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RichM

Generation Debt Is Changing, But Not As Mr Blair Imagines

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yes. Rich, you're right....It's amazing how apolitical young people are.........

Since the end of communism and the rise of free market capitalism no-one has anything to get het up about apart from funny eco-lefty type things........

On the whole free market capitalism delivers the goods...Housing is an obvious exception........

Edited by Michael

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yes. Rich, you're right....It's amazing how apolitical young people are.........

Since the end of communism and the rise of free market capitalism no-one has anything to get het up about apart from funny eco-lefty type things........

And most of the latter tend to be useful idiots that act as stooges for anti-development types.

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quite right!.............the wealthy 70 yo Colonels of the CPRE are actually supported by some of the younger greens!..........

Would it really hury to increase the proportion of land built on in the Uk from 10% to 15%????to house our population?

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The amount of new building during the boom has been amazing - flats, townhouses, detached. If there's a bit of ground build on it. There's more than enough housing - there may even be a glut judging by the amount of currently empty homes for sale or rent.

The problem is the money supply and cheap credit, which allows speculators to pump billions of freshly-created money into the housing market. Around 60% of every pound in circulation was created as mortgage debt and it is the main way of supplying money. This means banks take an evergreater ownership of the nation's housing stock - the higher prices go, they less able people are to buy home with pre-earned money and need greater help from bankers.

Returning to the issue in hand, while I'm pretty sure most young people are not turning to the left there seems to be two main groups. First the 'I don't care as long as I can get smashed at Lloyds bar every Saturday folks' and the 'neo-puritans'.

It's amazing how many mainstream people now have an anti-consumerism that only a committed activist would have had a few years back. I guess the difference is that now consumer society isn't something to 'enjoy' anymore - it means huge debt, the conversion of every town into clone shopping havens selling largley pointless tat, the replacement of interesting shops and pubs with bland chain bars, it means a hollowed-out poverty-pay job market based mostly on retail and low-grade clerical work where everyone lives in grotty shared houses.

It's becoming like the early 90s again. In the late ninties it was all 'Web Design', trendy specs, minimalist interitors, technogadets, cool one-syllable bars playing sophisticated forms of jazz-infused house music. Now I'm seeing more dreadlocked 'alternative' styles on the streets, people at work now singing the praises of their reliable old car rather than lusting after the latest mean machine, people asking why anyone wants a big TV when there's so much crap on the box.

There's a good book called the Growth Illusion, which has a great chapter on how by many measures the last recession saw a massive upturn in quality of life for the majority of people. Why should we really fear a recession? The low paid who become jobless won't be any worse off on the dole and everyone in work can enjoy crashing prices and we'll have have to make our own fun rather than have the latest PR-department must-have 'lifestyle' shoved into our face.

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The amount of new building during the boom has been amazing - flats, townhouses, detached. If there's a bit of ground build on it. There's more than enough housing - there may even be a glut judging by the amount of currently empty homes for sale or rent.

The problem is the money supply and cheap credit, which allows speculators to pump billions of freshly-created money into the housing market. Around 60% of every pound in circulation was created as mortgage debt and it is the main way of supplying money. This means banks take an evergreater ownership of the nation's housing stock - the higher prices go, they less able people are to buy home with pre-earned money and need greater help from bankers.

Returning to the issue in hand, while I'm pretty sure most young people are not turning to the left there seems to be two main groups. First the 'I don't care as long as I can get smashed at Lloyds bar every Saturday folks' and the 'neo-puritans'.

It's amazing how many mainstream people now have an anti-consumerism that only a committed activist would have had a few years back. I guess the difference is that now consumer society isn't something to 'enjoy' anymore - it means huge debt, the conversion of every town into clone shopping havens selling largley pointless tat, the replacement of interesting shops and pubs with bland chain bars, it means a hollowed-out poverty-pay job market based mostly on retail and low-grade clerical work where everyone lives in grotty shared houses.

It's becoming like the early 90s again. In the late ninties it was all 'Web Design', trendy specs, minimalist interitors, technogadets, cool one-syllable bars playing sophisticated forms of jazz-infused house music. Now I'm seeing more dreadlocked 'alternative' styles on the streets, people at work now singing the praises of their reliable old car rather than lusting after the latest mean machine, people asking why anyone wants a big TV when there's so much crap on the box.

There's a good book called the Growth Illusion, which has a great chapter on how by many measures the last recession saw a massive upturn in quality of life for the majority of people. Why should we really fear a recession? The low paid who become jobless won't be any worse off on the dole and everyone in work can enjoy crashing prices and we'll have have to make our own fun rather than have the latest PR-department must-have 'lifestyle' shoved into our face.

COAB,

I completely agree with you - a return to the early nineties is what we need!! I posted something similar to what you have just said on another thread:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=26915

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I think I might have been the poster you refer to in that post.

I'm from the Westcountry too, although I was too much of a kid/young teen to really enjoy the scene you describe. God, though, Citizen Fish, Back to the Planet, Senser, Levellers, DMs decorated with ornate tippex daisies, Eat Static, free raves, free festivals, those hooded tops that looked like carpets. Every summer Zummerzeh was the epicentre of the crusty-techno-folkie-alternative-raving universe. Bloody marvelous stuff. It didn't even feel crappy to live near sodding Bridgwater.

Back then we all seemed to be into bands that didn't seem to revolve around looking like carefully contrived 70s-rockstar pretty boys. Actually, some bands like Carter USM looked faintly ridiculous. We all seemed to be into art and cartooning and forming bands with junkshop guitars and Atari STs.

No wonder the Tory fascists clamped down hard on the recession-era alternative scene in the mid-ninties. It was all getting a little too good for comfort...

Roll on negative growth...

Edited by CrashedOutAndBurned

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I think I might have been the poster you refer to in that post.

I'm from the Westcountry too, although I was too much of a kid/young teen to really enjoy the scene you describe. God, though, Citizen Fish, Back to the Planet, Senser, Levellers, DMs decorated with ornate tippex daisies, Eat Static, free raves, free festivals, those hooded tops that looked like carpets. Every summer Zummerzeh was the epicentre of the crusty-techno-folkie-alternative-raving universe. Bloody marvelous stuff. It didn't even feel crappy to live near sodding Bridgwater.

Back then we all seemed to be into bands that didn't seem to revolve around looking like carefully contrived 70s-rockstar pretty boys. Actually, some bands like Carter USM looked faintly ridiculous. We all seemed to be into art and cartooning and forming bands with junkshop guitars and Atari STs.

No wonder the Tory fascists clamped down hard on the recession-era alternative scene in the mid-ninties. It was all getting a little too good for comfort...

Roll on negative growth...

Good times. My sixth former DMs had daisies and butterflies, all done with acrylic paints. I also modified some jeans to be flares (you couldn't easily buy flares in those days).

I cracked open my Levellers CD just the other day for the first time in a long while. "The year is 1991, seems like freedom's dead and gone..." great stuff.

I have long hair again now, so perhaps the times are a-changin' once more. Or perhaps I'm just turning into a middle-aged hippy.

frugalista

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quite right!.............the wealthy 70 yo Colonels of the CPRE are actually supported by some of the younger greens!..........

Would it really hury to increase the proportion of land built on in the Uk from 10% to 15%????to house our population?

The Policy Exchange said that removing the shackles would consume an addition 2% of landmass and improve the ecosystem in towns and cities.

Just look at what Max Hastings (head of the CPRE) really thinks,

"We all have selfish interests - I am sure Polly has a few. But I do not see why these should disqualify any of us from expressing strong views about policies which have huge, permanent implications for rural Britain.

[..]

More housing there must be, but it seems sensible to think more carefully than the government has done about how much, and where. Once great tracts of field and hedgerow are laid down to concrete, they can never be reclaimed.

Nobody sensible, including the CPRE, believes the countryside can be pickled in aspic. Behind my house a farm dairy has been demolished and a small factory is being built, because milk is no longer profitable. [ :lol: ]

An idea has got around in government circles that wind farms are, without qualification, a good thing and a source of renewable energy. This is by no means undisputed. Today, a pretty unholy alliance of wind generator manufacturers and landowners eager for the cash from them is preaching the gospel. [i'm sure you can see the irony!]

[..]

The countryside today possesses no political clout. Thus, I agree with Polly that Michael Howard will not get a yard closer to Downing Street by securing its support.

Where we part company is that she seems to think this opens the way for the vast left-of-centre urban majority to trample with impunity in its trainers on the rural minority."

The latter basically sums up their entire outlook, I'm not sure what else you can say, the majority of people that are packed into towns and cities are basically the great unwashed hoard of lefties that need to be kept out at all costs as far as they're concerned, they are at best objectionable, town folk are useful for only one thing, funding their generous subsidies. It certainly belies what they really think of their town dwelling eco-freak friends.

Some on here doubted the true political backdrop to planning, the awful truth is all too apparent.

Edited by BuyingBear

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I think I might have been the poster you refer to in that post.

I'm from the Westcountry too, although I was too much of a kid/young teen to really enjoy the scene you describe. God, though, Citizen Fish, Back to the Planet, Senser, Levellers, DMs decorated with ornate tippex daisies, Eat Static, free raves, free festivals, those hooded tops that looked like carpets. Every summer Zummerzeh was the epicentre of the crusty-techno-folkie-alternative-raving universe. Bloody marvelous stuff. It didn't even feel crappy to live near sodding Bridgwater.

Back then we all seemed to be into bands that didn't seem to revolve around looking like carefully contrived 70s-rockstar pretty boys. Actually, some bands like Carter USM looked faintly ridiculous. We all seemed to be into art and cartooning and forming bands with junkshop guitars and Atari STs.

No wonder the Tory fascists clamped down hard on the recession-era alternative scene in the mid-ninties. It was all getting a little too good for comfort...

Roll on negative growth...

Yup, I think the key thing about this time was that it was not manufactured for us by f**king advertising executives and lifestyle magazines telling us what we are meant to and not meant to like (hint: the expensive stuff is what you are meant to like...). It shocks me to see how commercial interests have almost completely coopted youth culture nowadays. It is all prepackaged, predigested, snazzily marketed sh1t and I hate it all!!!!

Edited by marko

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1741631,00.html

Weird conclusions though. Don't see much turning to the left among young people I know, other than the usual soppy "save the environment" causes.

I must say I think it's the boomer generation that are becoming more left wing. They may have voted for Thatcher when they wanted to buy their council houses on the cheap, but now that they can look forward to selling their biggest asset to supplement their healthcare in retirement, they would prefer the state to provide.

I believe there's a chance we'll see a shift to the left over the next 10 years or so, and a HPC would make that more likely HMO.

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I must say I think it's the boomer generation that are becoming more left wing. They may have voted for Thatcher when they wanted to buy their council houses on the cheap, but now that they can look forward to selling their biggest asset to supplement their healthcare in retirement, they would prefer the state to provide.

I believe there's a chance we'll see a shift to the left over the next 10 years or so, and a HPC would make that more likely HMO.

Interesting theory, that the political centre ground is determined by demographic trends. As the population becomes proportionatly older their demands move from tax reduction (to benefit themselves) to better public services (to benefit themselves).

So the centre ground is moving to the left as a result of greater life expectancy and the ageing of the post war baby boom.

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So the centre ground is moving to the left as a result of greater life expectancy and the ageing of the post war baby boom.

Just another reason for the younger generations to get the hell out of here before income tax rates hit 90% again.

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BBC2 ran a series called "If...."

It looked at "what-if" scenarios - for instance, what if the gap between rich and poor continues to widen (gated estates and riots), what will happen in the future with demograhics (it showed a new product called Rejuven8 which was available at huge cost to the NHS but was on the NHS to satisfy the grey vote, which elderly people took which made them look younger, live longer etc all funded by huge tax hikes for the younger who began to send in their tax returns with Mickey Mouse drawn on them and eventually started a riot)

Not sure if the series is available on DVD, but it was kind of like a jump forward 20 years and a look at what Britain might/will be like, it was/is well worth seeing.

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Interesting theory, that the political centre ground is determined by demographic trends. As the population becomes proportionatly older their demands move from tax reduction (to benefit themselves) to better public services (to benefit themselves).

So the centre ground is moving to the left as a result of greater life expectancy and the ageing of the post war baby boom.

It's possibly an over simplification on my part to say 'left'. Because I believe the issues in the next policial shift will be different from say the 1970s. During the 70s it was all about worker's rights, this isn't really a big issue these days, or at least - not an election deciding issue.

I fully expect the big policial issues over the next 10 years to be: Healthcare (and how we pay for it), and

local public services (including council tax's replacement with a local income tax)

More interesting perhaps will be how boomer retirement plays out policially in the US - a country with no history of providing public services for all.

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On the whole free market capitalism delivers the goods...Housing is an obvious exception........

no it doesnt. capitalism uses ever increasing land costs to drive the populace to work. as soon as conditions improve - land prices rise. carrot = stick. we might have more dvd players, but we have lost huge fundementals. lose the new dvd players and we get affordable housing back.

its a game.

your / me are 'prawns'.

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So the centre ground is moving to the left as a result of greater life expectancy and the ageing of the post war baby boom.

Hmmm, at least the original left had some idea (or gave the pretence) of sustaining a society.

I think I will stick with writing to the Times/Telegraph, but appeal to people's patriotism.

No kids, no Britain. It's that simple.

Oh for some plain-speaking politicians. I'd love to know exactly what the Tory party thinks of the present housing boom. I really hope that they have sense to realise that's a bubble. I guess they wouldn't want to be tarred with the brush of creating a crash, but it'd be nice that they can see through the cr@p. So far we've only really had LD Vince Cable on our side.

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no it doesnt. capitalism uses ever increasing land costs to drive the populace to work

You're talking about crony capitalism, as we have in the UK right now. The poster you replied to was talking about free market capitalism, where government wouldn't have the ability to control interest rates or to prevent people from buying land and building a house there.

lose the new dvd players and we get affordable housing back.

Get government out of the money and housing business and we can get affordable housing back. While governments can print money at will and prevent the building of new houses, they can create housing bubbles any time they feel like it.

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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