How To Emigrate?

[ca-uk]

A common theme on these forums amongst disgruntled folk is that this country has gone down the pan, and that we should emigrate.

What are the good places to live? What is the process? Which countries are easy or difficult to emigrate to?

It would be good to get the info together so we can see whether it is really an option..

[brainclamp]

You have to be wary about emigrating into a trap. Canada for example feeds off its immigrants as they have a large, highly paid public sector, with many people providing the rest of the economy with goods and services for them and paying taxes for little back in return. Wages for the hard workers are thus very low in relation to the cushy jobs. Like the UK.

I would think the EU would be the easiest place other than the language barrier, which can work in your favour. I have met people who have a good standard of living in Europe just teaching english. Thank god for the empire...

[Bingley Bloke]

I've thought about emmigration and wondered if there are any web sites dealing with the particulars about emmigrating to specific places. Ideally I'd like somewhere warm and laid-back where everyone gets on with each other and there's a total absence of nanny-state politics and regulation. You've all seen the Malibu advert – That's what I'm fancying!!

Edited April 1, 2006 by Bingley Bloke

[Nick T]

A common theme on these forums amongst disgruntled folk is that this country has gone down the pan, and that we should emigrate.

What are the good places to live? What is the process? Which countries are easy or difficult to emigrate to?

It would be good to get the info together so we can see whether it is really an option..

What job do you do for a living. For me i am in IT, so look at US, Aussie, etc etc

[Shamus]

Places like Canada, Australia and NZ (based on a points system) are quite easy to get into as long as you have a trade or degree. Experience counts too plus if you have family in the country of choice you get extra points. I understand that the wait to get approved is fairly long especially for Canada. You also have to be fit and satisfy a medical which also includes x-rays.

My advice if you are under 35 for Canada or under 30 for the other countries is to get a working holiday visa. That way you can try before you buy as costs are a couple thousand or so per person.

Me and my wife spent 7.5 months in Vancouver, Canada through the Bunac scheme as non students before travelling around the States and Northern Canada and Alaska for 2.5 months. It was great fun but as with going anywhere new you do tend to miss friends and family while away.

While in Vancouver we lived in a high rise block with fantastic views over the ocean and mountains. Rent was £400 a month for our small studio. No council tax and electric bill of £7 per month. Phone and internet extra at no more than £20 per month. Don't think about buying there it is very expensive and the only place in Canada suffering from a huge property boom!!

The scheme was easy to apply for and it had an easier application form than for many jobs at home. Looks like the non-student Work Canada is very popular and is full for this year.

Can't blame people for giving it a go

Edited April 1, 2006 by Shamus

[MarkG]

I understand that the wait to get approved is fairly long especially for Canada.

At least four years now, and probably longer. In fact I expect they'll trash the entire immigration scheme in the next two or three years and make everyone in the queue reapply under a new scheme: it's totally out of control and has no bearing on the actual needs of the Canadian economy.

In particular it's biased towards married French people, which makes no sense to me: and one result is that a sizable fraction of the 'skilled worker' visas they give out go to kids who won't be working for years, or spouses with no skills. Another is that a large number of foreign doctors and engineers who move to Canada end up delivering pizza or driving taxis because -- tada -- the national government bring them into the country but the provincial governments won't recognise their qualifications in Canada.

If you meet the points score, then Australia and New Zealand process applications much faster: and their application requirements make a lot more sense, giving more points to skills that are actually in demand. Personally there's no way I'd apply to emigrate to Canada today, the wait isn't worth the hassle and the jobs market is difficult to break into without contacts.

Don't think about buying there it is very expensive and the only place in Canada suffering from a huge property boom!!

Alberta, and Calgary in particular, is also in the middle of a house price boom thanks to all the oil and gas money. However, Canada has so much land that you can almost always buy a few acres of land a few miles from town and build a house on it for far less than buying an 'executive apartment' in most of Britain.

But yeah, I originally planned to move to Vancouver and gave up on the idea thanks to their crazy housing boom. I'm guessing a lot is down to the immigrants from Hong Kong bringing tons of money with them.

Also Canadian interest rates have been going up, though they're stuck between raising them to cool down the oil money boom, and cutting or holding them because the manufacturers in the East can't compete due to the high value of the Canadian dollar vs the US dollar.

[CrashBear]

I'm thinking of spain when I come back from travelling, because I'll be able to speak the language and also its in the EU so it makes things easier.

I saw the perfect job in barcelona the other day, shame that I've booked a flight elsewhere already.

[Shamus]

I agree with the points you made MarkG. We met quite a few brits over there and the ones that have got on better without struggling are those who transferred within their company. The job market is tough and preference seems to go to Canadians. We were contemplating about emigrating but are put off by the amount of time it would take to get our qualifications recognised once there and time it would take to start earning good money again.

<Also Canadian interest rates have been going up, though they're stuck between raising them to cool down the oil money boom, and cutting or holding them because the manufacturers in the East can't compete due to the high value of the Canadian dollar vs the US dollar.>

Also like you mention the exchange rate is now a big factor for anyone thinking of going and setting up home with savings from here.

Our time there was worthwhile for us as it helped to put things into perspective and makes you appreciate other aspects of life more, away from the familarity of our own country and the daily 9-5 grind here.

[padders]

www.britishexpats.com is a useful wesite for this sort of thing

[MarkG]

Yeah, that's the other thing: a lot of people wait years for visas, spend a year or so in Canada only to find they can't get a job, and come back... making the whole thing a total waste of time. I wouldn't have applied there in the first place if I didn't know people in the country, and my girlfriend wasn't willing to keep me as a 'house husband' if need be (though I have to buy the house ).

Personally I'm expecting to end up working over the Internet rather than for a company where I'd be living in Canada.

[Warwickshire Lad]

Emigration is a nice idea, but anywhere that might be desirable for me (e.g. New Zealand) is also in the death-grip of this insane bubble.

All things considered I'm staying here for now, but in 2-3 years time I feel there will come a cross-roads in which I spend the rest of my life here in the UK or spend it somewhere else.

Britain does have plenty of good culture, and in recent years more foreign culture introduced by ethnic minorities.

It's the chavs, the benefit cheats and tax abusers I can't stand. Oh yes and the Government is rubbish because it hasn't got a clue about how to solve the pensions crisis, and the Chancellor of the day isn't lifting a finger to even try.

Does any other country have it's pensions sorted ?

[okonu]

Don't forget about Singapore or Hong Kong (as places to emigrate to) rather than the default Oz/NZ/Canada (which I see more as retirement places, not so good for work)

Both have got pensions sorted (HK by not really having any, but having no taxes on dividends/interest/capital gains, so save your own money. Singapore has the CPF)

Edited April 1, 2006 by okonu

[MarkG]

Does any other country have it's pensions sorted?

Doubt it, because the whole idea that a large fraction of the population of a country can have a good living without working is simply broken. The only way it can work that I can see is if you can persuade foreigners to pay you to lounge around all day.

Don't forget about Singapore or Hong Kong (as places to emigrate to) rather than the default Oz/NZ/Canada

Yeah, but Singapore is probably the most boring country on the planet. Even the Singaporeans seem to run off to Indonesia and Malaysia for entertainment.

Nice girls though.

However, if I was 21 again today I would certainly be looking at moving to Asia rather than another Western country with big demographic problems of its own. Heck, if I end up not going to Canada for some reason I'd probably still do it now.

Edited April 1, 2006 by MarkG

[Elizabeth]

Emigration is a nice idea, but anywhere that might be desirable for me (e.g. New Zealand) is also in the death-grip of this insane bubble.

All things considered I'm staying here for now, but in 2-3 years time I feel there will come a cross-roads in which I spend the rest of my life here in the UK or spend it somewhere else.

Britain does have plenty of good culture, and in recent years more foreign culture introduced by ethnic minorities.

It's the chavs, the benefit cheats and tax abusers I can't stand. Oh yes and the Government is rubbish because it hasn't got a clue about how to solve the pensions crisis, and the Chancellor of the day isn't lifting a finger to even try.

Does any other country have it's pensions sorted ?

Australia mate if thats what your after. Best superannunation in the world. Richest pensioners in the world. Employers and Employees both have to contribute 10% of wages. Every employee. Every employer. No choice. No payment holidays. It has been going on since the mind 80s. Ring fenced and totally separate management. There is so much money in superannuation funds now that they don't know what to do with it. The internal stock market is saturated. And when they release it at 65 or 60 or whatever it is, its yours. You don't have to buy a pension. There are no regulations. You do what you want with it.

[MarkG]

There is so much money in superannuation funds now that they don't know what to do with it. The internal stock market is saturated. And when they release it at 65 or 60 or whatever it is, its yours.

And, uh, what do you think will happen to the stock market when all the boomers want to sell within a few years of each other?

[aussieboy]

Australia mate if thats what your after. Best superannunation in the world. Richest pensioners in the world. Employers and Employees both have to contribute 10% of wages. Every employee. Every employer. No choice. No payment holidays. It has been going on since the mind 80s. Ring fenced and totally separate management. There is so much money in superannuation funds now that they don't know what to do with it. The internal stock market is saturated. And when they release it at 65 or 60 or whatever it is, its yours. You don't have to buy a pension. There are no regulations. You do what you want with it.

And the Telstra sale money (should it get away) is going to fill the super gap. Much as I do not like a lot of what the Howard govt stands for, that sounds like a damn good idea.

BTW to the previous posters on chavs and benefit cheats: don't let the press here ruin it for you. We have too many papers, too much saturated news coverage with reporters looking to make stories to fill the gaping media channels. The Daily Mail has talked the country down for the last 9 years (funny that) and will make a terrible story out of anything, be it the one in a million surgical operation that goes wrong, the one person in Cardiff who complains that their council house is not big enough or the "death cloud" from a refinary fire. It's all ignorant, mis-represented rubbish that is warping our view of the country and distorting reality when the reality is that we have an excellent health system, that most single mothers are the only people having the children required to prop up our tax base for the future (unless we let in <ugh> immigrants), and that the death cloud story was based on hot air (as it were).

[BuyingBear]

It's just like going on holiday but never coming back

If you're heading to Europe just pack your bags and get a one way ticket, inform the UK authorities you're a non-domicled individual when it comes to tax.

[Battenberg]

You've all seen the Malibu advert – That's what I'm fancying!!

Yeah but you can't even get a regular melon!

[Golden Shower]

And the Telstra sale money (should it get away) is going to fill the super gap. Much as I do not like a lot of what the Howard govt stands for, that sounds like a damn good idea.

BTW to the previous posters on chavs and benefit cheats: don't let the press here ruin it for you. We have too many papers, too much saturated news coverage with reporters looking to make stories to fill the gaping media channels. The Daily Mail has talked the country down for the last 9 years (funny that) and will make a terrible story out of anything, be it the one in a million surgical operation that goes wrong, the one person in Cardiff who complains that their council house is not big enough or the "death cloud" from a refinary fire. It's all ignorant, mis-represented rubbish that is warping our view of the country and distorting reality when the reality is that we have an excellent health system, that most single mothers are the only people having the children required to prop up our tax base for the future (unless we let in <ugh> immigrants), and that the death cloud story was based on hot air (as it were).

Good points, the UK has its problems but is still one of the best places to live. If you're into financial markets, the UK is possibly the best place to be in the world, you get the European and US markets open when you are awake.

To anyone thinking about taking the plunge, have a good think about your motives very closely. If you're trying to escape HPI, forget it, it's global!

[sign_of_the_times]

Good points, the UK has its problems but is still one of the best places to live. If you're into financial markets, the UK is possibly the best place to be in the world, you get the European and US markets open when you are awake.

To anyone thinking about taking the plunge, have a good think about your motives very closely. If you're trying to escape HPI, forget it, it's global!

maybe, but have you seen what 200k will buy you in Canada ?

[CrashIsUnderWay]

just thought I'd mention that its 23 degrees in the Umbrian hills today, and we have come inside to cool off. And grab another couple of bottles of £2.50 prosecco that is of a similar quality to £18 champers in blighty.

[Guest Winners and Losers]

maybe, but have you seen what 200k will buy you in Canada ?

Or Australia?

Does that mean global crash then? Someone tell TTRTR, he thinks the UK is 'an island' - no man is an island TTRTR.

Australia mate if thats what your after. Best superannunation in the world. Richest pensioners in the world. Employers and Employees both have to contribute 10% of wages. Every employee. Every employer. No choice. No payment holidays. It has been going on since the mind 80s. Ring fenced and totally separate management. There is so much money in superannuation funds now that they don't know what to do with it. The internal stock market is saturated. And when they release it at 65 or 60 or whatever it is, its yours. You don't have to buy a pension. There are no regulations. You do what you want with it.

Huh???

I worked for 3 years and already have 15k in Super!! I can't believe it myself.

[MarkG]

maybe, but have you seen what 200k will buy you in Canada ?

Why go that high when you can get a four-bed, 4,500 square foot house with four-car garage and five acres of land for under 160k pounds?

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?PropertyID=4418794

And only five miles from the provincial capital, so you might even be able to find a job to pay the mortgage and heating bills .

But hey, I'm sure you're better off spending the same amount on a one-bed flat in the UK.

Seriously, anyone who doesn't think that British house prices are insane should spend some time on the mls.ca site seeing how the rest of the world lives. Even around Vancouver you can find something pretty nice for 200k pounds.

[messychopper]

the USA isnt easy to move to and at best the visa system is very complicated and they just seem to want to keep you out, if we weren't in florida id want to be in southern france or northern spain.

i found i just need to be in the sun so that rules out all of the uk.

[MarkG]

Hmm, five bedrooms for 8,000 pounds:

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?PropertyID=4277721

Of course there aren't many jobs in Nova Scotia and I'm guessing it needs some work: from what I understand Canadian houses do have fairly high maintenance costs with new furnaces every ten years or so, repainting the wood to keep it solid, etc.

Even so, I doubt you could find a 'fixer-upper' anywhere in the UK for that price, let alone one of a decent size.