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Morocco - My Next Target


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Does he know the year round temperature in Saidia ??

Does he have ANY idea what type of SUNSHINE it is over here (***** THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION *****) ??

I have never been to Saidia and I have never been interested in buying there. But from the discussion with BIglog I reached the following conclusion:

- the King of MOrocco is a smart man and he realized he cannot build his country with MOroccan money.

- he also knew that Spanish prroperty is over-the-top overvalued and over the top over-flipped.

This is when he created his "2010 program", knowing that people will pay lots of money for possible houses in MOrocco.

- then the contact was made with builders like Emaar and Fadesa which were almost guaranteed some hefty profits if they give a part of the money for building infrastructure in MOrocco.

So the prices for property in Saidia and all other new developments in Morocco contain a 25%-50% sum

which is to be used by MOrocco to build infrastructure.

So, indeed, western buyers are paying for the infrastructure in MOrocco. Which I think is OK and fair.

This is why the prices in Morocco are about 50% bigger than they should be. NO mistery.

Edited by catara
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Biglog

You seem to be confusing yourself with the rather pleasant seaside town of Morocco, which is currently a functioning town and tourist resort and the future resort of Mediterranea Saidia which is in the early stages of building. The marina has already been built - it was flooded in May. Saidia is the resort used currently by Moroccans and any other mainly Spanish tourists in the area. Mediterranea Saidia can only be owned by foriegners and is obviously going to become a huge tourist destination. And before you start slagging me off, yes I have visited both, albeit briefly. However much you knock it, Mediterranea Saidia is going to become a huge, very important tourist destination. If the foreigners don't buy into that, the king's plans will fail.

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BigLog,

I have been a regular reader and an occasional poster on this site, and thought it was about time to convey my thoughts on your posts. I wonder if you would be so kind as to answer this question for me.

How come you have chosen to move to Morocco and invest your money building a business there if it is indeed such a dreadful place? I assume that you are not stuck there against your own wishes?

I have read your previous posts saying that you are unwilling to share your experiences 'for free', but surely these opinions/experiences would only serve to add credibility to your arguments. Rather than saying 'I have my reasons which I am not disclosing' and then rubbishing Saidia, you could genuinely help people who are trying to make an informed purchase of a holiday home/investment property. Buyers in Saidia aren’t necessarily the exploitative opportunistic demons which you make them out to be - have you considered some may be priced out of other markets such as Spain/Portugal and are looking for a holiday property near the beach with a decent climate.

Your posts are currently serving only to create doubts in the minds of those purchasing, whilst offering absolutely no hard evidence to substantiate them. You are probably the person with the best personal experience of the place, but offer the least information. If it is such a genuinely dreadful place are you really going to be pleased when many lose substantial savings in the knowledge that you could have prevented this – If that is the case it really puts you in a negative light, and I would hope you prove me wrong.

If your experiences are worth sharing (and I am sure they are) then please do, otherwise you really are wasting a lot of peoples time, and causing a great deal of unnecessary stress to others.

Completely agree with your statement..whilst both Big Log & Dogbox comments are of interest & give information from both sides of the coin the first time..this endless re-statement on both sides is just pointless

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This has turned into the best thread on this site!

Dogbox. You seem to be confusing risk with opportunity. Just because something is high risk it doesn't make it a good opportunity. It is true that there is more money to be made on a start up investment, but you're also carrying all the risk. When you say that Morocco is your "best ever investment" what you mean is that it is your biggest ever punt.

If there is money to be made from Morocco, then the opportunity will still be there when all the gamblers have put their money on the table.

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everything in life is a risk..you need to take some risks at times to get on..i am purchasing an apartment in the greens..my viewing trip has been arranged for next month..it does not matter that its a building site or that it could take upto 2 yrs to fully develop the site..i agree that the climate and the resort itself may not aid in the letting of my apartment at times but as long as it covers my costs, i dont mind..i intend using it as a holiday home..if i dont like the resort, then i will try reselling my apartment , with a view of covering all my costs...

i am willing to take the gamble that the resort will prove popular...if it does and becomes established,i dont want to be in aposition of having to pay more than what i am paying for it now....that is the risk i am willing to take..

i work for an airline, and know from experience that many people are willing to go on holiday off season as its cheaper...

this resort once built may prove to be popular to golfers and families alike...

anyway, i can understand Big Log's comments about the culture and country and maybe he does not want too many tourists spoiling the part of the country his wife is from...but ,y aim is to keep the aprtment as i share the same faith as the muslims and the sound of the call to prayer is one of the sweetest sounds..

my only gripe is that as he says he lives there , could he not offer some advice...pros/cons about the area and country?

also as for it gettin colder after july/august, i will see that first hand next month...i have also read that alot of people still go to that part of morocco for holiday...and as for him goin on holiday there and not havin too much to do, i feel that people who do decide to go there for holiday will do so because the resort is all inclusive with alot of facilities and activities...you just need to read about the whole project..

i went to barcelona last year,,spent 3 days then went onto portaventura ( the universal studios park about an hour and a half train ride from barcelona). I stayed in one of the 3 hotels within the complex..they had free tram rides to the park and alot of activities whilst stayin in the hotel complex...

now apart from the park and the hotel, there was not alot else to do...the nearest town was a few miles away and it was a small town..however, the universal resort is fully booked normally...hopefully the same with morocco.

ah..i forgot to mention, whilst i was in spain in the universal aprk, the majority of the visitors there were local spaniards...this resort in saidia will be aimed at all countries and not just the english, as some people in this thread seem to imply with concerns over the weather and local culture etc...you must remember that morocco is already a tourist destination with the french and spanish, who are more familiar with moroccoan culture and country....

so please, if anyone can offer some constructive advice/opinion then please do so, otherwise this conflicting viewpoint argument between some of the members of this forum is gettin a bit tedious.

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"So the prices for property in Saidia and all other new developments in Morocco contain a 25%-50% sum

which is to be used by MOrocco to build infrastructure.

So, indeed, western buyers are paying for the infrastructure in MOrocco. Which I think is OK and fair.

This is why the prices in Morocco are about 50% bigger than they should be. NO mistery."

Ok Catara - I think that your argument has just considerably weakened. Coming back to your point - prices are 50% too high in order to pay for infrastructure and development of the country. Interesting that you say that, and really its a bit of a moot point, a bit chicken and egg.

Good infrastructure and transport links will only serve to improve Morocco as a tourist destination, and so if they are 25% - 50% higher than they should be you are basing that on current conditions and infrastructure. However if those monies are being set aside for improvements (which i'm all for) then surely your whole calculation is flawed. 25% - 50% higher than they should be with poor infrastucture...maybe/maybe not..... 25% - 50% too high if roads are improved, airports expanded, rail connections upgraded, etc etc etc... certainly not.

You have actually reassured me that Saidia has the potential to become a great tourist destination (and i stress potential). What would really concern me is if the properties were 50% higher than they should be and none of the gentrification/improvements were going on. By making these improvements, which are almost certainly partly funded by western monies via inward investment, the King is facing the long term future, which inevitably feeds through to property prices.

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everything in life is a risk..you need to take some risks at times to get on..i am purchasing an apartment in the greens..my viewing trip has been arranged for next month..it does not matter that its a building site or that it could take upto 2 yrs to fully develop the site..i agree that the climate and the resort itself may not aid in the letting of my apartment at times but as long as it covers my costs, i dont mind..i intend using it as a holiday home..if i dont like the resort, then i will try reselling my apartment , with a view of covering all my costs...

i am willing to take the gamble that the resort will prove popular...if it does and becomes established,i dont want to be in aposition of having to pay more than what i am paying for it now....that is the risk i am willing to take..

i work for an airline, and know from experience that many people are willing to go on holiday off season as its cheaper...

this resort once built may prove to be popular to golfers and families alike...

anyway, i can understand Big Log's comments about the culture and country and maybe he does not want too many tourists spoiling the part of the country his wife is from...but ,y aim is to keep the aprtment as i share the same faith as the muslims and the sound of the call to prayer is one of the sweetest sounds..

my only gripe is that as he says he lives there , could he not offer some advice...pros/cons about the area and country?

also as for it gettin colder after july/august, i will see that first hand next month...i have also read that alot of people still go to that part of morocco for holiday...and as for him goin on holiday there and not havin too much to do, i feel that people who do decide to go there for holiday will do so because the resort is all inclusive with alot of facilities and activities...you just need to read about the whole project..

i went to barcelona last year,,spent 3 days then went onto portaventura ( the universal studios park about an hour and a half train ride from barcelona). I stayed in one of the 3 hotels within the complex..they had free tram rides to the park and alot of activities whilst stayin in the hotel complex...

now apart from the park and the hotel, there was not alot else to do...the nearest town was a few miles away and it was a small town..however, the universal resort is fully booked normally...hopefully the same with morocco.

ah..i forgot to mention, whilst i was in spain in the universal aprk, the majority of the visitors there were local spaniards...this resort in saidia will be aimed at all countries and not just the english, as some people in this thread seem to imply with concerns over the weather and local culture etc...you must remember that morocco is already a tourist destination with the french and spanish, who are more familiar with moroccoan culture and country....

so please, if anyone can offer some constructive advice/opinion then please do so, otherwise this conflicting viewpoint argument between some of the members of this forum is gettin a bit tedious.

KWS and others ;If you only intend to use as a holiday home,have you considered a shared ownership arrangement-seems a large outlay for many unoccupied weeks!?I have also reserved on "The Greens" with the same objective but am also interested in purchasing on the Atlantic coast -possibly Tanjah or Emaars Tinjah development

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"Ok Catara - I think that your argument has just considerably weakened. Coming back to your point - prices are 50% too high in order to pay for infrastructure and development of the country. Interesting that you say that, and really its a bit of a moot point, a bit chicken and egg.

I did not have any argument against property in MOrocco, I was just shocked by the prices. But now I understand.

It is just in European countries the governments build the infrastructure, whereas in MOrocco the foreign

investors build the infrastructure. It is OK though, I shall use that improved infracture when I shall visit MOrocco in the future.

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I did not have any argument against property in MOrocco, I was just shocked by the prices. But now I understand.

It is just in European countries the governments build the infrastructure, whereas in MOrocco the foreign

investors build the infrastructure. It is OK though, I shall use that improved infracture when I shall visit MOrocco in the future.

OK - as everyone has been banging on about Infrastructure (and lack of it) in Morocco, I thought I'd just throw in a few facts about the "new" resort in Saidia and how much is being spent on the infrastructure. Here goes:

  • Roadworks - 13million euros (25km)

    Concrete Conduits - 4 million euros

    Pumping Station 1.3 million euros

    Water Pipes - 2 million euros

    Storage Tank - 1.5 million euros

    Sewage Treatment (30,000 capacity) - 5.2 million euros

    Harbour - 3million euros

    Development of Port area - 9 million euros

    Irrigation - 2.3million euros

    Telephones (construction & cables) - 2 million euros

    Electricity (Transformers, Power Lines, Generators, Steet Lamps) - 5.5 million euros

Are investors of the "new" resort paying for the infrastructure? Probably. Is it worth the extra cost? Yes, I think so. It should also be noted that new Motorways and roads are being built that lead to Saidia. I travelled along the new road from Melilla-Saidia and was very impressed. If anything, it was actually a little over-engineered (which may have been a case of more jobs for the boys).

One of my concerns about investing in Morocco was the infrastructure and particularly lack of water in a golf resort. However after visiting, and gathering the facts about the construction, I no longer have any fears. I still think the investment is not without risks, but on balance, it's a worth an educated punt.

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KWS and others ;If you only intend to use as a holiday home,have you considered a shared ownership arrangement-seems a large outlay for many unoccupied weeks!?I have also reserved on "The Greens" with the same objective but am also interested in purchasing on the Atlantic coast -possibly Tanjah or Emaars Tinjah development

hi, yes i have considered goin in with a few people and that is what i am doing. i am goin in with few close friends,..we are in nthe process of gettin legal advice about the pros/cons of settin up a ltd company and , between us, the total outlay per person is minimised as is the risk...

we are also lookin at the golden mile and maybe casablanca..but we will decide that upon our visit...

i spoke tosaffron villas at the time of reservation and was told that they have few more groups goin in...they mentioned a group of friends from usa, who had reserved there aswell..

can i just ask what block you have reserved on?

the greens are on golf course 2 and have le jardin de fleur villas , both in front and behind them..so is a good location...there was a post here by propertyshowrooms about some england footballers purchasing villas...well if you look at the plan, they are behind the greens....so maybe LGDF and Oasis have had more press, but the Greens are in a good location too.

what are your views?

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We have purchased a 2 bedroom ground floor Magnum apartment.

Realistically what do people think will be:

1. The number of weeks that we will be able to rent it out for in a year

2. What wwekly rent can we expect?

3. How percentage will we have to pay an agent

OR

4. As thse are fully serviced apartments would we better of letting it ourselves and if so which sites do you recomend?

Many Thanks

Gavin

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What concerns me most about this thread and others on Saidia, Morocco is I think it is a disgusting attempt to guerilla market this complex.

As somebody with experience on how this type of posting can market individual products and projects I can clearly see very distinct and common patterns appearing that point to this. Let me point out a few of the more obvious ones:

1. Most people posting in these threads have only ever posted in these threads and usually have less than 10 posts. So you find somebody enters the discussion saying "yes I too have bought in Saidia and it is a great investment in my opinion". You then look and it is there first or second post and they have recently joined the site.

2. An unnaturally high percentage of people on this discussion thread have actually bought something in the development. It would be a rather large coincidence if I was to say "hey i've bought in a development on the outskirts of Paris" and then just one other person buying there came on to the site and posted that they had also bought something there. The probability of all of these people having invested in Saidia and coming across this website is enormous. This isn't a discussion that has evolved naturally and this is clear.

3. Posts are unnatural in a lot of instances. Your average poster will display some form of emotion and often leading questions are posed in order for other "purchasers" to answer and in turn create further "hype".

4. Dogbox is IMO what we term a "catalyst" poster. He as, I believe, genuinely invested in Saidia and is a genuine poster on HPC forums. A simple explanation may be that he has told other Saidia investors about this discussion thread and they have in turn come on here to "push" the development. It would make sense for an entry level investor to do this....especially if nobody was buying there. I have seen popular investment threads invaded in a similar way with lots of "people" claiming to have made a fortune or about to make a fortune on some shares or investment. Dogbox may just be playing the system to his advantage.

5. As a topic of discussion Saidia is almost constantly bumped to the top of the threads. There hasnt really been a day gone by recently were it hasn't been up there near the top of the new posts list. This topic isnt that popular so why is this? Why have topics on France, Spain, Italy never really been half as popular despite the fact that so many more people move there and have interests in property there?

As I said it may genuinely be a massive coincidence that lots of Saidia investors have come across this website. It may be that somebody has gone on another forum elsewhere that has been set up specifically for Saidia investors and told them to come here. It may be "god forbid" the UK marketing arm of Saidia that have got a few people together to post on here as different people. Whatever it is this "Saidia" development has received a massive amount of free publicity and as this site attracts thousands of viewers that is absolutley priceless.

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1) Let me stress that again. There isn't anything to do there.

2) the water gets very cold and unsuitable for swimming.

3) How can you ramp a place you know nothing about ?

1) It is obvious that there will be a lot to do once built. I remind you I have been to many resorts which just have a beach and thats all I need. The fact this place will have 20 restaurants, 3 golf courses, spa centres etc will be far far more than I need thanks and will certainly appeal to those who like Man made entertainment.

There are many reports of Whales off - shore, boat trips, fishing, desert safaris - perhaps not your taste but right up my street.

I am happy just being with my family and chilling on the beach and round our private pool and BBQing. The enormous array of facilities will be an added bonus and certainly underpin the rentals.

2) The water cant be any colder than Portugals Atlantic coast yet many Portugese golf resorts have a long season. Im confident Saidia's will be even longer. I love cold sea anyway and me and my kids find even the British sea warm enough to splash about in all day (with coffee breaks of course!)

California has cold sea and the water in Florida is pretty chilly. Cape Town is one of the Worlds premier destinations now, yet the water is freezing.

3) It was never my intention to ramp. I merely wanted to share what I beleive to be a great investment afterall this is AN INVESTMENT FORUM.

Biglog, Im amazed you fail to recognise the investment potential.

The combination of plus factors is to be frank overwhelming.

we are also lookin at the golden mile and maybe casablanca..

The Casablanca resort built by LJDF (Catara and Biglog this is the company building my villa) has all but sold out. I had an email today informing me no more reservations were possible.

This Morocco thing is going from strength to strength and soon no bargains will remain B)

5. As a topic of discussion Saidia is almost constantly bumped to the top of the threads. There hasnt really been a day gone by recently were it hasn't been up there near the top of the new posts list. This topic isnt that popular so why is this? Why have topics on France, Spain, Italy never really been half as popular despite the fact that so many more people move there and have interests in property there?

If you go to the LJDF discussion forum I think Im right in saying no one on there has even mentioned HPC. Surely if there was a 'conspiracy' of sorts one would find evidence there?

THE REASON FOR ALL THE ATTENTION IS THAT THIS TRULY IS A UNIQUE AND UNRIVALLED INVESTMENT.

A development of this calabre just doesnt come along at these prices. Ive challenged people to come up with something as good at these prices but as yet the call remains unanswered.

Golf resorts are 10 a penny. Golf resorts with 3 courses, a marina of this scale etc are unheard of.

Edited by dogbox
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California has cold sea and the water in Florida is pretty chilly. Cape Town is one of the Worlds premier destinations now, yet the water is freezing.

The Casablanca resort built by LJDF (Catara and Biglog this is the company building my villa) has all but sold out. I had an email today informing me no more reservations were possible.

Another clear example of your ignorance: Florida has very warm waters, the water temperature is between 22-30 Celsius all year long.

About Casablanca development: Saffron VIllas sent that kind of messages that they cannot take anymore reservations. BUt that is a complete lie, the Palmiers des Casablanca is far from having the building license so it might never be built. So that is another bull*** Dogbox is spreading on the discussion.

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I would venture to suggest that anyone investing at Saidia really ought not be overly concerned with this Saidia "hot" or "cold" debate.This is a relative concept.I spend a great deal of time in the South of Spain(Almeria/Murcia-directly opposite Saidia) outside the peak periods and it remains a source of amusement to me that when i am wearing just a pair of shorts and sandals,the Spanish are clad in wooly jumpers and the Moroccans in overcoats!

Kms

Please pm me.I have reserved an end Penthouse on The Greens,and have many views on its merits relative to Oasis and LJDF.

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adibrown - It's crazy to talk of conspiracy theories. Those of us who have been to Saidia or who have bought there are naturally interested in discussion about the place. We have no need to ramp. The site on which the villas that dogbox talks about are to be built is not due to start until November, yet all bar about 10 out of the 126 villas are already sold. Anybody putting Saidia into a search engine comes up with this site - hence the number of new posters.

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Another clear example of your ignorance: Florida has very warm waters, the water temperature is between 22-30 Celsius all year long.

About Casablanca development: Saffron VIllas sent that kind of messages that they cannot take anymore reservations. BUt that is a complete lie, the Palmiers des Casablanca is far from having the building license so it might never be built. So that is another bull*** Dogbox is spreading on the discussion.

I didnt find the Florida Atlantic at all warm, certainly cooler than the Med sea I have 'swum' in. I notice you didnt comment on California or Cape Towns chilly sea that I drew into the tourism comparisson debate.

Palmiers is sold out. Whether or not it gets planning it is still a demonstration of the robust market for Morocco.

You didnt comment on my detailed comparison of the Portugese villa I posted which was 4.17 x more expensive than my Saidia villa despite it having no where near the facilities, golf courses, marina, beach and ONLY BEING TERRACED.

You tell me Saidia is overpriced, but you dont give a DIRECT comparison to back - up your claim. (Please dont give chavvy 'full English breakfast' type comparisons)

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I didnt find the Florida Atlantic at all warm, certainly cooler than the Med sea I have 'swum' in. I notice you didnt comment on California or Cape Towns chilly sea that I drew into the tourism comparisson debate.

Palmiers is sold out. Whether or not it gets planning it is still a demonstration of the robust market for Morocco.

You didnt comment on my detailed comparison of the Portugese villa I posted which was 4.17 x more expensive than my Saidia villa despite it having no where near the facilities, golf courses, marina, beach and ONLY BEING TERRACED.

You tell me Saidia is overpriced, but you dont give a DIRECT comparison to back - up your claim. (Please dont give chavvy 'full English breakfast' type comparisons)

I lived 4 years in MIami and I celebrated twice the New Years Eve in the water, the minimum was 23 Celsius on January 1-st. I guess at Saidia on the same day the water was about 8 Celsius.

Of course California is not famous for its warm waters... Eventhough one can still swim around San Diego. But California has excellent weather , mountains (skiing 1 hour from Los Angeles),etc.

I have not been to Cape Town so I cannot comment.

Palmiers is not sold out. Again I made the mistake to ask in some details some months ago and the agents are still bombarding me with messages. The situation there is quite tricky and might take years to be solved...

Edited by catara
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adibrown - It's crazy to talk of conspiracy theories. Those of us who have been to Saidia or who have bought there are naturally interested in discussion about the place. We have no need to ramp. The site on which the villas that dogbox talks about are to be built is not due to start until November, yet all bar about 10 out of the 126 villas are already sold. Anybody putting Saidia into a search engine comes up with this site - hence the number of new posters.

Interestingly I notice a raft of similar debates on the Channel 4 forum with the same characters popping up now and again with different names etc. It has dominated there property abroad section as well.

My suspicions are enforced by the fact that lots of other people are buying in lots of other developments around the globe as well but not one of them appears even 50% as often as Saidia does on this forum or the Channel 4 forum.

I am starting to think that Saidia is a pure speculation development and as such people are looking at it in terms of investment rather than a "home abroad". Because of this you have a high percentage of "rampers" and paranoid individuals who have bought into it. The "rampers" constantly go on about how much they will make and how amazing the development will be and the paranoid buyers come on to forums for reassurance from the "rampers" that they have made the right decision and will in fact collect money on their investment.

Countries such as France, Spain and Italy do have their fair share of these developments but people are mainly looking at them as long term holiday homes or retirement homes and as such dont need to "ramp" or receive reassurance about their "investment".

Personally I think you may possibly make money because there are a lot of people spending a lot of time and effort marketing it. The more people hear good or bad things about it the more people visit the websites/read the brochures and believe the hype.

Personally I wouldnt buy anywhere I wasn't willing to live in and after spending some time in Morocco I certainly wouldnt like to think I was investing any reasonable sum of money in the place.

I dont understand your argument Dogbox about the Saidia development compared to the Portuguese Villa. One is in Europe the other is in Africa. It really is as simple as that. For instance you can get this in a prime part of Kenya within walking distance of the beach, marina and golf course. Kenya has been established as a holiday resort for much longer than Morocco. http://www.homesonsale.co.uk/index.php?page=out&id=38397 or perhaps Egypt. This villa is in the diving resort of Dahab. http://www.homesonsale.co.uk/index.php?page=out&id=28929 . Ok so it is a bit pricey at £29,500 but I havent really looked and just grabbed properties from off of the web.

Comparing Moroccon property to Portuguese or Spanish property is like comparing California to Mexico or Japan to China.

Morocco is in Africa you should be comapring it to other African tourist areas such as Kenya, Gambia, Egypt etc

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Adi, it all comes down to utility value and accesibility as well as class - profile (sorry to mention this one).

Where else can you take a 3 hour flight and rent a property right on the golf (this is an important point, many resorts you have to drive to the golf) and at the same time your kids are right on the beach for this kind of money?

If this resort just had a couple of restaurants, a gym and a couple of pools then yes I would look to pay a lot less.

Saidia will be a world class resort. The 7km beach / golf / extensive marina / facilities combo will ensure this.

Think about it:

Imagine you are a golf widow. You want a beach for the kids whilst hubby gets the pick of 3 18 hole courses. If you found this rare combo in Spain you would pay a huge premium.

In the evening YOU DONT WANT THE USUAL 2 OR 3 RESTARUANTS so typical of golf resorts, you want a big choice and high quality.

Everything about this place reeks quality and up - market.

In fact if you speak to agents they will tell you something quite profound;

'Middle class' is the DOMINANT client profile buying in Morocco. They tell me this is something unique and totaly different from the typical Bulgaria / Turkey / Spain investor.

Im not sure why this is, but it adds up to something substantial of that Im sure.

So do I get the same by paying £1m in Portugal (note my previous example was £710 k but was terraced and chintzy and no marina or beach etc etc) or do I take a view that £170 in Saidia makes a lot more investment sense?

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I would venture to suggest that anyone investing at Saidia really ought not be overly concerned with this Saidia "hot" or "cold" debate.This is a relative concept.I spend a great deal of time in the South of Spain(Almeria/Murcia-directly opposite Saidia) outside the peak periods and it remains a source of amusement to me that when i am wearing just a pair of shorts and sandals,the Spanish are clad in wooly jumpers and the Moroccans in overcoats!

Kms

Please pm me.I have reserved an end Penthouse on The Greens,and have many views on its merits relative to Oasis and LJDF.

Hi Magnate, would be interested in hearing your views - tried to PM but not working

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NEWS

Ive just heard that a 24 hour shuttle service will be put in place to cover the entire development with regular shuttles from dwelling to beach to marina etc.

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Adi, it all comes down to utility value and accesibility as well as class - profile (sorry to mention this one).

Where else can you take a 3 hour flight and rent a property right on the golf (this is an important point, many resorts you have to drive to the golf) and at the same time your kids are right on the beach for this kind of money?

If this resort just had a couple of restaurants, a gym and a couple of pools then yes I would look to pay a lot less.

Saidia will be a world class resort. The 7km beach / golf / extensive marina / facilities combo will ensure this.

Think about it:

Imagine you are a golf widow. You want a beach for the kids whilst hubby gets the pick of 3 18 hole courses. If you found this rare combo in Spain you would pay a huge premium.

In the evening YOU DONT WANT THE USUAL 2 OR 3 RESTARUANTS so typical of golf resorts, you want a big choice and high quality.

Everything about this place reeks quality and up - market.

In fact if you speak to agents they will tell you something quite profound;

'Middle class' is the DOMINANT client profile buying in Morocco. They tell me this is something unique and totaly different from the typical Bulgaria / Turkey / Spain investor.

Im not sure why this is, but it adds up to something substantial of that Im sure.

So do I get the same by paying £1m in Portugal (note my previous example was £710 k but was terraced and chintzy and no marina or beach etc etc) or do I take a view that £170 in Saidia makes a lot more investment sense?

Try looking at Desert Springs on the Costa Almeria. It offers a golf course by the beach with hotels, restaurants and bars. Property starts from around £140k with 3 bed beachfront townhouses around £180k with pool. It comes with 2 marinas and over 10km of white sand beach. It is just under an hour away from Murcia and Almeria airports and 2 hours from Alicante Airport. Just over an hour and half away lies the Ski resort of Sierra Nevada and the city of Granada. More importantly 10 mins down the road are the great resorts of Mojacar and Garrucha (Typical Spanish resorts - Nothing over 3 storeys by law in the whole area!!!).

I have to say I have visited this place on many occasions and it is quite breathtaking. My G/F used to work at the bar/restaurant and even though they dont make it public Ian Botham, Ian Woosnam, Zinedene Zidane and Steve Redgrave all have houses there. In fact Ian Botham and Woosnam are rarely away from there.

Now I never like to talk about this complex because I like to think it will remain exclusive. You are right in assuming that there are areas of Spain that are working class (Benidorm, Torremelinos, Torrevieja) but there are also areas that are completely exclusive and you wont really know about these because they arent your Polaris World crowd and don't churn out cheap marketing etc.

For me If I had £200k to spare my money would go here. It is still very much in its infancy and likely to attract a lot of interest in the future.

Oh I forgot to add that Daley Thompson lives there as well. He has just opened up a gym on site. Now hows about that for a feature, having DT as your personal trainer whilst playing golf alongside Ian Woosnam.

Also Shuttle Bus runs from airport to resort 24 hours so you can just relax and enjoy.

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Try looking at Desert Springs on the Costa Almeria. It offers a golf course by the beach with hotels, restaurants and bars. Property starts from around £140k with 3 bed beachfront townhouses around £180k with pool.

I looked at Desert Springs. The price is £385000 for a detached villa with own pool.

Again no comparison to Saidia, it just is'nt in the same league.

Here's why:

Its a 7 minute drive to the nearest beach. This is such an important point - Saidia is on its own 7km beach which is a killer factor.

Marina - there is none at Desert Springs, again you have to drive. Saidia owners have thier own vast modern marina which can take the biggest yatchs and has 840 berths. Surrounding this marina will be up - market trendy renowned restraunts. Its hard for me to get across the importance of this feature.

D Springs has 1 golf course, Saidia will have 3 18 holers. This gives the user choice.

Some of the names comming to Saidia - Budha Bars, Channel, Armani, Gucci, Boss. Now I know I get ribbed for pointing this out, but fikkle materialistic types will be influenced by this whether we like it or not.

Desert Springs has 3 restaurants. Saidia will have at least 20 plus lots of bars and market sizzlers.

Remember this forum is about investment. Although I like out of the way small resorts I can see the potential this resort has in terms of its mass appeal, albiet one which is squarely aimed at the better end of the market.

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