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FrozenOut

Building Your Own Place

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After some unblinkered opinions here (please try and see the positives as well as negatives - I'm not asking for a flaming!)

Basically I'm a single bloke 31, still at home and saving half my wages each month and have been since around 1998 I earn approx twice the average salary and live in the south east - with these facts inmind, I'm sure my fellow south easterns would agree a 2 bed flat pushing myself to more then 4 times my income at the peak of a bubble is about all I can afford.

My parents have asked me if I would consider a joint investment with them to build, for want of a better expression an annex for me to live in, this would be a seperate building on their land (do not worry about how the planning is going to work - assume by hook and crook that it's taken care of ;) )

The annex can be built basically to my specification, and I will need to put down approx £35k from my savings (with investments and savings plans this is about half of what I have in financial assets)

Here is the company that is being tasked with the drawing up of plans

Heritage Website

The obvious downside to this is I'll not be totally free of my parents, as essentially they will be my new neighbours, but it will give me an independant life mortgage free.

Obviously I'd prefer to be living my own life completely away from the family home, but as sad as it seems I don't think I will get my chance until I'm 33-35 years of age, thanks to Gormless Clown and Phoney Bliar.

Please please try and see positives and not just attack, as human nature often dictates, the negatives of this situation.

To sum up, I have no chance presently and my parents are offering me an opportunity but it's at a cost and its a fare wack of the money I currently have saved for a deposit on a house of my own away from them.

I get on very well with my folks, I treat their home and them with respect and we all get on well, but with the collapse of my relationship this month they can see a difficult situation has now become impossible in regards to home ownership.

Thanks all.

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Sounds like a pretty good plan - how would ownership of the subsequent property work if it was to be sold separately to the main house? Would it be a separate property with its own deeds with ownership split 50/50 between yourself (for funding building) and your parents (for supplying the land)?

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Sounds like a pretty good plan - how would ownership of the subsequent property work if it was to be sold separately to the main house? Would it be a separate property with its own deeds with ownership split 50/50 between yourself (for funding building) and your parents (for supplying the land)?

Basically I will own half the property as per my funding, they have said (within reason) if I wish to leave they will return my investment (they have other investments on the cards for the medium term) enabling me to buy again elsewhere.

The house will be part of their estate, they can not sell it if I am living in it (because of the capital I have put in)

I can't really explain the legal technicalities of how the deeds will work because I'm not even sure I understand myself, all I can tell you is that I will have a garage, my own driveway, electric and water supplies - in every essence it will be a seperate house, but will be part of my parents estate :blink: Sorry, about being vague it's been alot to take in and the proposition has only been on the table a few days.

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Obviously this is not a hpc question - because you're building on land that doesn't have to be bought. Though I suppose the costs would be lower if there was an hpc.

Your parents seem to want you around - indeed by the sounds of it they want you to make a commitment to staying for the foreseeable future. At the moment you are happy staying, but what about in five years time? If you want to move out, you've commited money - and you've made your parents home larger. How would your parents feel with an empty annexe? Would you or they be happy renting it out?

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FrozenOut, I hear you!

I am thinking of the exact same thing. My parents have a fairly large (~1 acre) garden in which there is a very suitable building plot on the far side. It is not too big (22m x 30m), but has direct access to the main road. They have agreed to consider me building a 3 bed, 1200sq ft house there, which we could do since we have experience in construction. What are your building costs? I've heard figures of £50 per sq ft, but I have no idea.

In truth though, I don't think it will ever happen since the area is a village in greenbelt land with severe planning restrictions (in order to keep the high housing costs even higher). Plus the neighbours would lodge objections for sure.

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Basically I will own half the property as per my funding, they have said (within reason) if I wish to leave they will return my investment (they have other investments on the cards for the medium term) enabling me to buy again elsewhere.

The house will be part of their estate, they can not sell it if I am living in it (because of the capital I have put in)

I can't really explain the legal technicalities of how the deeds will work because I'm not even sure I understand myself, all I can tell you is that I will have a garage, my own driveway, electric and water supplies - in every essence it will be a seperate house, but will be part of my parents estate :blink: Sorry, about being vague it's been alot to take in and the proposition has only been on the table a few days.

When you apply for planning you may have a problem if it's for a separate dwelling. An extension should be no problem. I've come up against this myself and so have friends of mine. I tried this with a farm house, splitting it in two and adding an extension, making two dwellings. No chance!

Trust me on this one, it really does piss on your parade.

FrozenOut, I hear you!

I am thinking of the exact same thing. My parents have a fairly large (~1 acre) garden in which there is a very suitable building plot on the far side. It is not too big (22m x 30m), but has direct access to the main road. They have agreed to consider me building a 3 bed, 1200sq ft house there, which we could do since we have experience in construction. What are your building costs? I've heard figures of £50 per sq ft, but I have no idea.

In truth though, I don't think it will ever happen since the area is a village in greenbelt land with severe planning restrictions (in order to keep the high housing costs even higher). Plus the neighbours would lodge objections for sure.

Is the garden classed as a garden by the planners or is it agricultural? If it's the garden you have a very good case because it is already residential.

As the law stands you can put a mobile home in the garden, that can be moved in its entirety and is no longer than 30 feet,( I think, though it could be 28 feet) and you don't need planning for this.

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When you apply for planning you may have a problem if it's for a separate dwelling. An extension should be no problem. I've come up against this myself and so have friends of mine. I tried this with a farm house, splitting it in two and adding an extension, making two dwellings. No chance!

Trust me on this one, it really does piss on your parade.

Is the garden classed as a garden by the planners or is it agricultural? If it's the garden you have a very good case because it is already residential.

As the law stands you can put a mobile home in the garden, that can be moved in its entirety and is no longer than 30 feet,( I think, though it could be 28 feet) and you don't need planning for this.

Thanks all for your input.

To address this point first, Obviously we are not submitting plans for a new dwelling, as you say - we will have no chance, I don't want to add any kind of "smug" overtone to my own thread but HOW planning is to be acheived at this stage I can't offer any kind of comment, hence why I said assume the planning is not the issue here.

I guess the issue here is about living on your parents land and parting with the money I've saved many many long years for and I guess since I'm a man of some pride the attached stigma (if any).

Tonification, I'm still waiting for approximate figures but they have given me an initial indication I will need to put down £35k - when I have more helpful figures I'll be sure to PM you, if you are interested.

Regards all.

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Is the garden classed as a garden by the planners or is it agricultural? If it's the garden you have a very good case because it is already residential.

As the law stands you can put a mobile home in the garden, that can be moved in its entirety and is no longer than 30 feet,( I think, though it could be 28 feet) and you don't need planning for this.

Its garden, but we have previously built a brick barn in a different part of it.

I know of friends in the village who have been denied permission to build a dwelling (a "don't even bother asking" type denial, rather than a technicality type denial) on land which was neither garden nor agricultural, I suppose it was ex-pasture or parkland.

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By building a house without buying land, you are divorcing yourself from the whole house price bubble. It is NOT a house price bubble we are seeing, but a land price bubble. The cost of land with planning permission is silly at the moment.

As an idea, it is great if you don't mind living so close to the old folks, but if you are still living with them then it is probably not too much of a problem.

In terms of time scale, I would try and get everything sorted including planning so that you can start building May 2007. That way you are building during the summer and should get the structure waterproof before the Autumn.

The cost is up to you, but it is better to buy everything as part of the construction, including kitchens, appliances, bathroom, painting, decorating etc if you can afford it. Then you can claim back the VAT.

If I were in your position I would have the house made independant with independant deeds, possibly as a leasehold with your parents being the freeholder. That way they don't loose the land. This is a fantastic opportunity to get the house you want.

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which was neither garden nor agricultural, I suppose it was ex-pasture or parkland.

Well that's why then!

Have you not noticed all the big gardens on the market offered as building plots? It's all about material change of use.

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If the plot of land is within the development boundary of the village you may have a reasonable chance. However sneaky planners have a habit of cutting across gardens to restrict expansion. Check with your local planning dept where the boundaries are.

It may well be worth employing a planning consultant.

There is a good article on gaining pp in the March issue of Homebuilding & Renovating written by Ken Dijksman, an ex local authority planning officer who it seems is very much on 'our' side over the artificial shortage of land, restrictive planning and nimby attitudes causing so much grief. He would be a good start to see if planning was viable for you plot, contact through dijksman@msn.com. I am not connected with him in any way but like reading his articles.

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You say you are on double the average salary?.

Is that average in private enterprise or is it the much higher average such as working for the local council ?.

Anyway, you must be on around 50k per year.

If you are considering building without permission, then stop right there!!!.

It is illegal, and they will make you knock it down.

Go to the planners and ask them to explain the County Structure Plan, they all have one its the law.

Then hire a planning consultant, they are worth their weight in gold.

Dont waste money on drawings at this stage, get the Planning Consultant to put in an outline application.

If you are on 50k, then I would not invest your money in this project for the following reasons.

1. When you parents go wrinkly and require nappy changes, you will be required by law to look after them and fund it out of your own pocket. Not the case if you live away somewhere else.

2. Your chances of starting a new relationship will become very grim living in your parents garden.

3. You are a young Man, you have your life ahead of you. Love your parents for sure, but its natural to leave the nest, its what nature intended. It is in our genes to disagree with everything our parents say or do.

4. You are tying your finances up with your parents, you need to be independent ready for the next love of your life, and it will come, that is for sure.

Good Luck Whatever you decide.

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After some unblinkered opinions here (please try and see the positives as well as negatives - I'm not asking for a flaming!)

Basically I'm a single bloke 31, still at home and saving half my wages each month and have been since around 1998 I earn approx twice the average salary and live in the south east - with these facts inmind, I'm sure my fellow south easterns would agree a 2 bed flat pushing myself to more then 4 times my income at the peak of a bubble is about all I can afford.

My parents have asked me if I would consider a joint investment with them to build, for want of a better expression an annex for me to live in, this would be a seperate building on their land (do not worry about how the planning is going to work - assume by hook and crook that it's taken care of ;) )

The annex can be built basically to my specification, and I will need to put down approx £35k from my savings (with investments and savings plans this is about half of what I have in financial assets)

Here is the company that is being tasked with the drawing up of plans

Heritage Website

The obvious downside to this is I'll not be totally free of my parents, as essentially they will be my new neighbours, but it will give me an independant life mortgage free.

Obviously I'd prefer to be living my own life completely away from the family home, but as sad as it seems I don't think I will get my chance until I'm 33-35 years of age, thanks to Gormless Clown and Phoney Bliar.

Please please try and see positives and not just attack, as human nature often dictates, the negatives of this situation.

To sum up, I have no chance presently and my parents are offering me an opportunity but it's at a cost and its a fare wack of the money I currently have saved for a deposit on a house of my own away from them.

I get on very well with my folks, I treat their home and them with respect and we all get on well, but with the collapse of my relationship this month they can see a difficult situation has now become impossible in regards to home ownership.

Thanks all.

Why are you expecting to be 'flamed'? It all sounds fairly reasonable to me as long as you dont mind living so close to your old folks.

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After some unblinkered opinions here (please try and see the positives as well as negatives - I'm not asking for a flaming!)

Basically I'm a single bloke 31, still at home and saving half my wages each month and have been since around 1998 I earn approx twice the average salary and live in the south east - with these facts inmind, I'm sure my fellow south easterns would agree a 2 bed flat pushing myself to more then 4 times my income at the peak of a bubble is about all I can afford.

My parents have asked me if I would consider a joint investment with them to build, for want of a better expression an annex for me to live in, this would be a seperate building on their land (do not worry about how the planning is going to work - assume by hook and crook that it's taken care of ;) )

The annex can be built basically to my specification, and I will need to put down approx £35k from my savings (with investments and savings plans this is about half of what I have in financial assets)

Here is the company that is being tasked with the drawing up of plans

Heritage Website

The obvious downside to this is I'll not be totally free of my parents, as essentially they will be my new neighbours, but it will give me an independant life mortgage free.

Obviously I'd prefer to be living my own life completely away from the family home, but as sad as it seems I don't think I will get my chance until I'm 33-35 years of age, thanks to Gormless Clown and Phoney Bliar.

Please please try and see positives and not just attack, as human nature often dictates, the negatives of this situation.

To sum up, I have no chance presently and my parents are offering me an opportunity but it's at a cost and its a fare wack of the money I currently have saved for a deposit on a house of my own away from them.

I get on very well with my folks, I treat their home and them with respect and we all get on well, but with the collapse of my relationship this month they can see a difficult situation has now become impossible in regards to home ownership.

Thanks all.

FrozenOut, just do it. ITS MY DREAM building a house. You have been given the opportunity. WOW :D

Shaker is right. There is absolutely nothing to flame here, although its clear from the tone of your post that you are doing it tough at the moment with your relationship breaking down - big cyber hug for FrozenOut.

In fact building a house in your parents backyard sounds like a fine way have a project and be close to people who love you (which you probably need at the moment, even if they might get on your nerves from time to time), particularly since as you say you aren't in a position to buy elsewhere but have a substantial amount of money and you will have some privacy. It also gives you something creative and new in your life. And since you aren't paying bubble land prices, what is the problem from a housing crash perspective? The only thing I would consider is, is it going to be built in such a way that at some stage when someone new comes along (I know you probably can't even contemplate that at the moment but it will happen) you can either realise the asset and move on or have enough privacy? Or if not, can it be redesigned a little to incorporate a big hedge??? Sorry. Has to be asked. Apart from that, JUST GO FOR IT.

Good luck with everything.

EDIT:

And even if there were a problem from a housing crash perspective. Its still your money, your life, your choices - however it also sounds like a very prudent choice in this case.

Edited by Elizabeth

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By building a house without buying land, you are divorcing yourself from the whole house price bubble. It is NOT a house price bubble we are seeing, but a land price bubble. The cost of land with planning permission is silly at the moment.

Completely spot-on.

It's worth reading Fred Harrison's "Boom Bust: House Prices, Banking and the Depression of 2010"

He explains quite well the relationship between house prices, land prices and the effects of speculation.

I don't believe living next door to parents is all bad, if you have kids you will have a tremendous support structure. Also handy for washing, sunday meals etc while you're single.

But you still need to have your own space.

I'd go for it.

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Hi FrozenOut

As everyone else has said, if it works for you then it sounds like a good idea.

Just a couple of points on some of the replies - if you're building an annexe / extension to your parent's house then you won't be able to claim any VAT back (as the once-only refund only applies to new houses, I think). On estimating your costs, there's a couple of definitive books available which I believe are the 'de facto' sources of information used by most self-builders. Obviously, I'm not going to plug them directly, but a quick Google or Amazon using the keywords 'housebuilder' and 'bible' should quickly get you to a book that is very useful for costings.

One other thing. You mentioned the greenbelt. I've noticed that many people make assumptions about where the greenbelt actually is. Some of the green and pleasant land surprisingly isn't. As another poster mentioned, make sure you've looked at the council's Local Plan which defines these things accurately as well as areas zoned for development (or not). I found just talking through my ideas with a planner before doing anything official made getting full planning permission for an extension to my last house (overlooking a SSSI) was pretty straightforward.

Anyway, best of luck.

LL

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If you want to spend your entire life keeping the Missus and the Mother from wringing each others necks then you wont live in the back garden.

Rent, save some more money, then when the time is right hit the market.

Families, and business is not a good recipe for anything other than a disaster.

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i built my own plaice once.

i made some fins from some cling film and matches. i used glitter for scales. it was pretty sweet. i gave the whole thing a coat of hammerite and set it to work as a carp decoy. for complete detail i even supplied the model fish an underwater record player that was loaded with early 80s hits. such as adam and the ants. blondie and bubbles. worked a treat and i won first prize and the carp fair. which was a hamper.

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Hi FrozenOut

As everyone else has said, if it works for you then it sounds like a good idea.

Just a couple of points on some of the replies - if you're building an annexe / extension to your parent's house then you won't be able to claim any VAT back (as the once-only refund only applies to new houses, I think).

Good catch LL. Make sure its entirely detached by the right amount to slip under the wire in terms of VAT (if yo want you can add an awning / walkway later!). Otherwise, I'm not sure what your spending but it will be 17.5% more than you need to. Love timber frame BTW (although I love aussie houses with HUGE windows and fabo outside areas!!!)

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My brother did just that.

Built a 4 bed detached in my parents land, just behind their house.

Separate driveway, utilities etc.

Lived there for less than a year before getting cheesed off with it and moving to the Netherlands....

If you can stand living that close to your parents then go for it.... but I personally would avoid financial arrangements with family.

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Yeah, so would I if our weather wasn't always shi...

:lol::lol::lol:

Have you thought of emmigrating? You'd find the landed gentry in Australia just as offensive... and a little less manored! But you could have great windows and a fab outdoor area.

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[...]

this would be a seperate building on their land (do not worry about how the planning is going to work - assume by hook and crook that it's taken care of ;) )

[...]

Honest question: Do your parents have sympathetic contacts on the local council?

You may answer "no comment" if you like.

frugalista

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Go for it. Some people blow £35k or more on flash cars.

And your parents can buy you out, so no need to feel trapped financially or otherwise.

If the place has its own driveway and a seperate little garden area then I don't see why it wouldn't feel like your own place.

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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