Morocco - My Next Target

[zilly]

I have not had the time or inclination to post on here before, but I have finished work early and Mrs Danny and little ones have gone camping for a few days so a little time to kill.

Some muppets on here continually take the pi** out of dogbox whose biggest crime as far as I can see is being too enthusiastic and having far too much time on his hands. As I understand he has bought one Hibiscus Villa on VVT8. As from two weeks ago there were a handful left ranging in price from £243,000 to £330,000 inclusive of VAT. Regarding ' keeping their value' as the resort starts to take shape as it is now, these prices will only go up. Dogbox has probably made a nice little profit already.

I'm not doing the whole pitch but, direct flights - next year, hotels complete - next year, restaurants, shops etc, the whole Moroccan experience, this resort much to some posters dismay will, in time, be a hugh success.

Many, like me took a calculated punt in investing in Sadia. I visited 18 mths ago and became convinced that this is a 7- 10 year investment. There have been delays, as in any project like this - but the build now is cracking on.

I am sure that the Fadesa problem will be sorted. The resort will probably be finished nearer 2011/12 not 2010.

Someone asked about investing in a Villa in Saidia. I am absolutly no expert but if you are serious you should definitely visit the site and get a feel for it.

Finally to you doom-mongers, of course people can post personal views and all that, but make sure you come back when Sadia is alive and kicking and slag it off then. In the meantime in your sad little worlds you can only hope and pray that it is not successful because you have not had the foresight or ba**s to go for it yourselves.

Yes the mindset that valued a villa in a place like Morocco at a third of a million pounds and truly believed the value would only go up is difficult to understand.

Wonder if he got confused between 'Morocco' and 'Monaco' and bought blind?

[Loggy]

I do hope this was sarcasm

I think price in, almost anything, in Morocco will go higher and higher, the 'milky way' is the limit. If you don't buy now you will be priced out, and if you are priced out you will be comdemned to live near you relative, friends and have a normal life: a well paid job and a secure home sweet home...that will be a knightmare.

In the UK, everything is ok, there is no recession and a cheap pound will make export soar and people will feel wealthy again and go on on buying properties abroad.

And I think as well that most of English retiree have the hidden dream to retire in Morocco because the culture and way of living is so near to their own tradition, or own vision...Then they want to escape the burden of taking care of their little children...how best to escape then going to another continent.

While there, a falling pound will make them wealthier ...not materialistically but spiritually since they will learn that instead of going to restaurant they will have to learn to cook, they will not drink wine but instead tea that will make them healthier...so it's win-win situation for the retiree.

For the younger couple, it is great as well they will be there renovating a home with the hope to become a hotel manager, after all what kind of other work they will do. after working a decade or two ( let's call that the Win-Decade), they will retire...and hopefully they have saved enough money since no government will give pennie for their retirement but it's not a problem because this young couple is willing to work until the old age..let's call that the old young couple model.

Ryan air and others are striving, high oil price and booming economy has contributed to a dramatic increase in the number of customers, they keep on opening new routes, their share price in the stock market is rising and rising, the limit is the milky way.Buy it now otherwise it will be too late...

Lol how things changed in a few months ...

[BigLog]

Hmm........almost 3 years of posts ...and its back to the beginning

interesting read

Glad to see that EuroScooby is still plugging away where Dogbox left off............

Euro, look mate, even Dogbox has done a runner, doesn't that tell you something ?? Hasn't the penny dropped yet ??

Let me help you take off those Rosy Spectacles, look up on YouTube;

"Who is terrorizing my country ?!! Morocco corruption"

and

"TRUE STORY/Corruption/Morocco/DemolitionHouseHoliday (English Version)"

to see what you're letting yourself into.......

Edited January 11, 2009 by BigLog

[Macluis]

I do hope this was sarcasm

Lol how things changed in a few months ...

It was... just take all the arguments and take the opposite view...as i was a bit fed up by the naive view that housing price were only heading one direction which was up...

I think the English expat was one argument used by local sellers to push price higher...today the myth has vanished and with it the global housing boom.

One last remark:

if there is two place to invest is definitely is the UK and US from a eurpean point of view as you will have to taken into account falling price (20%?) plus currency devaluation (30%?), I think those market have never been so cheap. The point i'm making is that, i do not see why people would invest, for property related investment, anywhere than those country.

If i'm right you are going to see a flood of expat returning to the UK this year and next, pushing, to some extent, european price lower like in Spain, Morocco and France etc...

[West Hampstead]

Good luck mate.

I had the misfortune to visit Morocco in 1983.It was the worst place I have ever visited in my life.Tangiers is like some biblical hellhole.

Property may be cheap,but with good reason.The only person you will be selling to is someone more stupid than yourself.

Stick with Berlin.I can't believe you've bought everything there yet.

Morrocco is the next property investment destination for the premier league, now that they have bought up the high end golf resorts of Dubai, and all the gold and duty free. It is the shorter flight, no jet lag with the same desert heat, plus Morrocco has history and culture to recomend it.

[forestfire]

Morrocco is the next property investment destination for the premier league, now that they have bought up the high end golf resorts of Dubai, and all the gold and duty free. It is the shorter flight, no jet lag with the same desert heat, plus Morrocco has history and culture to recomend it.

You're having a laugh!!!

The "premier league" is too busy licking it's wounds to worry about pi55ing away even more money on so called property "investments". Do you seriously think they will dive straight back into a market that has severely eroded their net worths? Not a chance.

[euroscooby]

Glad to see that EuroScooby is still plugging away where Dogbox left off............

Euro, look mate, even Dogbox has done a runner, doesn't that tell you something ?? Hasn't the penny dropped yet ??

Let me help you take off those Rosy Spectacles, look up on YouTube;

"Who is terrorizing my country ?!! Morocco corruption"

and

"TRUE STORY/Corruption/Morocco/DemolitionHouseHoliday (English Version)"

to see what you're letting yourself into.......

Here we go again. What penny?

As part of my investment portfolio I hold overseas property. It will/has gone down. Wow. So has my equity portfolio. The reasons I chose Morocco remain, however a global property crash will ensure I will not be making money in the near time. So what? I am not a flipper and I believe that this resort will be a success IN THE MEDIUM TERM.

I am not here to ramp, just try and give another side to the gloaters agenda.

[mpprh]

Seems the political system is moving towards the predicted fundamentalism : abcnews.go.com

Peter

[redwine]

http://lci.tf1.fr/filnews/france/fausse-alerte-a-la-bombe-au-salon-immobilier-marocain-a-paris-5860412.html

There was a "bomb alert" last saturday at the Paris "Morrocan Property" exhibition 4000 visitors were evacuated it turned out to be a hoax there are 1.2 million Morrocans who live in France

[righttoleech]

I miss all those wampers. Where have they all gone? Members of this forum are surely the best target audience to be drawn in to the latest ponzi scams?

The only thing I like more is an unsolicited telephone call from India asking me personal questions about credit card debts and mortgages.

[Fromage Frais]

North african property is the biggest ponzi of the lot.

When the developer owns the agent, bank and property its takes longer but falls harder.

If you go to the morocco expat forums they say its all down 30% plus

It was easy just build something for less than europe like people do in North Africa when they build a factory.......but no straight to 200,000 euros+

One day the penny will drop but it will be inflation rather than the elite taking the hit.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Fromage Frais

[soldintime]

North african property is the biggest ponzi of the lot.

When the developer owns the agent, bank and property its takes longer but falls harder.

If you go to the morocco expat forums they say its all down 30% plus

It was easy just build something for less than europe like people do in North Africa when they build a factory.......but no straight to 200,000 euros+

One day the penny will drop but it will be inflation rather than the elite taking the hit.

I went to look at some of the forums and I found this comment on Les Jardins de Fleur where our favourite Dogbox starter of this thread invested his money.

Good luck to you mate - and all those who bought through Property Logic.

They have not done a stitich of work on the resort since December 08.

Yet they are still taking deposits off gullible, naive people.

It shouldn't be allowed.

[Fromage Frais]

Thats the idea though your supposed to come with your deposit and then pay for the other work to be done.

This is normal practice in North Africa you rent out the shop and promise to paint it when the rent starts to be paid.........which is when you can be bothered.

When you go from land that is free/peanuts to hundreds of pounds a m2 your going to get these guys starting projects where they have 100,000 euros and want to build 300 apartments.

No deposits = No progress

So in essence they are not going to go bankrupt and they are not going to finish the projects just limbo for years.

It was always going to happen when wages are 1 sixth houses should be thus.

[geoffk]

how ******ing predictable........property fools....Will you people ever ever learn?

NO..What makes you all so stupid when it comes to property.......GREED......

[mpprh]

doesn't help.

Peter

[Tankus]

Next ..planet Dubai .

..targets are so easy to spot because they go pink in the sun

[Fromage Frais]

I think there is a much larger question than..Is Morocco/North Africa a good investment?

The Question is do the actual people of North Africa want Tourists investors at all?

The newly enfranchised (for the time being ) poor, see tourism as something that only benefits the rich and ergo by extension your not a canny investor...your Kafir who is re-colonising.

Yes 99+% percent of the people are lovely and they are really really welcoming etc but that leaves a good number of people who look at you with contempt and possibly want to kill you/rob you.

This needs to change before people can buy en masse, if it does not then peoples current investment may become worthless.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Fromage Frais

[Tankus]

I think there is a much larger question than..Is Morocco/North Africa a good investment?

The Question is do the actual people of North Africa want Tourists investors at all?

The newly enfranchised (for the time being ) poor, see tourism as something that only benefits the rich and ergo by extension your not a canny investor...your Kafir who is re-colonising.

Yes 99+% percent of the people are lovely and they are really really welcoming etc but that leaves a good number of people who look at you with contempt and possibly want to kill you/rob you.

This needs to change before people can buy en masse, if it does not then peoples current investment may become worthless.

Any Muslim country (inc turkey) ?

[Fromage Frais]

Any Muslim country (inc turkey) ?

Cannot speak about Turkey as it is a bit different and supposedly it has been a democracy for longer.

But in the middle east and North africa the rich poor divide leaves so many questions.

You may not have Christians and Muslims etc but you do have Rich and Poor, Secular and Islamist etc.

Everything is up in the air and its important that the EU does not sit back and assume everything is going to go wonderfully.

[Agentimmo]

And all the good builders are no longer in Nth Africa but in Europe. Plenty of paper/decorators/painters/masons/plasterers/plumbers/brickies etc in France/Spain/Germany and the like. All doing well. What's left in Nth Africa.......

[Mark Uttley]

In 2005 we paid a deposit on an apartment with what was then Fadesa MartinSa who were the main developer for the flag ship resort Mediterrania Saidia in the Plan d'Azur, a scheme supported by King Mohammed IV to attract 10 million tourists to Morocco by 2010. We signed a contract with Fadesa confident that we were dealing with one of the largest developers in Europe. However, the Moroccan arm of Fadesa got into financial dificulties and were then taken over by Addoha and rebranded Group Fadesa Maroc.

Since paying a 40% deposit for the apartment in 2006, Addoha/GFM/Excelia have not delivered the apartment, they have never communicated with us to explain why the apartment was delayed and breached the terms of the contract. We therefore exercised our right to have our deposit returned. This is where the real problems started. Addoha/GFM/Excelia decided to again breach the terms of the contract and decided to withold the deposit.

The blog page is a log of our communications with Addoha/GFM/Excelia. It shows just how for removed Anas Sefrioui's promises in his letters are from the reality of trying to do business with his company. The links page shows that we are not alone....

http://mediterraniasaidia.co.uk/

[mpprh]

http://mediterraniasaidia.co.uk/

The website above has vanished.

The arab spring, anti royalist demonstrations and political unrest has severely reduced the always volatile Moroccan tourist industry. Easyjet 2012 weekly departures to Morocco are down 38 per week.

Even Easyjet can't get passengers to go to Morocco :

And the Tangiers - Sete ferries have been seized by bailiffs for non payment of fuel :

Anyone still believe in it ?

[okaycuckoo]

Oh dear.

Hadn't come across this thread before so it clicked to the first page - Wot! Then I realised the date of the original post.

Maybe they should consider the Canaries. Property fairly cheap. Alot of Norwegians have been diverted there from the middle east and Africa, and they're spending their oil money.

Spoke to someone today who's thinking of buying an orange grove there and retiring. Irrigation is a problem.

[swissy_fit]

Maybe they should consider the Canaries.

Spoke to someone today who's thinking of buying an orange grove there and retiring. Irrigation is a problem.

And volcanoes.

Chances are you'll be alright but they're far from extinct.

[mpprh]

Just getting worse and worse ?

Ryanair today (28 June) announced the cancellation of 34 weekly flights (250,000 annual passengers) to/from Morocco because ONDA, the Moroccan Govt’s airports authority, has reneged on its agreement with the airline by imposing a new monopoly handling company on Ryanair which would have resulted in a massive increase in charges for the airline. ONDA has refused to guarantee Ryanair the continuation of the cost levels of its original agreement. Consequently, Ryanair has no alternative but to announce substantial reductions to its flight programme to Moroccan airports which will include reductions of 8 weekly frequencies at Nador, 6 at Fez, 8 at Marrakesh, 4 at Tangier and the complete closure of its operation at Oujda Airport (8 weekly frequencies).

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-reductions-in-services-to-morocco-as-onda-breaks-agreement-on-costs