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James516

Plenty Of Places For Ftbs In London

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I don't understand people saying it's impossible to buy a place in London. There are loads of flats on Rightmove at £100K, and with average London wages of £28900 (ONS 2005) then a mortgage of 3.5x salary is no problem.

The problem is FTBs wanting to move immediately into houses, not flats, and even then wanting more than 1 bedroom. It's a property ladder - you can't skip the bottom rung! I agree that an average FTB in London can't afford a 2-bed penthouse flat in Putney, but there a great swathes of affordable housing in E and SE postcodes. People have to be willing to live in a bad area, and ride on the gentirfication process.

I bought a horrible 1-bed ex-council flat in Elephant and Castle 7 years ago, for 3x salary at the time. It has been a challenge - we had to put bars on the windows after being burgled, and there were often police signs asking for witnesses to stabbings, shootings etc. However, we have now been able to move to a fantastic 3-bed semi with nice garden in South Bucks, and all our friends who were bleating the whole time 'Oh, I couldn't live in Elephant' now think we've won the lottery or something.

It's simple - to get a nice place takes time and sacrifices, and the instant gratification generation of 20 and 30 somethings don't want to make the effort.

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I don't understand people saying it's impossible to buy a place in London. There are loads of flats on Rightmove at £100K, and with average London wages of £28900 (ONS 2005) then a mortgage of 3.5x salary is no problem.

The problem is FTBs wanting to move immediately into houses, not flats, and even then wanting more than 1 bedroom. It's a property ladder - you can't skip the bottom rung! I agree that an average FTB in London can't afford a 2-bed penthouse flat in Putney, but there a great swathes of affordable housing in E and SE postcodes. People have to be willing to live in a bad area, and ride on the gentirfication process.

I bought a horrible 1-bed ex-council flat in Elephant and Castle 7 years ago, for 3x salary at the time. It has been a challenge - we had to put bars on the windows after being burgled, and there were often police signs asking for witnesses to stabbings, shootings etc. However, we have now been able to move to a fantastic 3-bed semi with nice garden in South Bucks, and all our friends who were bleating the whole time 'Oh, I couldn't live in Elephant' now think we've won the lottery or something.

It's simple - to get a nice place takes time and sacrifices, and the instant gratification generation of 20 and 30 somethings don't want to make the effort.

Another new poster making a fool of themselves by not bothering to read the text on the website first before posting.

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Another new poster making a fool of themselves by not bothering to read the text on the website first before posting.

No me thinks they are a troll look at when they joined May 2005 and only 3 posts! I wonder whose alter-ego this is?

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I think the picture re: flats in London is now very different, with the proliferation of new builds that no-one wants. I would say buying a flat in London now is a bit more risky than it was even 3 yrs ago.

I was a ftb and I managed to get a 3 bed house in outer SW London. Cheaper areas do exist.

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James516,

Trouble is, £100k properties in E and SE London are going to fall more than other types of London property. 50% falls are possible, in my opinion. And don't forget, there's such a thing as 'degentrification'. I remember people talking about gentrification and up and coming areas in the late 1980s. I think in most cases it's only a temporary illusion, which pops with the bubble.

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Absolutely! Damn those pesky FTBs that do not buy when property is so affordable.

Just as an aside - it's a funny old world. Let's say you are lucky enough to be brought up in a nice 3 bed semi in South Bucks. When it is your turn to buy your own property you have to move from your nice, pleasant, decent environment - to a place full of burglars and crackheads??????????????

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I don't understand people saying it's impossible to buy a place in London. There are loads of flats on Rightmove at £100K, and with average London wages of £28900 (ONS 2005) then a mortgage of 3.5x salary is no problem.

The problem is FTBs wanting to move immediately into houses, not flats, and even then wanting more than 1 bedroom. It's a property ladder - you can't skip the bottom rung! I agree that an average FTB in London can't afford a 2-bed penthouse flat in Putney, but there a great swathes of affordable housing in E and SE postcodes. People have to be willing to live in a bad area, and ride on the gentirfication process.

I bought a horrible 1-bed ex-council flat in Elephant and Castle 7 years ago, for 3x salary at the time. It has been a challenge - we had to put bars on the windows after being burgled, and there were often police signs asking for witnesses to stabbings, shootings etc. However, we have now been able to move to a fantastic 3-bed semi with nice garden in South Bucks, and all our friends who were bleating the whole time 'Oh, I couldn't live in Elephant' now think we've won the lottery or something.

It's simple - to get a nice place takes time and sacrifices, and the instant gratification generation of 20 and 30 somethings don't want to make the effort.

What a complete load of rubbish. Things I point out - 7 years - average salary of 25k for a FTB - 3 x salary - London to Bucks - instant gratification for a 30 year old? Tut, tut. Can I just add that SW London is cheap for a reason, it's SW London! For those who go on about how it is 'the last affordable place in London', SW London has always been cheaper, ALWAYS. Always will for reasons cited above.

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I don't understand people saying it's impossible to buy a place in London. There are loads of flats on Rightmove at £100K, and with average London wages of £28900 (ONS 2005) then a mortgage of 3.5x salary is no problem.

The problem is FTBs wanting to move immediately into houses, not flats, and even then wanting more than 1 bedroom. It's a property ladder - you can't skip the bottom rung! I agree that an average FTB in London can't afford a 2-bed penthouse flat in Putney, but there a great swathes of affordable housing in E and SE postcodes. People have to be willing to live in a bad area, and ride on the gentirfication process.

I bought a horrible 1-bed ex-council flat in Elephant and Castle 7 years ago, for 3x salary at the time. It has been a challenge - we had to put bars on the windows after being burgled, and there were often police signs asking for witnesses to stabbings, shootings etc. However, we have now been able to move to a fantastic 3-bed semi with nice garden in South Bucks, and all our friends who were bleating the whole time 'Oh, I couldn't live in Elephant' now think we've won the lottery or something.

It's simple - to get a nice place takes time and sacrifices, and the instant gratification generation of 20 and 30 somethings don't want to make the effort.

I think the important thing to realise here is that you bought a shit place in 1999 when prices were cheap, not far off the bottom of the market. You have been lucky as prices have risen very sharply since then but they are not rising anymore.

Do you think that if you bought the same place today it is going to go up in price anywhere near the same amount in the next 7 years?

If you bought that shit flat today the likelyhood is that you will still be living in that shit flat in 7 years time, unable to move out.

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Do not know enough regarding FTB's personal experiences/circumstances to make generalized comments, but on this forum there have been posters saying they had evening jobs for a while but found it too tough on their day job so they quit, and others for sure who would not consider buying a one bed shoe box. That is their personal choice. But like this member I too started out in a part of London I would have preferred not to, (but it was 2 mins to tube and was ok) and did loads OT to pay the mortgage, it was a struggle even to get that 1st 1 bed. But as I was sick of getting thrown out every 6 months by LL's I wanted to feel bit more settled. (i was earning £11k and flat cost £55k) All I would say is SOME FTB's are buying these kinds of properties. it does not make it right and they should not have to buy them, but in London at least in the better areas prices are still rising it seems ? (will wait for LR 1/4 figures before i comment) and many look at the affordability issue and with a partner in a one bed they can afford to buy. That is just the FTB's i know of. Some are even stretching to £120k in places like E17 and getting a 2 bed and renting out the 2nd room. It is happening. I can only talk of London as that is the only area i hear about. Many would not want to live in such areas and again it is all about personal choice. But why is someone a troll for pointing this fact out????

Edited by beenhearingthisforyears

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It's a property ladder - you can't skip the bottom rung!

Umm, actually, the rate that my savings are increasing, if there's even a small downturn in the market I'll be skipping the bottom two or three rungs of "the ladder" in 3 to 4 years time.

You fail to see that the biggest issue at the moment is the way that the market has compressed in most areas - a 3 bed semi near me can be had for just over 200k, where a 1 bed ex council flat is 155k....you think it makes sense to pay 155 for the flat??? Thanks, but I'd rather save 50k over the next 3-4 years by renting the flat for £650 a month and then buy the semi.

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Absolutely! Damn those pesky FTBs that do not buy when property is so affordable.

Just as an aside - it's a funny old world. Let's say you are lucky enough to be brought up in a nice 3 bed semi in South Bucks. When it is your turn to buy your own property you have to move from your nice, pleasant, decent environment - to a place full of burglars and crackheads??????????????

My point exactly. Spoilt Gen Xers think that they shouldn't have to start at the bottom and work their way up, like their parents had to.

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I don't understand people saying it's impossible to buy a place in London. There are loads of flats on Rightmove at £100K, and with average London wages of £28900 (ONS 2005) then a mortgage of 3.5x salary is no problem.

[snip]

Nice to see a few new EAs on here. Enjoy your stay. :D

Ps. I've lived all over London in the last 20 years, and if you can find me a nice, safe place for £100k, I'll give you 10 percent commission. OK?

Oh, and Awooga. :D

Nomadd

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You fail to see that the biggest issue at the moment is the way that the market has compressed in most areas - a 3 bed semi near me can be had for just over 200k, where a 1 bed ex council flat is 155k....you think it makes sense to pay 155 for the flat??? Thanks, but I'd rather save 50k over the next 3-4 years by renting the flat for £650 a month and then buy the semi.

Erm, I see your point, but aren't your sums a bit out? Mortgage on 155K would be £1000 month or less. So you'll save up to £350 a month which is more like £12-16K over 3-4 years. Even allowing for the extra expenses of owning property I don't see how waiting 3-4 years will make you £50K richer?

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Nice to see a few new EAs on here. Enjoy your stay. :D

Ps. I've lived all over London in the last 20 years, and if you can find me a nice, safe place for £100k, I'll give you 10 percent commission. OK?

Oh, and Awooga. :D

Nomadd

Is there really such a place in London? I thought Islington would be great and many buy into the "dream" to live here. Had 2 murders in my immediate area (last year) and passed 3 yellow police "can you help" boards on way to tube yesterday........yeah and i pay a fortune to live here. You can live next door to a crack dealer and have cr@p neighbours in any part of UK.

Edited by beenhearingthisforyears

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Erm, I see your point, but aren't your sums a bit out? Mortgage on 155K would be £1000 month or less. So you'll save up to £350 a month which is more like £12-16K over 3-4 years. Even allowing for the extra expenses of owning property I don't see how waiting 3-4 years will make you £50K richer?

This is on top of what I already save (approx 750 - 1000 per month usually) - in truth it will probably be more than 50k I have stashed away by then.

350 per month, compound interest @ 4.5% is 18.5k by the way.

In addition, the 1k per month would only be the mortgage, not including buildings insurance, life insurance, service charge, maintenance charge, internal maintenance etc. These can easily be another 150 pcm between them.

Edited by FreeFall

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Erm, I see your point, but aren't your sums a bit out? Mortgage on 155K would be £1000 month or less. So you'll save up to £350 a month which is more like £12-16K over 3-4 years. Even allowing for the extra expenses of owning property I don't see how waiting 3-4 years will make you £50K richer?

Cos that person might also be saving more money, not just the difference between the rent and the mortgage!

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This is on top of what I already save (approx 750 - 1000 per month usually)

In addition, 1k per month would only be the mortgage, not including buildings insurance, service charge, maintenance charge etc, internal maintenance etc.

Fair enough, though it makes it a bit of a false comparison as you won't actually be saving 50K extra by waiting - sounds like it does make sense for you to wait though as there's definitely a lot to be said for trying to skip the "bottom rung" in a static or falling market.

Is there really such a place in London? I thought Islington would be great and many buy into the "dream" to live here. Had 2 murders in my immediate area...

But Islington is a bit of an illusion as it has for years been a strip of affluence around Upper Street surrounded by the much poorer areas of De Beauvoir on one side and North of Kings X on the other. It's only those who don't know much about London beyond the tube that perceive it as a good area per se. It has its nice bits of course, but its very mixed and some of what I see sold as "Islington" I wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

There are plenty of reasonably nice bits of London elsewhere- I've just moved up to Muswell Hill and it's very calm up there, if a bit dull and suburban.

But I think it's nonsense that you could get something decent for £100K that would be at all advisable. It's not snobbery about rough areas because I've lived in plenty - but you really don't want to be buying some overpriced tat in Thamesmead just to get a foothold in London at this stage - it's not worth the aggravation, and the cheap areas are some of the most overpriced because they have kept rising while nicer areas stagnated. It might have been a good strategy in 1999 but at this stage of the market I don't think it's good advice.

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I don't understand people saying it's impossible to buy a place in London. There are loads of flats on Rightmove at £100K, and with average London wages of £28900 (ONS 2005) then a mortgage of 3.5x salary is no problem.

The problem is FTBs wanting to move immediately into houses, not flats, and even then wanting more than 1 bedroom. It's a property ladder - you can't skip the bottom rung! I agree that an average FTB in London can't afford a 2-bed penthouse flat in Putney, but there a great swathes of affordable housing in E and SE postcodes. People have to be willing to live in a bad area, and ride on the gentirfication process.

I bought a horrible 1-bed ex-council flat in Elephant and Castle 7 years ago, for 3x salary at the time. It has been a challenge - we had to put bars on the windows after being burgled, and there were often police signs asking for witnesses to stabbings, shootings etc. However, we have now been able to move to a fantastic 3-bed semi with nice garden in South Bucks, and all our friends who were bleating the whole time 'Oh, I couldn't live in Elephant' now think we've won the lottery or something.

It's simple - to get a nice place takes time and sacrifices, and the instant gratification generation of 20 and 30 somethings don't want to make the effort.

Welcome to the forum you big bull you!

It's that their Mum's & Dad's have conditioned them to believe they're entitled to an easy ride. My experience has been that people willing to rough it for a while will get ahead. Those that won't, will get CC debts instead. (I'm just making up the CC debts bit).

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My point exactly. Spoilt Gen Xers think that they shouldn't have to start at the bottom and work their way up, like their parents had to.

I think the problem is that there is an obsession with living 'in' London.

I am not sure where you live in South Bucks, but I have looked around the Denham area, and two bed flats near the station are about £180k. Sure, it will take 30 minutes on the train, but it is a nice, safe area.

In London itself, you would have to go to the very worst areas to get a 2 bed place for this money.

All property is over-priced, but if more people started looking at the cheaper surrounding areas rather than insisting on living in the worst parts of the city, there is a lot more available for the same money.

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Isn't Kennington South East London? South East London is cheap isn't it? Not SW London, SW Londoin is expensive.

SW London as in Brixton, Streatham, Tulse Hill. Kennington is South West London. South East London is Plumstead, Woowich, Bromley, Peckham, Greenwich etc.

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SW London as in Brixton, Streatham, Tulse Hill. Kennington is South West London. South East London is Plumstead, Woowich, Bromley, Peckham, Greenwich etc.

Sorry but Kennington is SE11

South East 11

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Sorry but Kennington is SE11

South East 11

Really? Oops, sorry! I thought Stockwell, Kennington, Oval etc. etc. were SW. My mistake.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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