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Bbc: House Buyers 'making Sacrifices'

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/your_money/4844226.stm

House buyers 'making sacrifices'

Britons are taking on extra jobs or cancelling holidays to be able to buy their first home, a survey suggests.

The research, carried out by broker Purely Mortgages, also claims more than a quarter of people are entering the property market without a deposit.

Some buyers even said they delayed starting a family

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I can confirm the story about people delaying having a family or even forgetting the idea of having a family. I am having a bit of a career change and re-training as a teacher ( please don't slag me off for joining the army of the public sector - I've done my time in the private sector too and I just wanted to do something worthwhile and interesting ).

I went to a conference in Kent the other day and the Union guys told me that schools were begining to make teachers redundant because of the high cost of living i.e housing. They said that people were either moving out of the area , delaying starting a family or just forgetting the idea of having as family atall. Therefore there were less children and therefore smaller schools were losing staff and facing closure.

So this is just one of the real costs of extortionate house prices - people giving up on families - what a ******* mess. The longer this goes on the bigger the disaster it seems to be. Why don't you BTL muppets / E.As etc open your eyes to the consequences of your selfish greed and stupidity, it is ruining the lives of millions and ruining this country.

Edited by Bearfacts

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Bearfacts,

This has been well documented on here for ages.

Agree, it will eventually destroy the fabric of the country, the main causers of the situation won't be too happy either with the end result for many reasons.

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We need more kids to keep the country going as the population ages.

We have a housing policy delaying people having kids.

You don't have to be a genius to figure this one out.

Does anyone know of any non-anecdotal evidence (i.e. studies/articles) which back up the fact people are delaying starting families for housing reasons?

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Speaking of destroying the fabric of our country...was having a chat with my bro last night who likes to think of himself as a leftie traditionalist and both of us are pretty right wing when it comes to immigration and the affect it is having on housing - especially in London.

We both agreed that we were amazed that there wasnt more racially motivated violence in the capital, especially amongst the working class who have seen accomodation spiral beyound their dreams whilst a lot of immigrants know how to play the system and get subsidised council properties.

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But, being devil's advocate, if the shoe were on the other foot i.e. you had a large property portfolio and hade made out like a bandit for the last few years (maybe you have I don't know?) - would you care about the socio-economical consequences?

I mean, if you had the new BMW X5 and were retired at the age of 35 would your language be the same? can you put your hand on your heart and say that if you were a property magnate you would take a philanthropic viewpoint, and be quite happy if the value of your portfolio dropped 40% because you knew that it was for the 'good of society'?

Because if you honestly can't say that - honestly - then moaning on here is nothing more than sour grapes!

What I'm getting at is there are a lot of posts on here along the lines of "don't these greedy pigs think about society and the sustainable future of our country" etc. etc. and the question is:

"if you had made a fortune in property - can you honestly say that you would care about the housing situation?"

Because I would suggest that unless you can't say you would care then a lot of your vitriole is based on the fact that you are simply resentful because you've missed out (as I have BTW but I'm not jealous or resentful because it's self-destructive) on easy money. And therefore you have no right to moan, because your motives for doing so are not correct.

Just a thought, as I say simply putting something up for discussion!

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But, being devil's advocate, if the shoe were on the other foot i.e. you had a large property portfolio and hade made out like a bandit for the last few years (maybe you have I don't know?) - would you care about the socio-economical consequences?

Yup. Good point. Probably wouldnt give a toss if I was in that situation... :lol:

However, I'm just searching for possibilities of things I think may happen if prices remain so unaffordable.

Wish I'd bought 5 years ago but I was just out of Uni, temping and chasing a dream and was in no position to buy. Neither was I economically aware at that age.

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We need more kids to keep the country going as the population ages.

We have a housing policy delaying people having kids.

You don't have to be a genius to figure this one out.

Does anyone know of any non-anecdotal evidence (i.e. studies/articles) which back up the fact people are delaying starting families for housing reasons?

Looks like this was a reason stated in IPPR report..

Yet it is not just the loss of present income or future earnings that is making middle-class couples delay having children. “What is putting off my peers from the next stage in adult life, which is marrying and starting a family, is student debt and rising house prices,” says Julia Margo, co-author of the IPPR report on the baby deficit.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2058517,00.html

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Some people are even delaying having kids...!!

Often having kids isn't particularly planned it just sort of..happens subconsciously and is accepted. Many more people than "some" are delaying having kids and don't even realise it.

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What a mess ! The price people are paying to support the millionaire, money for nothing, wet dreams of idiot BTLrs is in reality missing out on the (IMHO) greatest experience and most fundamental reason for our existence, in life having a family.

Watached a programme on BBC2 last night about night workers , apparently there are 7 million of them in the U.K. Seems people are being driven to more and more desperate measures to make ends meet ( due to inflated peoperty prices ). Couples who meet only briefly over breakfast as they pass each other on ther way to work or back to bed. People who literally go to bed clutching their blackberries in case they miss a client call.

I think maybe as a nation we have got our priorites a bit out of perspective. The impression I get is that people are going to the lengths of missing out on children, ruining their health through working excessive hours / night shifts etc, destroying any sort of family life or relationship because they are just too plain exhausted. And all in pursuit of what ... a pile of bricks and ******** mortar- and that is all a house is , not some highly sophisticated piece of engineering made from rare and expansive materials.

What really amazes me is that people pay these ridiculous prices for what is just a pile of bricks and timber , thrown up by half brained babboons ( most of the time). I have actually built a house ... it isn't rocket science and the materials and labour that going in to building one certainly do not justify the costs. I think people have no idea how much it costs to make a house / flat. You ought to be able to build a reasonable two bed flat (say 800sqft) for £50k tops... yet people are willing to pay half a million quid for one - mad or what ?

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You ought to be able to build a reasonable two bed flat (say 800sqft) for £50k tops... yet people are willing to pay half a million quid for one - mad or what ?

I also saw a good quote somewhere, I think it was MoneyWeek, pointing out that all that has changed to Britains housing stock over the last 5 years (whilst prices have doubled) is that most of the houses are just five years older :)

Edited by DoubleBubbleTrouble

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But, being devil's advocate, if the shoe were on the other foot i.e. you had a large property portfolio and hade made out like a bandit for the last few years (maybe you have I don't know?) - would you care about the socio-economical consequences?

I mean, if you had the new BMW X5 and were retired at the age of 35 would your language be the same? can you put your hand on your heart and say that if you were a property magnate you would take a philanthropic viewpoint, and be quite happy if the value of your portfolio dropped 40% because you knew that it was for the 'good of society'?

Because if you honestly can't say that - honestly - then moaning on here is nothing more than sour grapes!

What I'm getting at is there are a lot of posts on here along the lines of "don't these greedy pigs think about society and the sustainable future of our country" etc. etc. and the question is:

"if you had made a fortune in property - can you honestly say that you would care about the housing situation?"

Because I would suggest that unless you can't say you would care then a lot of your vitriole is based on the fact that you are simply resentful because you've missed out (as I have BTW but I'm not jealous or resentful because it's self-destructive) on easy money. And therefore you have no right to moan, because your motives for doing so are not correct.

Just a thought, as I say simply putting something up for discussion!

Actually, I would care - maybe I'm unusual in that; but to my mind when I'm older I want to live in a society where people get gradually more prosperous rather than less, and where social inequalities become less pronounced rather than more. I want to live in a society in which young people can feel engaged in their communities, because it's good for social cohesion. I also want to know that when I'm older, there will be enough nurses, care workers, teachers, policemen, to look after *me* when I need it, and where I don't have to live in a middle-class enclave paying privately for everything because the welfare state has collapsed.

And more than that, I in the future I want to live in a society that isn't just a dying culture with a lot of whiny old people moaning about their pensions, healthcare and their portfolio yields - I want to live in a society where there is a vibrant younger generation - children and teenagers who are happy and well-cared for and have things to look forward to. I want to live in a society that has a sense of optimism and drive about it - a sense that people are getting happier and going places! I even want to live in a country that is still a vibrant international presence on the world stage - and not some enormous boomer retirement park like a UK-shaped Florida.

So, yes, I would be happy to trade some personal wealth in order to have that. Does that make me odd? :unsure:

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Not just for bricks and mortar - but for the 'lifestyle' that the media programmes them into thinking they must have (must have this, must have that, this week's most fashionable swing-top bin only 300 quid etc.) and peer competition forces them to slave for.

As for the sleeping with the Blackberry thing, how ironic isn't it that 50 years ago a future was predicted in that technology would free us and a life of leisure beckoned. Instead it has chained us and enslaved us (not the fault of the technology itself, but of the application).

I noted recently that Cisco were using the phrase '24 hour workforce' in their advertising blurb. How abhorrent!

It is a loss of perspective and almost a form of psychopathy.

At the end of the day - how important is it really to have your own home? You can rent a place and be quite happy. And yet home ownership seems to be in the UK a matter of such utmost importance that people are willing to sacrifice their lives for it and worry so much about it that it drives them to the point of mental illness.

trouble is - I don't see it changing.

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But, being devil's advocate, if the shoe were on the other foot i.e. you had a large property portfolio and hade made out like a bandit for the last few years (maybe you have I don't know?) - would you care about the socio-economical consequences?

I mean, if you had the new BMW X5 and were retired at the age of 35 would your language be the same? can you put your hand on your heart and say that if you were a property magnate you would take a philanthropic viewpoint, and be quite happy if the value of your portfolio dropped 40% because you knew that it was for the 'good of society'?

Because if you honestly can't say that - honestly - then moaning on here is nothing more than sour grapes!

What I'm getting at is there are a lot of posts on here along the lines of "don't these greedy pigs think about society and the sustainable future of our country" etc. etc. and the question is:

"if you had made a fortune in property - can you honestly say that you would care about the housing situation?"

Because I would suggest that unless you can't say you would care then a lot of your vitriole is based on the fact that you are simply resentful because you've missed out (as I have BTW but I'm not jealous or resentful because it's self-destructive) on easy money. And therefore you have no right to moan, because your motives for doing so are not correct.

Just a thought, as I say simply putting something up for discussion!

Well I know these are extreme comparisons but would you care if you made a fortune out of selling tobacco, or selling arms to third world countries?

Of course most people would, since most people care about the greater community around them.

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Actually, I would care - maybe I'm unusual in that; but to my mind when I'm older I want to live in a society where people get gradually more prosperous rather than less, and where social inequalities become less pronounced rather than more. I want to live in a society in which young people can feel engaged in their communities, because it's good for social cohesion. I also want to know that when I'm older, there will be enough nurses, care workers, teachers, policemen, to look after *me* when I need it, and where I don't have to live in a middle-class enclave paying privately for everything because the welfare state has collapsed.

And more than that, I in the future I want to live in a society that isn't just a dying culture with a lot of whiny old people moaning about their pensions, healthcare and their portfolio yields - I want to live in a society where there is a vibrant younger generation - children and teenagers who are happy and well-cared for and have things to look forward to. I want to live in a society that has a sense of optimism and drive about it - a sense that people are getting happier and going places! I even want to live in a country that is still a vibrant international presence on the world stage - and not some enormous boomer retirement park like a UK-shaped Florida.

So, yes, I would be happy to trade some personal wealth in order to have that. Does that make me odd? :unsure:

No it doesn't make you odd at all. In fact, I think it's one of the most rational posts I've ever seen on here, or anywhere else for that matter.

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I think maybe as a nation we have got our priorites a bit out of perspective. The impression I get is that people are going to the lengths of missing out on children, ruining their health through working excessive hours / night shifts etc, destroying any sort of family life or relationship because they are just too plain exhausted. And all in pursuit of what ... a pile of bricks and ******** mortar- and that is all a house is , not some highly sophisticated piece of engineering made from rare and expansive materials.

Christ you have just pretty much explained the situation we are in, except we do all above JUST TO RENT / SURVIVE! We have one 2 yr old, I work daytime o/half nights baby goes to nursery three afternoons a week (can't afford any more) misses gets maybe 6 hours max sleep a day (usually 4 hours) and we can't afford any luxuries. Oh, and no we don't get any worthwhile help from the goveernment. We would love at least one more child but would end up homeless if any mistakes hapened - not that we get much time for that kind of thing anyway! We are currently talking to a lady from the CAB who is using our example (and many others) to send a report to #10 apparently - I aint holding my breath :ph34r: !

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No it doesn't make you odd at all. In fact, I think it's one of the most rational posts I've ever seen on here, or anywhere else for that matter.

Thanks! However, I have a strong suspicion that it also makes me a prize sucker, and that I'm never going to be rich :lol:

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Zaranna - doesn't make you 'odd' at all. Makes you a compassionate human being and means you have a developed soul. Bravo!

I too would be happy to pay more tax if for example it meant my streets were safe, my elderly and mentally ill cared for etc. but unfortunately so much tax money appears to be squandered (see dog's regular 'tax abuser' posts) and i'm not convinced at all that it would be used well under the current regime.

As far as I can see, the UK is ripe and ready for a new political party. One that doesn't talk of 'right' or 'left' (surely these are outmoded thoughts?) but takes the best elements of both and moulds it into a new method of thinking about social justice, harmony, equality and balanced capitalism.

To the barricades!! I'll just stop off for a Big Mac on me way though. Bit peckish.

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Does anyone know of any non-anecdotal evidence (i.e. studies/articles) which back up the fact people are delaying starting families for housing reasons?

These may be of interest:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4728950.stm

'Baby gap' as maternity delayed

Parental leave should be paid for three months, the IPPR suggested

There is an annual 90,000 "baby gap" between the number of children women say they want and the number they have, a study suggests.

-----------------

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/if/3557741.stm

House price fall as population ages?

Property prices could fall as the UK population gets older and the birth rate drops over the next 20 years, warns government pensions adviser Adair Turner.

----------------

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1 in 4 children born in the uk are now born to a mother that wasint born in the uk

add on second generation immigrants born here having children and you start to see a very clear picture that the british are not having children anymore.

ie were talking about half the children in the uk born to first or second generation immigrants.

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1 in 4 children born in the uk are now born to a mother that wasint born in the uk

add on second generation immigrants born here having children and you start to see a very clear picture that the british are not having children anymore.

ie were talking about half the children in the uk born to first or second generation immigrants.

Scary...the thing is its a case of if you cant beat them join them.

Speaking to Asian friends of mine in London they are able to become powerhouses of family wealth by all living in the same house for a long time...kids in their 30's living with parents and grandparents.

Think of the cumulative wealth growing there! The kids in their 30's buy properties but still live at home and rent their properties out.

"Anglo-Saxon" Brits either need to start emulating this or face up to a reality that most of London will be owned by the family-unit econmoies of the Asian Brits.

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These may be of interest:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4728950.stm

'Baby gap' as maternity delayed

Parental leave should be paid for three months, the IPPR suggested

There is an annual 90,000 "baby gap" between the number of children women say they want and the number they have, a study suggests.

-----------------

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/if/3557741.stm

House price fall as population ages?

Property prices could fall as the UK population gets older and the birth rate drops over the next 20 years, warns government pensions adviser Adair Turner.

----------------

Great stuff, cheers. Anyone got any more?

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Zaranna - doesn't make you 'odd' at all. Makes you a compassionate human being and means you have a developed soul. Bravo!

I too would be happy to pay more tax if for example it meant my streets were safe, my elderly and mentally ill cared for etc. but unfortunately so much tax money appears to be squandered (see dog's regular 'tax abuser' posts) and i'm not convinced at all that it would be used well under the current regime.

Labour have been relying on the public to think like this which is exactly why we pay historical levels of tax which just appear to line the pockets of other private ventures, and of course the pockets of the rich.

As far as I can see, the UK is ripe and ready for a new political party. One that doesn't talk of 'right' or 'left' (surely these are outmoded thoughts?) but takes the best elements of both and moulds it into a new method of thinking about social justice, harmony, equality and balanced capitalism.

have you not just ddescribed NuLabour?

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Speaking of destroying the fabric of our country...was having a chat with my bro last night who likes to think of himself as a leftie traditionalist and both of us are pretty right wing when it comes to immigration and the affect it is having on housing - especially in London.

We both agreed that we were amazed that there wasnt more racially motivated violence in the capital, especially amongst the working class who have seen accomodation spiral beyound their dreams whilst a lot of immigrants know how to play the system and get subsidised council properties.

er, well there was in the 70s, but white flight has meant that demographic has shifted East along the Thames estuary.

Real-time social-engineering before your very eyes :-/

Edited by Grime- skint wouldbe ftb

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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