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laurejon

Keep Up The Good Work, Vote Labour

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333px-LabourCampaignPoster20050115_CopyrightKaihsuTai.jpg

This one was plastered all over Longbridge in the run up to the election, along with a others declaring "No return to boom and bust", Labour HQ had them ripped down straight after MG-Rover collapsed, the potential embarrassment was obvious.

They sent out a crack team to remove this one :-

colin-poster.jpg

Some other joke ones'

nelec104.jpg

labourtax.jpg

labour3w.jpg

485.gif

mortgagetn.jpg

Great, however the last one is real. Gordon Said So on the 1st April last year.

Edited by BuyingBear

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Clearly Labour are in a mess but I also have deep reservations about the conservatives. Cameron is a bit of a chameleon. He seems to have no inclination to sort out the diabolical public services. I would also be worried about him if I was a parent on low income with a smart child. He seems more interested in toadying up to the Guardian.

If you work in the media or public services, you now have two political parties to choose from. If you are a pensioner or work in a factory or run a small business then you are out of luck.

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For me the Libs are no choice at all. I am neither Gay, Fat, Sexually Deviant, or an Alchoholic, and I am all for putting criminals away, for good if required.

I dont believe in Social Justice, or Equality, I believe in the ancient and outdated conceopt of working for a living else you starve.

I also believe that we should have an NHS, and Dentists, something the Tories also believed in.

If you think the Tories were destroying the NHS, come back to the UK in five years time and see if you can find anything resembling the NHS 8 years ago!!. And if you still have some teeth, tell us all about it.

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The trouble is so many people couldn't manage without their WTFC and are scared that they would be taken away Labour are voted out and that is exactly with GB/TB are banking on. People have been completely and utterly shafted.

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Well I dont know what WFTC is, I know its not What the F C and guess that it is something like a credit, maybe family credit.

And you are right, we have a dependent electorate.

Its gonna be a tough descision because for once people are going to have to vote on their principles and disregard the economics.

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Well I dont know what WFTC is, I know its not What the F C and guess that it is something like a credit, maybe family credit.

"Working Families Tax Credit" according to Google. 65% of people now receive state hand outs of some sort, it's a nice way of buying votes.

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Well I dont know what WFTC is, I know its not What the F C and guess that it is something like a credit, maybe family credit.

And you are right, we have a dependent electorate.

Its gonna be a tough descision because for once people are going to have to vote on their principles and disregard the economics.

Unfortunately principles don't keep a roof over your head or feed you.

We are basically up the creek from what I read/hear from young parents or even old ones.

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The simple fact is that they are taking it with one hand, then handing back a crumb.

Get rid of them, and for sure there will be no benefits for anyone other than those that deserve them. But equally there will be a removal of high taxation.

Its a joke is it not that they will deduct 800 quid each month from each parents pay packet, then hand them back 50 quid and think they are doing well.

Edited by laurejon

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I completely agree with you but then I don't qualify for them anyway, however the problem is that Mr and Ms average believe they can't live without them and it is actually a very flawed system which quite regularly removes them from the family budget having over paid in one year, imagine the families relief when the next year they are reinstated. It's the biggest load of BS you could imagine and 65% of people have fallen hook line and sinker.

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The spate of recent payment cockups perfectly illustrates the state of dependence and the resentment it breeds, you only have to look at the reporting of government claw-backs and tales of woe, the proles are like a puppet on a string. When an election rolls around just tell them they must re-elect their corrupt masters otherwise the nasty people will take their money away, they will jump like Pavlov's dog, every time.

It's quite funny really, the hold they have over people.

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Well I dont know what WFTC is, I know its not What the F C and guess that it is something like a credit, maybe family credit.

And you are right, we have a dependent electorate.

Its gonna be a tough descision because for once people are going to have to vote on their principles and disregard the economics.

:o WTF does that mean? And what principles would those be? Most people's principles are based upon their own economic circumstances in looking after their loved ones. Unless of course your the BNP in which case they are based upon a pathological hatred of THEM, and subsequent scare tactics to make US feel more scared of having fanatical THEMs in parliament than fanatical USs. Personally either option horrifies me. I don't want people representing me who refer to Arabs in the same metaphors as Gobbels refered to Jews, and who then claim some sort of moral victory because they established they had a right to free expression of Xenophobia. Sure, be free with your Xenophobia. Let it hang man ;) Do you wear your Xens to the left or right? Actually I really don't care. I still don't want to vote for them.

But back to the main question. laurejon, you didn't mention anyone in particular, so I won't assume the above rant applies to you.

What principles are YOU talking about?

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Personally either option horrifies me. I don't want people representing me who refer to Arabs in the same metaphors as Gobbels refered to Jews

What has this got to do with welfare state exactly? Have I missed half the thread or are people constructing their own straw men just for shits and giggles.

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What has this got to do with welfare state exactly? Have I missed half the thread or are people constructing their own straw men just for shits and giggles.

Sorry BuyingBear, but everytime I see an oblique references to voting for 'principles' I get a shiver, nowadays. Its shits not giggles that worry me.

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Sorry BuyingBear, but everytime I see an oblique references to voting for 'principles' I get a shiver, nowadays. Its shits not giggles that worry me.

I interpreted it as a reference to bread and circuses, many regimes allow you to get on provided you do as they say, don't rock the boat or ask too many questions, Russia is a case in point, China increasingly so, even Singapore in a subtle way.

In this country we're now being told to accept dubious behavior as a matter of course, such as a government that garners bungs for titles and contracts, half of the cabinet with property dealings that would make Van Hoogstraten blush and the laundering of bribes from the mafia in reward for lying for corrupt foreign heads of state. But don't ask too many questions otherwise we'll take away your £50 per week.

Edited by BuyingBear

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I interpreted it as a reference to bread and circuses, many regimes allow you to get on provided you do as they say, don't rock the boat or ask too many questions, Russia is a case in point, China increasingly so, even Singapore in a subtle way.

In this country we're now being told to accept dubious behavior as a matter of course, such as a government that garners bungs for titles and contracts, half of the cabinet with property dealings that would make Van Hoogstraten blush and the laundering bribes from the mafia in reward for lying for corrupt foreign heads of state. But don't ask too many questions otherwise we'll take away your £50 per week.

Well that I can agee with. Its getting more an more sickening by the day.

My problem at the moment is with the one line oblique references. When I see it I am expecting a BNP moment. Its a subliminal indoctrination technique that allows chunks of information to get passed cognitively unprocessed to the unconscious to become a carpet of ideological background references that feed into any predispositions. As you point out, your interpretation of an oblique reference is entirely different to mine. The problem for me is that it is difficult to have a decent debate when I am aware that the motives of some of these posters is not to have the debate but lead people to foregone conclusions and while I am watching the rhetorical devices that are being used to achieve it.

Its a shame because their is so much that is rotten in the state of Demark Blighty and it just keeps getting worse. Not that I think that anyone else is any better (including the BNP!). They are all after power and control freaking. That is what binds most politicians together. Everyone wants to impose their utopia, and in each case it becomes a swill of a utopia for the chosen few and a dystopia for most people. I am bitterly disappointed by this government. Tessa and the Casinos is another case in point. Coming from Australia, the worst that was ever said of Paul Keating was that he was arrogant. He didn't take bung backhanders, he didn't become a board member for any companies until he had left public office. He was high minded and committed to public service. His immortal word were "I'f you want to get anywhere in politics you don't f*ck around"! Even Bob Hawke, who I couldn't stand for his slippery ways (and who did :blink: ) was never accused of anything fundamentally corrupt.

I think its the epoch rather than the name of the party, since we are now seeing the same sort of shadiness amongst Australian conservative politicians that we are seeing with British labour politicians.

Politicians get a very nice financial package so that they can be in that position. They have the most ridiculous pensions concievable. They get benefits for houses they don't live in as well as houses they do. They have the capacity for a very nice life just on state funding. That is so that they can abstract themselves from the lower reaches of behaviour and concentrate on public service. That was a general understanding when I was a kid. But nowadays, although they piously claim they are driven by a sense of public service and they still get the puffball life, they scream if anyone dares suggest they should restrict themselves to their elected role and talk about how much they could earn in the private sector (b*llocks, b*llocks, b*llocks - untested hypotheses presented by overinflated egos)

I would suggest that the only way to stop the rot is to make it illegal for politicians to hold a second job of any sort. Their should be a limit to what they can borrow, and their blind investment trusts should be forced to be genuinely blind. Not sort of semi-blind as in the David Blunkett trust. If they don't like it and think they could do better in the private sector let them try their luck and stand aside for the countless talented people who are waiting in line for their job.

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My problem at the moment is with the one line oblique references. When I see it I am expecting a BNP moment. Its a subliminal indoctrination technique that allows chunks of information to get passed cognitively unprocessed to the unconscious to become a carpet of ideological background references that feed into any predispositions.

Personally I don't give two shits about the BNP, they are electorally insignificant and the vast majority of people see them for what they are. I certainly wouldn't let them colour your thinking.

If you believe that anybody that dares to criticize NuLabour has those sort of leanings then you're sadly mistaken, they are widely loathed.

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Personally I don't give two shits about the BNP, they are electorally insignificant and the vast majority of people see them for what they are. I certainly wouldn't let them colour your thinking.

If you believe that anybody that dares to criticize NuLabour has those sort of leanings then you're sadly mistaken, they are widely loathed.

Not at all. NuLabour are the most corrupt bunch of f*ckers I have ever seen. I come from a Labour family and as such I am like anyone who has believed and then been disillusioned, even more cynical than the average. As I said, I think its the epoch. As far as BNP goes, until you witnessed Pauline Hanson first hand you would never believe what people will swallow if it is wrapped up in a pretty package of 'ordinaryness' (although her voice was appalling!!! - and then she ended up in jail for electoral fraud :D ) But I take your point. Thanks for the advice...

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The BNP since you brought it up, do offer some policies that are becoming more and more acceptable to many people.

The are making themselves more and more electable, however I like many would never vote for them. I think most fair minded people realise that they have designs that go beyond their stated wishes. We have the same with the Labour Party, they too have done nothing that even closely resembles their manifesto's during election time. And the war, well that was the icing on the cake for me.

I'm afraid I will be voting Tory, I have always in the past and I see no reason not to again.

I like the idea of Grammer Schools for gifted children, and I also like the idea of faith schools that deliver good results. I also like the idea that you work for a living, and I like the idea that we dont import too many immigrants. I like the idea that we welcome the immigrants we have, and I also like the idea that we help them to integrate into the communities in such a fashion that three generations down the line they are totally absorbed into british culture in such a way that Britain remains unique in the world not another mess of religious squables causing mayhem to all around.

In particular I like the Conservatives because they offer an economy that is built on truth, and like our household budgets there are times when we can spend, and times when we must save.

BNP are only capitalising on people's worries and concerns given that we now have one of the most evil and corrupt governments in office for over a century. For me a Government that is lying to the people 24/7 is a Government that should go, immediately.

Surely New Labours Position is now untennable.

Champagne Socialists, the same the world over.

John Prescott gave the go-ahead for a firm of developers to build an enormous shopping centre months after the owners of the company secretly gave Labour a £3.3 million loan.

Sir David Garrard and Andrew Rosenfeld, the "Minerva Two", won the backing of the Deputy Prime Minister, to build a £500 million retail centre in Croydon, south London, which will become one of the country's 10 biggest shopping malls.

The 'Minerva Two': Sir David Garrard and Andrew Rosenfeld

Mr Prescott, who claims that he did not know about the series of loans that have plunged Labour into a crisis about sleaze, ruled last October that a rival retail development should not go ahead.

The revelations will fuel the "loans for peerages" row engulfing Tony Blair and his party and increase questions over possible conflicts of interest. Labour has admitted receiving loans worth £13.95 million to pay for last year's election campaign, bringing calls for Mr Blair to step down and the opening of a police investigation.

Four of those providing loans - including Sir David - were nominated for peerages but have been turned down by the House of Lords Appointments Committee.

The other three are Dr Chai Patel, the owner of Priory Healthcare, Barry Townsley, a stockbrocker, and Sir Gulam Noon, an entrepreneur.

In the 2005 shopping centre case, Mr Prescott backed Croydon council's decision not to allow Bishops Court 2, a rival project to the Minerva mall. After he did so, the council put out an official statement, saying: "Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott has given further backing to Minerva's Park Place retail development scheme."

The proposed mall in Croydon

Sir David is expected to undergo a televised grilling this week by MPs on the Commons public accounts committee over his role in the loans-for-peerages affair.

Last night, Peter Kilfoyle, the former Labour defence minister, said the Minerva revelations made the Government and the Labour Party look "desperately seedy".

He said: "There may be an innocent explanation for this but the whole problem is the inference that people can draw from this case. These loans look so desperately seedy. There is the perception that there is a link here and people are very, very suspicious. That is damaging to the Government, the Labour Party and politics in general."

Last night, a spokesman for Mr Prescott's department said: "Mr Prescott did not grant planning permission to Minerva. It was done by Croydon council."

A spokesman for Mr Rosenfeld said: "The planning decision was taken by an independent planning inspector, operating completely in isolation whose job is to arbitrate over rival schemes."

A spokesman for Sir David declined to comment.

As the new revelations emerged, there were also protests from former staff of Allders, whose flagship Croydon store was at the centre of Minerva's plans for its Bluewater-style development. While Sir David was chairman of Minerva, Allders collapsed, leaving 3,500 staff with an estimated £70 million shortfall in their pension fund.

Mr Rosenfeld's spokesman said: "The administration of Allders happened at the end of January 2005 and from that point it was not in Minerva's control."

Sir David, 67, was chairman of Minerva until March last year, when he was succeeded by Mr Rosenfeld, 43. Sir David personally loaned Labour £2.3 million before the election. In addition to his £200,000 Labour donation he has made a £2.5 million donation to Mr Blair's City Academy project.

Mr Rosenfeld, who co-founded Minerva with Sir David in 1990, lent Labour £1 million. His estimated wealth is £79 million while Sir David's is £105 million.

When Sir David stepped down as chairman, he cashed in shares in the company worth £37 million, retaining a further £15 million of shares. Last October, when the planning decision was made, Minerva shares were hovering below 250p. Since then, they have climbed steadily and this weekend stood at 329p.

It also emerged yesterday that Sir David made a £200,000 donation to Labour in 2003 shortly after lodging a planning application to build the 50-storey Minerva Tower, the tallest building in the City of London.

The building was referred to Mr Prescott's department for final approval six months after the loan but the Deputy Prime Minister decided not to "call in" the application for detailed scrutiny despite widespread opposition.

Another name on Labour's list of secret lenders, Derek Tullett, received a suspended prison sentence for his significant part in what was described as "a gigantic system of international tax fraud" it has emerged.

Mr Tullett, 71, who lent Labour £400,000, was also fined £8,500 by a Brussels court in 1992 over the same offences which related to £700,000 of "secret commissions" paid to foreign exchange dealers. The money was paid by the Belgian subsidiary of Tullett & Tokyo, which Mr Tullett helped found.

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Where did the BNP come into this?

I find the BNP fascinating. Half their manifesto is really good, if populist material. The other half is complete psychotic, drooling, gibbering fantasy.

IIRC they had stuff in their last manifesto about introducing national service on a Swiss model so everyone would have assault rifles to carry home from Tescos. They also wanted to change the law so that Ireland could voluntarily re-unify with the UK! As if! Completely out to lunch.

Plus, no matter how good their manifesto or how expenssive Griffin's suit is, cant hide the fact that they are a bunch of scummy, cheap, anti-semitic racsists.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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