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Marina

Time To Move On I Think

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Okay, others have made similar pronoucements before. I don't know why people make annoucements about intending to leave a forum. The only reason I am doing it is I want to leave a parting message.

(My main reason for going is that I spend too much time here - it is addictive and I have a couple of projects on the go that I need to concentrate on.)

I heard about this site on the box one morning - someone from here was interviewed I seem to recall. As a middle-aged person not in tune with any youth culture things - I would not have heard about it on the internet. I had already convinced myself the market had gone too high and (can't remember to be honest) was either about to, or had already, STRed.

There was a flurry of media interest at that time but, since then, this site has failed to live up to its potential.

It should be a place where:

People get together to plan their next action

Co-ordinate activities like mass e-mailing of MPs etc

Organize demonstrations outside any lender offering daft mortgage multiples - letting the media know well in advance etc

Organize demonstrations outside the ODPM office in London - and tell the media

Release regular press releases to all the media refuting (with hard evidence) the claims of the VIs

Organize demonstrations inside council planning meetings - to raise awareness of the lack of affordable property for young people

Organise demonstrations outside the CPRE offices - to start to reduce their credibility

Canvass friends to join the cause

This place should be a place where, by joining, you join an organization with stated aims. These aims might be:

To raise awareness, by all legal means, of the situation of young people priced out of the property market.

To raise awareness of the social consequences of this situation - i.e. low birth rates, high debt rates, lower spending and saving

To canvass for a change in the taxation status of second properties as second property ownership condemns another young person to renting all their lives

You should make property such a political hot potato that people become ashamed to admit they are thinking of becoming a BTL landlord - so at dinner parties instead of being congratulated by their cronies they might actually find someone says 'ah, another person pricing our young people out of property ownership - can't you find a less socially damaging way of making money?'

In short this site should be a place that co-ordinates people to ACT. Throughout history people with a grievance have acted together to try to get their grievances resolved. Have a look at how the suffragettes did it, how the unions formed etc. These people broke the law to get the law changed. You guys don't need to do that. You just need to raise awareness.

For most people property ownership has meant money for nothing. For most people property ownership has created the only little bit of wealth and security they have. You have a FIGHT on your hands. Most people are not going to roll over and see their wealth eroded. And they have the banks and the government on their side.

This sort of thing takes time and money. Maybe the people who started this site don't have the time or inclination. What I do know is that this site is completely ineffective in its present form. It's just a forum for the same disgruntled people to come and go over the same ground over and over again. It needs some fresh life. It needs a plan. It needs to be co-ordinated.

Maybe 100 of you could chip £25 a month into a pot to pay someone to work full time on this. You need an organizer, a press officer, a motivator and a leader.

Other than that, its ta-ta from me. As I said above, I spend far too much time here and need to get on with other things. To you young people I wish you 'good luck'. I think you have a much, much harder time ahead of you than I and my generation had and I really think you should do something to change it.

Unfortunately, most of you seem to be happy to wait for this market cycle to play out. With all the VIs across the globe dedicated to preventing any sort of correction, you might wait a long, long time. Maybe in 5 years times some of you will be angry enough to try to do something.

Maybe you all need to move over to the PricedOut site and start DOING something.

Ok, now I must head off to cookies and delete the one that logs me in here. I will then have no idea how to get back in.

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Marina

Good Luck. There is no need to petition or organise. Market forces will be the determinant. For all Bull arguaments ask a simple question: Could you afford your morgage on a single income and 5% interest rates.

If the majority of people answer NO then the future of HPI is obvious.

The site is too addictive and in the west our patience is limited.

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Guest The_Oldie

This site is a place where like minded people who want to obtain more information on the property market than is readily available it the mainstream press can exchange information and thoughts.

Here we can discuss anecdotal evidence and also highlight and discuss published information that is often buried in a sea of VI spin.

It is a discussion forum, no more no less.

All the best and good luck for the future.

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Don't worry people she will be back, like Whitney Houston looking for her next crack fix. Its true this site is addictive, you can't leave it alone but the reason we keep coming here everyday is because everyday we are cheesed off with the circumstances of the housing market.

Anyway advice to anyone who needs to stop coming here, download IE nanny from here and then you can block housepricecrash should you feel tempted.

http://www.freevbcode.com/ShowCode.asp?ID=2334

Its a little like trainspotting when he boards himself in his room to get himself clean.

Alternatively block it at source on your router or if all else fails throw your computer out the window.

edit typo

Edited by doggadogdog

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In this day & age Marina, people 'ACT' by getting off their butts & out into the world & putting in some hard graft. Not by putting down other more successful people. That doesn't work when seeking to improve your own lot.

Where 'success', by which I assume you mean making money, comes from people who show talent, ambition, dedication, hard work etc., then they are to be congratulated and aspired to. Where 'success' comes from people who buy houses and wait for prices to rise, they deserve all the criticism they get. They are not generating wealth, they are not helping the economy, they are only fulfilling their own greed at the expense of ordinary people who want somewhere to live.

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Shame to see you go, you've made many quality posts IMO. I agree with most of your point re: action.

I posted the other week about the Bank Action Group who campaign against bank /cc charges. They have just widened their mandate to general consumer action & combined / changed names to Consumer Action Group http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

Their forum has been going for less than 3 months, but is divided into sections for particular groups and has a lot of cut & paste templates for folks to send of to banks /vi's. Maybe Hpc should do something more along these lines.

Or how about an anti-bubble or fair play for housing trade/consumer assoc.

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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1. This pyramid will collapse under its own weight causing a recession; or

2. It will linger on but only until the next recession (caused by another factor).

By being a vocal and prominent protester for the inevitable and, for many, the unthinkable - why set yourself up as a future object of hatered? When the bubble does pop, the angry hunt for scape goats will begin in earnest.

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The good thing about this place is you can see when people posted and when they were last active, this was posted at 9:34 and the poster was last active 10:04 seems it laster less than 30 minutes.

Can't see the point of these sort of posts.

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Marina, I've really enjoyed your input, and understand your frustrations, and I admit to winding you up the last couple of days.....but that's just me being me :rolleyes:......No hard feelings mate.

And your right HPC is addictive because there is such a good bunch of posters on here and that includes true bulls as well [bless em for sticking around and taking some right stick] That said, I bet you will be back, because your so passionate about the injustice being metered out to the younger generations, so I'll just say tarrar for now. ;)

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Marina

Sorry to see you go. You have always been a voice of reason, especially when the site was a lot quieter than it is now. Best of luck and I hope you return.

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Where 'success', by which I assume you mean making money, comes from people who show talent, ambition, dedication, hard work etc., then they are to be congratulated and aspired to. Where 'success' comes from people who buy houses and wait for prices to rise, they deserve all the criticism they get. They are not generating wealth, they are not helping the economy, they are only fulfilling their own greed at the expense of ordinary people who want somewhere to live.

That attitude should be extended to include speculation on assets of any type. Why is someone who buys & sells shares any different? Or someone that works very hard at buying & selling trinkets down at Camden market, or someone who buys & sells cars - what did any of these people do to deserve to earn any money? None of them made the products, they speculated that if they bought the product at a certain price, they could sell it for a higher price later on. It's called capitalism, those with the capital can put it at risk, those without can be employed by those with.

What a funny forum this is. Full of strange little people who on one hand say work is good, yet they can't understand that work involves the buying & selling of assets to generate wealth.

What I suspect is going on here in your case, is that your bitterness at not having any assets is spilling over.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
Have a look at how the suffragettes did it, how the unions formed etc.

Off to throw yourself under a horse then? :P

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That attitude should be extended to include speculation on assets of any type. Why is someone who buys & sells shares any different? Or someone that works very hard at buying & selling trinkets down at Camden market, or someone who buys & sells cars - what did any of these people do to deserve to earn any money? None of them made the products, they speculated that if they bought the product at a certain price, they could sell it for a higher price later on. It's called capitalism, those with the capital can put it at risk, those without can be employed by those with.

What a funny forum this is. Full of strange little people who on one hand say work is good, yet they can't understand that work involves the buying & selling of assets to generate wealth.

What I suspect is going on here in your case, is that your bitterness at not having any assets is spilling over.

TTRTR I understand where your coming from, I have not worked for anybody else for the past 29 years, yes I made my living buying and selling goods or services, and now trade the markets. I state the latter, only because you appear to imply anybody commenting on this culture of greed is obviously a failed disgruntled noboby.

I don't think anybody on this forum takes issue with people earning a living in a service sector enviroment. They take issue with the high cost of putting a roof over their families heads, brought about by bankers facilitating a house price bubble because it pads out their bottom lines.

I feel your view of society is one of the majority are there to be exploited for your benefit. If I have read you wrong and that is not the case, why do you insist on putting down people on a collective basis?

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That attitude should be extended to include speculation on assets of any type. Why is someone who buys & sells shares any different? Or someone that works very hard at buying & selling trinkets down at Camden market, or someone who buys & sells cars - what did any of these people do to deserve to earn any money? None of them made the products, they speculated that if they bought the product at a certain price, they could sell it for a higher price later on. It's called capitalism, those with the capital can put it at risk, those without can be employed by those with.

What a funny forum this is. Full of strange little people who on one hand say work is good, yet they can't understand that work involves the buying & selling of assets to generate wealth.

What I suspect is going on here in your case, is that your bitterness at not having any assets is spilling over.

Well said.

Sucess is fairly achieved by those prepared to risk thier capital and also put thier capital beyond other use, such as spending on holls or kids.

The same people on here always make this point that property investing is just luck, well if its so easy why dont they go risk thier money in say Germany or Estonia? Or how about the SM?

Why? Because they lack bottle, end of. Such people always eny those who are prepared to take risk.

Those same people are the Lambs to the slaughter that Banks and Insurance compamies target with pathetic little savings plans. The companies know these people lack bottle and want everything put on a plate so they fill that need and the unsuspecting amateurs get cr@p returns over the longterm.

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I feel your view of society is one of the majority are there to be exploited for your benefit. If I have read you wrong and that is not the case, why do you insist on putting down people on a collective basis?

What erks me is peoples double standards. People involved in companies trading goods deem this to be somehow more ethical than a property investor whom they see as exploitative.

But a balanced analysis of industry would reveal that most new output isnt actually required, but demand is created by the 'me me must have instant gratification' culture. As a result the enviroment is raped for a never ending stream of raw materials (keep in mind we only have the one planet to keep taking from), people get into debt to buy these 'oh so' vital things (that they went without for years, but now suddenly must have) and then they dump them when the adverts tell them the 'thing' they have is now obsolete because an even quicker thing is now needed. The new thing will, wow, wait for this, allow them to get the cricket scores as they happen, because the user would surely die if they didnt have those scores the minute they happen.

Pathetic.

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I feel your view of society is one of the majority are there to be exploited for your benefit. If I have read you wrong and that is not the case, why do you insist on putting down people on a collective basis?

My view of society is that anywhere there is a population, there is demand for services. I want to earn a living, the service I've chosen to supply is decent affordable accomodation & related services.

If a tenant has no desire for that service, they are free to go elsewhere. There is no exploitation involved in this. It is a free market.

Here's exploitation for you:

When I'm at the airport, I'm herded into a controlled environment where food & drink is 40% more expensive than it is outside that environment. I am being exploited as I am locked into that environment for several hours and may need food or drink to survive.

That exploitation is accepted and even encouraged (think motorway services) by the people you voted for. If you & them pulled your fingers out, you'd do more to encourage competition rather than exploitation.

Edited by Time to raise the rents.

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Some recent responses to Marina on reporting a rising local market. (Marina who has been here a while and deserves some input).

1. You couldn't make it up, could you? Do you really believe this? Sounds like shoddy EA talk to me. ( JBeau)

2. Mystic Marina....... I could imagine the crystal ball and the dodgy voice

EA probably....... Sh!tting bricks and mortar (keepwatching)

3. Look it is clear what has happened. Marina has gone on holiday and his pet figured out how to use the pc. - picture of a monkey (iamconfusedagain)

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That attitude should be extended to include speculation on assets of any type. Why is someone who buys & sells shares any different? Or someone that works very hard at buying & selling trinkets down at Camden market, or someone who buys & sells cars - what did any of these people do to deserve to earn any money? None of them made the products, they speculated that if they bought the product at a certain price, they could sell it for a higher price later on....

You're missing the subtlety of the STR argument here.

It's "bad" speculation to buy and hope to sell for more money later on. However it is "good" speculation to sell and hope to buy for less latter on... (Especially if in the meantime you buy gold or shares hoping to sell for more later) :blink:

Edited by Magpie

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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