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Omg My House Has Been Flipped !


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Hhmmm. In Australia you can sell your 'investment' property within 6 years (whilst not living in it) and not pay CGT. After that you have to have been living in it for 12 months if you want to sell it without paying CGT. If I were to buy a property in the UK however and decided to sell the Australian property before the 6 years, I would be liable to CGT as it is not my 'main residence' anymore. So, are you saying that in the UK you can own 10 properties, none of which are your 'main residence' and sell them without paying any CGT? If that is the case, no wonder BTL is booming. I think it needs more checking personally. I am happy to be told I am wrong though (again! :rolleyes: ).

Yes, if you have been non-resident from the UK for over 5 years.

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Well, the mortgage advisor bought Terrified's house, expecting to be able to profit by selling it for more. That might succeed or fail, so it's a (deceitful) gamble.

STRs sell a house expecting to be able to profit from a fall in prices, which they presumably expect to affect the purchaser of their house as well. That's their gamble.

Maybe he chose a trollish way to make the point, but I'm not sure there's such a massive moral gap. Do all STRs tell the people they sell to "Of course I expect the price to drop next year, so I'm selling while the price is high"?

Whether it succeeds or fails could depend on how deceitful the EAs and mortgage advisors were.

What happens if there were some good offers for terrified's house at the previous price level. Then if the EAs didn't pass on these offers, but filed them, the mortgage advisor could buy the house and then approach the people who made the previous offer. If this was the case, then the house might sell quite quickly. If this is the case then the house will disappear quickly.

Billy Shears

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Whether it succeeds or fails could depend on how deceitful the EAs and mortgage advisors were.

Good point, as in that case the buyers would have been confident of winning their gamble, based on information they had wrongfully withheld.

Incidentally terrified, sorry we're all wittering on about your situation in such a theoretical way - obviously for you this is a major issue, and it's good of you to bring it to the forum as it is in interesting situation. As another poster said, I hope it sells for less than you got in 6 months time in which case you can laugh about it.

Edited by Magpie
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I'm speechless. The utter greed of people. Unbelievable. Splutter... splutter...

Yet again the good fortune of others is described as "greed" etc. This website should be recoloured into a shade of green.

Good luck to the lady. She's unlikely to hit the target price, but I admire the spirit of the person, and take my hat off to her - I haven't the guts to make such a gamble at the moment!

So who do I respect, the loser in bedsitland moaning about greed, or the person who's stuck her neck out, taken the gamble, and tried in life? Go figure.

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It always amazes me how many vendors make little or no effort to present their property in the best light and then wonder why, in a crowded market, no one makes an offer! :huh:

ISTR that terrified had had tenents in this property for a year (whilst it was for sale?) who had left it 'looking like a bomb site' in her own words!!!!!

I remember seeing pictures of the property when it was still owned by Terrified and although I don't think that it's worth 80k more now it does look considerably better. I don't think the pictures that were taken by the EA acting on her behalf did it much justice either, some of these EA shouldn't be let loose with a digital camera plus by her own admission it was in need of some revamping.

I'll be suprised if it fetches the current asking price but I'm sure they'll got more people through the door purely on the basis of presentation.

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Do all STRs tell the people they sell to "Of course I expect the price to drop next year, so I'm selling while the price is high"?

Exactly.

Furthermore, people who STR "due to the imminent crash" do so on the assumption that the market is peaking. Therefore, by their own admission, their *own* house that they are selling must be overvalued.

You will hear planty of STRs harping on about stupid high prices AFTER they have sold and cashed in their nice big profits, but do you ever hear this BEFORE? Would any righteous STR who complains about stupid, unsustainable, high prices ever sell their own house at a more 'realistic', knock down price (let's say 30% off typical MV) ? Would they ****!

There is a degree of hypocrisy and greed in the STR Pro-crash Bear mentality that I am only just realising.

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Hi TTTR, I`ve logged a call to my accountant who is also a Tax Specialist. I will become you and ask what my position would be with UK Tax laws. I find your statement very interesting. As you know you have in the past referred to living in NZ where CGT does not apply. Will come back later to check you are right.

It would be interesting to know if a foreign landlord owning property in the UK can escape UK CGT when selling up and taking his profits abroad tax free.

Since you mentioned this. In doing more research on that, I discovered that NZ would, rather than consider it CG, consider profit from a sale to be normal income for a landlord and would probably tax it as straight income.

So the search is on for a better location. I'm told Spain is a good one, do you have any suggestions? I prefer English speaking if poss. Thanks.

Edited by Time to raise the rents.
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Guest Charlie The Tramp

Since you mentioned this. In doing more research on that, I discovered that NZ would, rather than consider it CG, consider profit from a sale to be normal income for a landlord and would probably tax it as straight income.

So the search is on for a better location. I'm told Spain is a good one, do you have any suggestions? I prefer English speaking if poss. Thanks.

Might be worth while checking on Jersey and the other Channel Islands.

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Guest Winners and Losers

Since you mentioned this. In doing more research on that, I discovered that NZ would, rather than consider it CG, consider profit from a sale to be normal income for a landlord and would probably tax it as straight income.

So the search is on for a better location. I'm told Spain is a good one, do you have any suggestions? I prefer English speaking if poss. Thanks.

Will you stop at nothing in your pursuit of the mighty dollar!! ;):rolleyes:

Btw, I told you both so. I knew there would be a catch.

Edited by Winners and Losers
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Yet again the good fortune of others is described as "greed" etc. This website should be recoloured into a shade of green.

Good luck to the lady. She's unlikely to hit the target price, but I admire the spirit of the person, and take my hat off to her - I haven't the guts to make such a gamble at the moment!

So who do I respect, the loser in bedsitland moaning about greed, or the person who's stuck her neck out, taken the gamble, and tried in life? Go figure.

Yes, you have much disdain for this website. It's a wonder why you even bother posting!

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Exactly.

Furthermore, people who STR "due to the imminent crash" do so on the assumption that the market is peaking. Therefore, by their own admission, their *own* house that they are selling must be overvalued.

You will hear planty of STRs harping on about stupid high prices AFTER they have sold and cashed in their nice big profits, but do you ever hear this BEFORE? Would any righteous STR who complains about stupid, unsustainable, high prices ever sell their own house at a more 'realistic', knock down price (let's say 30% off typical MV) ? Would they ****!

There is a degree of hypocrisy and greed in the STR Pro-crash Bear mentality that I am only just realising.

Yes - it doesn't necessarily mean that it's immoral to STR. After all, we are all looking out for ourselves in one way or another. But it's still gambling on future house price movements for personal gain - in which respect it is not so dissimilar to flipping or BTLing.

So too much sanctimony about greed on the other side can come across as a bit absurd when it comes from STRs.

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The house certainly needed some work doing to it, which I had £12,000 to spend on doing it up, but I was told over and over not just by this agent but every other agent in Stratford upon Avon not to spend the money but to price it correctly - next door sold for £316k in the May 2004, so we were told the correct price was £285k as we had less garden and it did need recarpeting throughout etc.

TBH I wasn't posting on here from the "we've been robbed blind" prospective because we simply did not have the time to do the work ourselves, the money to pay the mortgage whilst it stood empty and we gave it a make over then waited for it to sell, or indeed the inclination on the basis that we have never had another offer other than the one we accepted.

The bit I am pissing myself laughing about is the fact that the floor in the top bedroom is bowed, there's damp, the kitchen is tiny beyond belief, the garden is tiny, there's no way of parking outside your own front door and we had it on with every agent in Stratford at some point and around 60 viewings and not one offer.

I find it hard to believe a lick of paint, a new kitchen and a £50k price increase is going to be enough to have the buyers flocking to their door <_<

We also haven't STR by choice, we would like to buy but earning £80k a year and you can all see for yourselves how much equity we have just wasn't/isn't enough to buy a family home any more, it's utter madness.

Edited by terrified
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Sorry but you have missed the point completely about the 250k barrier. It's hard to sell a property for more than 250 if it's a little over (say 2560) but once it gets over 250, and it is obviously over, it leaps up. Your buyer has spent just enough to make it look well above 250 and so she will be able to get a good price - if it's on for 335 she will probably take an offer at 300

This forum is so wrong - I thought things were cooling off and so put our property on at a realistic price - got so many offers we withdrew it and put it on at a higher price. It's under offer again, very near to the new asking price!

Unfortunately, you have just learnt the hard way.

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Guest Fiddlesticks

We also haven't STR by choice, we would like to buy but earning £80k a year and you can all see for yourselves how much equity we have just wasn't/isn't enough to buy a family home any more, it's utter madness.

Doesn't seem that hard ...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-492...pa_n=1&tr_t=buy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-113...pa_n=1&tr_t=buy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-574...pa_n=2&tr_t=buy

... etc

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It is number 4 btw

I'm very sorry to hear it.

Which means you were shafted.

The property increased in value only by 12% between 23/4/01 -30/1/06?

I think not. They saw you coming.

Is it true someone here advised you to get another agent?

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First one - wrong side of town - opposite council estate

Second - bedroom 2 is 7' x 8' and 4 is smaller

Third - two paved terraces as a garden isn't really very much use for four children under 6 yrs

In all of those examples we'd be better off staying in the house we sold but thanks for your imput.

I'm very sorry to hear it.

Which means you were shafted.

The property increased in value only by 12% between 23/4/01 -30/1/06?

I think not. They saw you coming.

Is it true someone here advised you to get another agent?

We had been to every agent in Stratford, we were on with all 6 at some point and didn't recieve a single offer.

Edited by terrified
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Let's see what this sells for people.

This could be the proof of our pudding.

Agreed.

But assuming there's not much difference between no.4 and no.3 (which sold for £316k on 29.3.2004), the current selling price for no.4 may appear competitive to someone who could 'afford' it.

I'll bet it will be 'sale agreed' within two weeks.

If the forest of for sale signs in Shrewsbury marked 'sale agreed' is anything to go by.

Edited by Baz63
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Exactly.

Furthermore, people who STR "due to the imminent crash" do so on the assumption that the market is peaking. Therefore, by their own admission, their *own* house that they are selling must be overvalued.

You will hear planty of STRs harping on about stupid high prices AFTER they have sold and cashed in their nice big profits, but do you ever hear this BEFORE?

Not from STR'ers no............. Jeez some forum members could win a medal for stupidity.................

Would any righteous STR who complains about stupid, unsustainable, high prices ever sell their own house at a more 'realistic', knock down price (let's say 30% off typical MV) ? Would they ****!

There is a degree of hypocrisy and greed in the STR Pro-crash Bear mentality that I am only just realising.

There's an even bigger degree of stupidity in evidence in your post. :ph34r:

STR's make a financial decision to sell into a market they believe is due for a correction, what bit of that concept are you feebly struggling with ? There is nothing self righteous in the fact they explain the reasons behind the decision they made.

One thing that is plain as a "pike staff" is the fact you are very envious of those who believe they are protecting their families financial well being by selling out at the top of a market.......envy is an unhealthy obsession that can damage your mental health.........and the evidence is there for all to see :rolleyes:

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For me this example raises another issue - not discussed in this post yet - which is the huge buffer sellers apply if they are selling a property over the 250k (stamp duty threshold). It seems to me that sellers of such properties add tens of thousands just to make it look like the property is defintely "worth" paying the 3% stamp on. It's as if the tacit admission of anything priced at £270k or less is that you will get lots of buyers offering £250k. I could just be talking [email protected]

I think you're spot on. My thoughts exactly & exactly why I am always suspicious when I see stuff on for around the £300k mark.

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Not all do, but I did when we spoke. They laughed and told me houses never drop and renting is dead money.

Good for you then, and I can believe there would be plenty of buyers who'd laugh it off in the same way - obviously when I make a sweeping statement like that it will be unfair to plenty of people, including yourself so my apologies...

Edited by Magpie
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STR's make a financial decision to sell into a market they believe is due for a correction, what bit of that concept are you feebly struggling with ? There is nothing self righteous in the fact they explain the reasons behind the decision they made.

One thing that is plain as a "pike staff" is the fact you are very envious of those who believe they are protecting their families financial well being by selling out at the top of a market

I completely agree that everyone has the right to do what they think is best for themselves. When people here simply explain the reasons behind their decision then of course there's no reason to judge one speculative decision as being morally better or worse than another - a lot of us are gambling on the market in one way or another at this stage. When I occasionally niggle at STRs there is indeed an element of envy - I'm not proud of it, but as someone who was priced out completely for a long time I guess I do envy someone who is in a position of enough security to be able to take that gamble in the first place.

But I think sometimes STRs here do go beyond explaining their reasons to criticising the greed and self-interest of BTLs, flippers etc - and then it can come across as a bit sanctimonious or self-righteous as they are simply taking an opposite gamble. And sometimes they wish a bit too fervently for economic devastation (cf recent bird flu threads etc) and then I find it uncomfortable as it seems like wishing ill on others in the hope of personal gain.

It's tricky - I'm sure I also say plenty of things here that are self-righteous or self-interested so it's hard to criticise really. I suppose I just find it hard to see some speculation (STR /gold etc) as good, and some (BTL / flip) as bad. The latter did more harm in fueling HPI, for sure, but in the end both are just an accumulation of people trying to get on and look after their own interests.

Edited by Magpie
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