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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2099150,00.html

NHS sheds 2,000 jobs in a week

He said that the announcement helped to explain why Gordon Brown had “body-swerved the NHS question” in his speech. “Sacking nurses never looks good for the Government,” Mr Martin said. “These cuts will have a devastating impact [on] emergency planning in London.”

Andrew Lansley, the Tory health spokesman, said: “One year ago ministers were heralding NHS staff as the heroes who were delivering on waiting list targets. Today they are silent as the same NHS staff are threatened with redundancy. Faced with the failure of his billions to deliver corresponding improvements for patients, Gordon Brown and the Treasury have abandoned the NHS.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4835742.stm

Brown 'silence' on NHS criticised

Gordon Brown is facing criticism for not doing enough for the NHS in his Budget after a hospital announced job cuts - the fourth to do so in a week.

Yeah... yeah... the economy's doing just fine! :angry:

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And we have the BOE wondering whether rising pay will be a problem.

Well it is for the taxpayer, the BOE provided the slush fund and low rates for Gordon to unbalance the private/public sector and pile on more long term debt.

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Even longer hours for those left behind? :(

Hi,

Soon there will be more finance and related activities people than medical people in hospitals.... Ridiculous, the attempt to make NHS finances better by introducing those supposed monney aware (with fatty salary hummmm....) has failed. They are the ones that needs to be kicked out!!

TWT

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Hi,

Soon there will be more finance and related activities people than medical people in hospitals.... Ridiculous, the attempt to make NHS finances better by introducing those supposed monney aware (with fatty salary hummmm....) has failed. They are the ones that needs to be kicked out!!

TWT

This is what baffles me. I guess the NHS has accountants, financial directors and lots of line managers. These guys are reposnsible for budgets and maintaining sound finances, why aren't they getting their ar*ses kisked?

Not that the private sector is much of an example, but someone i.e. MPs must start taking control over this sort of stuff.

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The thing is, if people want these services they must pay for them.

Money doesnt grow on trees, the Government cannot just keep putting in its own money while the public contribute nothing.

We hear it time and time again from the public, they complain about councils, or the NHS but then dont want to pay anthing for them.

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The thing is, if people want these services they must pay for them.

Money doesnt grow on trees, the Government cannot just keep putting in its own money while the public contribute nothing.

We hear it time and time again from the public, they complain about councils, or the NHS but then dont want to pay anthing for them.

Yeah but we have paid for them! NI up, stealth taxes, fiscal drag the lot. They are getting stacks of money, it's a myth that government departments are struggling for money. Most of the people I know who work for government normally confirm my thoughts in conversations.

They must be doing something fundamentally wrong to be in this situation. Is there a public sector worker that can counter this argument (genuine question).

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Haven't they had their money but blew it all on pay rises? Oh the irony!

God forbid a nurse should get paid more than £16k!!!

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God forbid a nurse should get paid more than £16k!!!

The pay system is graded, pointless taking the bottom pay scale and using it as a comparison;

NHS Nurses Pay

I could retort with, "God forbid a nurse should get paid more than £51k!!!"

Like any other profession, you start at the bottom and work your way up. Just because they are on £16k doesn't give them the right to demand £25k after one years experience.

Off to work.

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The thing is, if people want these services they must pay for them.

Money doesnt grow on trees, the Government cannot just keep putting in its own money while the public contribute nothing.

We hear it time and time again from the public, they complain about councils, or the NHS but then dont want to pay anthing for them.

Scrap the NHS and if your ill then pay for it. If you can't then thats tough luck for smoking 40 a day, eating junk food and not looking after yourself properly. Why should we have to pay taxes for trash to get better ?

If you stand outside most hospitals, you'll see people standing there on crutches, drip attached their arm and yet they still stand there smoking away. Complete idiots.

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If we are going to get the right balance of Public Service Workers to Public workers then we just cannot waste money on Doctors and Nurses.

We need far more managers who can keep an eagle eye on how the money is spent.

I suppose the perfect balance would be one public service worker for every worker in private enterprises but that is way off at the moment.

We dont have to look hard to see that the Government are far better at assigning money to create jobs than the public. In fact if the public had their way, they would spend the money on Food and Putting shoes on the children, and giving them money to travel on buses when they could easily walk the 7miles to school.

The sooner people realise that they just do not have the insight and the skills to spend their own money the better off we will all be. Taxes in the Uk are the lowest in Europe, this has to change, and we also need to offshore many more top high paid jobs to China and Russia, and India as those people are the real electorate. It was enouraging to see Brother Gordon declare this in his budget speech.

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Haven't they had their money but blew it all on pay rises? Oh the irony!

Yes, as they and every other sector were/are chasing overvalued property prices.

Just imagine if house prices were just two thirds what they are now, we wouldn't have half as many problems,

Everything is struggling due to overvalued properties.

It's time it reversed.

My prediction is for sustained falls after a failed spring bounce, and oh yes it will fail!!

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The pay system is graded, pointless taking the bottom pay scale and using it as a comparison;

NHS Nurses Pay

I could retort with, "God forbid a nurse should get paid more than £51k!!!"

Like any other profession, you start at the bottom and work your way up. Just because they are on £16k doesn't give them the right to demand £25k after one years experience.

Off to work.

Thanks for the out of date pay scales. Things have moved on since then. The NHS has moved over to the new Agenda for Change pay & conditions.

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The thing is, if people want these services they must pay for them.

Money doesnt grow on trees, the Government cannot just keep putting in its own money while the public contribute nothing.

We hear it time and time again from the public, they complain about councils, or the NHS but then dont want to pay anthing for them.

Are you brain dead? We are paying more in tax than at any point in history AND the government have had to borrow, how much more money do you need????

As for the nurse situation, the problem in too many managers etc, when it comes to the nurses, the job still has to be done and all it will mean is those left behind will be doing sh1t loads of overtime, it won;t save any money!

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The thing is, if people want these services they must pay for them.

Money doesnt grow on trees, the Government cannot just keep putting in its own money while the public contribute nothing.

We hear it time and time again from the public, they complain about councils, or the NHS but then dont want to pay anthing for them.

How is government money not public money?

They robbed it from the public in the first place. (And yes I do mean robbery. If they spend it wisely and efficiently then that is taxation... it they take the money via stealth and then squander it then that s robbery).

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If we abolish the NHS we can switch over to the US system and pay for medical insurance. Currently a middle aged couple with no children pay about $750 a month for HMO (Health Maintenance Organization) coverage. The services are excellent and you only pay a $10 per visit co-pay and about $6 per prescription. But, $750 per month is quite a lot of money to come up with when average incomes per household in the US is around $40k-$50k.

The problem in the UK is that we have more than we can afford and borrow the difference. That is why we have 1.2 Trillion of personal debt. And that debt is about to get more expensive as Japan raises the rates as they are entitled to as most of it is their hard earned money.

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Guest struthitsruth

If we abolish the NHS we can switch over to the US system and pay for medical insurance.

I think you will find that the NHS is being quietly abolished for us, as in NHS dentists

"Open wide . . . this new drill will hurt"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8122-2089458,00.html

and

"500,000 children set to lose NHS dental treatment"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2092584,00.html

NHS dentists registration ends on 31st March, the government was just too embarrassed about how few registrations there are - so they're no longer going to be recorded. You just ring up your local NHS dentist as and when you want an appointment, . . . . . . apparently !

This looks like costing the average 2.4 children family around £400-500 a year with Denplan or insurance of that type

No mention of this come budget time though, eh ??

Here's a good thread on the details of the new dentists' contracts, by the way

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=152290

Enjoy !

;)

Edited by struthitsruth

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These guys are reposnsible for budgets and maintaining sound finances, why aren't they getting their ar*ses kisked?

Because they're government employees, and therefore get rewarded for failure: if they run out of money this year, they can demand the government give them more money next year... whereas if they save money this year, they'll get less next year.

Which is precisely why anything the government touches turns to crap.

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If we are going to get the right balance of Public Service Workers to Public workers then we just cannot waste money on Doctors and Nurses.

We need far more managers who can keep an eagle eye on how the money is spent.

I suppose the perfect balance would be one public service worker for every worker in private enterprises but that is way off at the moment.

We dont have to look hard to see that the Government are far better at assigning money to create jobs than the public. In fact if the public had their way, they would spend the money on Food and Putting shoes on the children, and giving them money to travel on buses when they could easily walk the 7miles to school.

The sooner people realise that they just do not have the insight and the skills to spend their own money the better off we will all be. Taxes in the Uk are the lowest in Europe, this has to change, and we also need to offshore many more top high paid jobs to China and Russia, and India as those people are the real electorate. It was enouraging to see Brother Gordon declare this in his budget speech.

Really had to laugh at the bold bit. They are clearly doing a great job in managing budgets and their staff!

:lol:

Thanks for the out of date pay scales. Things have moved on since then. The NHS has moved over to the new Agenda for Change pay & conditions.

Apologies, I was in a rush and didn't research that too much.

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Thanks for the out of date pay scales. Things have moved on since then. The NHS has moved over to the new Agenda for Change pay & conditions.

The gradings may have changed to bandings, and the figures may be slightly different, but I woudn't say things have changed for the better! I work for the NHS and following assimilation to the new Agenda for Change terms and conditions, have now been offered 15% less than I am actually already earning (and a huge number of colleagues are in the same position)! Of course, I won't actually be paid any less (protected pay), just won't get a pay rise until everybody else catches up with me ... in about 2012!!!

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Money doesnt grow on trees, the Government cannot just keep putting in its own money while the public contribute nothing.

I've heard some pretty stupid things on this board, but that takes the biscuit.

The government does not have any of its 'own money'. They only have 'public taxpayers money'.

Do you think they are out driving taxis after hours to pay for the NHS?

Where the hell do you think it comes from?

Am I missing some kind of irony here or are you serious?

Edited by Flick

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Last years NHS consultant contacts for doctors were enormously expensive for NHS Trusts.

The current Agenda for Change exercise for all other staff means that many people have been banded lower than their present grades, but pay protection means that they will retain their current salary (for 7 years I think) before reverting to actual scale, which should have caught up by then. This obviously equates to real world loss of earnings, though.

However, many other staff groups have done very well, many extraordinarily well. Certain professions had their own pay review bodies where earnings for top grade professionals were capped at maybe £40-50,000. The Agenda for Change bands run up to around £90000, so if you can tick the right boxes in your assessment you can be on to a winner. In some professions, everyone has been effectively bumped a grade in money terms. Another point is that inner London weighting allowance (ie city cost of living weighting) has gone up from under £3000 to 20% of salary, capped at a max of £5500, so anyone earning over £27500 automatically gets a big pay hike, even if on pay protection. Increases (to a max of 33 days for 10 years service) in annual leave entitlement will have an impact on manning.

In the short term, therefore, Trust budgets have rocketed. Some of this is funded from central Government, ie our taxes - some the Trusts have to find. This is all before taking into account increased costs in drug bills, technology etc, as well as having to treat a rising demographic of older patients who cost more to treat long term.

On top of this, many NHS Trusts are going balls out for Foundation Status, which gives them more freedom to control their direction. This includes freedom to borrow from financial institutions, and to sell assets such as land. Despite this, they will actually be monitored more closely than those Trusts not having Foundation Status. Nearly all NHS Trusts seem to be effectively in the red, but legally must break even every year. The way this is achieved, is to bring money forward from the next year. The next year therefore begins with a huge deficit, but technically it can be said that the Trust has not closed a year with a deficit.

In order to look squeaky clean for Foundation status, the books will have to balance. This will be achieved by cutting agency staff, not filling essential posts, and eventually redundancies. Services will undoubtedly suffer.

TLM

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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