Labours welfare policies (in trying to eradicate child poverty) for providing financial incentives to the most unsuitable candidates for child-rearing.

I've been banging on about this for years.

Middle class kids go to uni, get careers and debt and put off having children until later so either don't have any or have very few. Also middle class make decisions on whether to have kids/how many and whether they can afford them and unfortunately nowadays the answer is often 'no'.

The underclass on the other hand make their living out of having kids

I think you're deluding yourself, Sweden's fertility rate (1.75) is barely any better than the UK's (1.74).

I read recently that the UK fertility rate has fallen to 1.3

Family size shrinking due to cost of children

By Sarah Womack, Social Affairs Correspondent

(Filed: 10/04/2006)

Late motherhood, the price of housing and the spiralling cost of raising children is causing the British family to shrink.

New figures suggest that the average family now has 1.3 children, almost half the size of the traditional family of 30 years ago - mother, father and 2.4 children

It's a serious problem.

Another article said that in the UK we are having 90,000 too few births each year to replace the population.

The gaps will be filled in by immigration. This country will be unrecognisable in 25-50 years time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using old numbers is a good way to stuff up your research, those are from 2004. The 4% maximum childcare cost was introduced 2 years ago.

I am reliably informed by a friend who is a politician in Stockholm that the rate is estimated to be closer to 2 & rising now

Shag-tastic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The gaps will be filled in by immigration. This country will be unrecognisable in 25-50 years time.

I should hope so. Be very dull otherwise.

On other matters, I was having lunch today with a Swedish colleague (ex-SAS hostie...) Apparently, according to her, women in Sweden get 18 months full maternity pay from their employers. May all be nonsense...

Just as bad: there's a Dutch company that gives eight months full mat pay... and if you come back to your desk and last six months they give you another six months salary as a lump sum bonus.

In the UK... statutory GBP 100 a week.

No wonder people put off having kids. My worry is that we're going to over run by the Dutch and Swedes what with their smelly foreign cooking, vestigal tails and all.

ab

Edited by aussieboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was something about framilies on tv/news recently about how friends are building families with their friends as they're not having a family of their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you unpack this for me a bit more?

Maybe you could take a package holiday? Apparently the London Olympics were won the basis of how un-British the city is, it's overun by bloody Aussies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe you could take a package holiday? Apparently the London Olympics were won the basis of how un-British the city is, it's overun by bloody Aussies.

OK, I love Aussies, I love everyone, etc etc, but isn't it mildly offensive to suggest that the UK needs improving with immigrants, i.e. the folk already here aren't that great?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I love Aussies, I love everyone, etc etc, but isn't it mildly offensive to suggest that the UK needs improving with immigrants, i.e. the folk already here aren't that great?

I think self-hatred has a role in the formation of a good number of our policies.

Take Anthony Crossland's determination to “close down every ******ing grammar school”, he himself went to Highgate School and Trinity College, I'm sure every clever kid now rotting away on their council estates appreciate his battle against his given social mores.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guy_Montag

Superbly expressed point. If our leaders all went into therapy and stayed there and no one made up as much as a bylaw for a decade, the country would flourish.

I always think the next govt. (regardless of colour) should set themselves the objective not making any major changes, just simplifing & tidying up current legislation for the first five years.

After that it would be nice if parties would subject their policies to trials, in the same way that new drugs are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it makes a change from the council tax/house price crash vs house prices booming headlines/travellers headlines which the Express tends to rotate on its front page.

It is very true though - and when you see on the entitledto site that 90% of families qualify for tax credits you realise quite how farcical the tax and benefits system is in this country. Its sad but true but particularly in London you are far better off on the dole than working in a low paid job.

One last fine example. £150m is paid out in housing benefit annually - of which only £30m goes to council tenants - to subsidise people to live in the City of Westminster (Marylebone, Paddington, Pimlico, St Johns Wood etc etc). I could never hope to be able to live in Westminster - being stupid enough of course to work for a living!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One last fine example. £150m is paid out in housing benefit annually - of which only £30m goes to council tenants - to subsidise people to live in the City of Westminster (Marylebone, Paddington, Pimlico, St Johns Wood etc etc). I could never hope to be able to live in Westminster - being stupid enough of course to work for a living!

There are some very dodgy estates between Holborn, up towards Kings Cross, and out towards Islington. The usual mixtures of hard drugs, (used to be heroin, now crack is sold openly just yards from the British Museum since Camden cracked down (scuse the pun) in their manor), useless spongers and criminals.

I wouldn't live in London, whatever the postcode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Winners and Losers

I wouldn't live anywhere else !!

The most exciting city in the world in all ways both good and bad :)

Plus so many hot exotic women ..... :D

Except you live in Surrey. :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't live anywhere else !!

The most exciting city in the world in all ways both good and bad :)

That's why a dozen lanes of the M25 are blocked each and every evening with people trying to escape ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The alternative solution to child poverty in inner London methinks - take the kids away from the chavs at birth and give them to middle class couples (who wouldn't then require so much maternity leave!). The Chinese have a one child policy - how about one child only for people on benefits in the UK.

God I am starting to sound like a bit of a fascist - I'll have to start reading the Daily Express!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.