delboypass Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) UKs Problems This is a big problem for the UK. Where these layabouts do nothing all day and sit back and cream off benefits from taxes provided by the middle class. There really needs to be a huge injection of radical makeover into UK's benefit system. The UK should only support 2 children at maximum. Should not automatically give houses to single mums. This is becoming a disease. Great so UK gets a population, but are these the type of people we want breeding whilst hte educated middle class cant afford to have children?? Quick cutting from side bar BRITAIN is plagued by scroungers who cost taxpayers millions. Ellen Morris, of Barrowford, Lancs, nets £28,000 a year in benefits, but last month moaned she needed a bigger council home for her 13 kids. Workshy John Walker, of Caerphilly, South Wales, landed taxpayers with a £2.5million bill after having 11 kids by eight women — all on benefits. And 20-year-old “Slobfather” Keith Macdonald, of Washington, Tyne and Wear, has fathered six children — who will eventually cost taxpayers more than £1.1million Edited March 15, 2006 by delboypass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 High lighting exceptional cases at the fring of the distribution in any matter is a sure way to throw the baby out with the bath water. Man cant you see the Bankers, Top capitalists are doing all they can to divide people and set our thoughts against one another by groups. All to divert public debate from convergeing on the issues of the fallacy of this debt system! Our rulers are trying to stop the masses uniting in thier thoughts and ideas with regard to where the fundamental problems are....in our money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Europa Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 UKs Problems This is a big problem for the UK. Where these layabouts do nothing all day and sit back and cream off benefits from taxes provided by the middle class. Quite agree. We are being outbred by vermin. Time to give eugenics another try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smell the Fear Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Quite agree. We are being outbred by vermin. Time to give eugenics another try? There are some vile views on this forum. What makes you think your genes are so great? Do you think all children born to poor families are inferior and incapable of contributing to society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 He's sick of this country? HE?!? How about the rest of us who have to fund such scum, I agree, he can live his life as he wishes... just don't expect us to pay. No wonder the country is truning to $hit if increasing numbers of jobless wonders have attitudes like him :angry: :angry: :angry: I'm frickin sick of this country, me and my 50% marginal tax contributions are going elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketterinboy Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Agreed, the goverment have no idea what the hard working young people have to deal with and its time for layabouts either to contribute decently to society and stop claiming off our hard work! Sicking sight this country has become, over indulgent, over populated and over sensitive!!!!!! I give it no more that 5 more years, if no change with the stinking attitude of society and the terriably run goverment that punishes hard work individuals.....il be either leaving for pastures new or joining the layabouts down wetherspoons pubs!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Man cant you see the Bankers, Top capitalists are doing all they can to divide people and set our thoughts against one another by groups. That old refrain, the banks are evil therefore I'll rip off the state?!? Our benefits system is perverse, no amount of misdirection can change that. The evil bankers do actually work and contribute something to our country, even if they avoid some tax by paying bonuses with bails of hay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realistbear Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 My fear is that the only thing that has kept this country from being a third rate backwater has been North Sea Oil wealth and "services". Trouble is that it has all been squandered on non-productive house prices and the overseas debt that has been the result. This many years on from the start of the North Sea Oil bonanza what do we have to show for it? 1. Highest House prices in the world (based on earnings multiples) 2. FTBs who can't afford a place to live 3. Almost non-existent manufacturing base 4. Off-shored IT and easily transferred service industry 5. 1.2 Trillion pounds of debt. 6. Gordon Brown's "miracle economy" and the NuLabour for a NuBritain campaign. Once the HPI bubble bursts the debt will remain.......Mervyn King said as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smell the Fear Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 That old refrain, the banks are evil therefore I'll rip off the state?!? Our benefits system is perverse, no amount of misdirection can change that. The evil bankers do actually work and contribute something to our country, even if they avoid some tax by paying bonuses with bails of hay. I think you are completely missing his point. His point is that a debt based money system is fundamentally flawed and is a cause of most of our problems. By blaming the poor for your problems you are distracted from the real problem. The reason you are pissed off is that you can't afford a home you are happy to live in. The reason houses are so expensive is that banks have unleashed a tidal wave of cheap credit across the globe driving asset prices to such ridiculous levels that only a fool would get involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hampton Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 i have to deal with many people like this and it does shock me the numbers of people who have no desire to do anything and really do not seem to be able to get on and have a productive life and are quite happy to break the law and shout as loudly as possible when things don't go their way with everything someone elses fault or they have absolutely no clue or undertsanding how they got into their situations, i.e. in Court for affray, benefit cheating, in Court for benefiting from crime etc etc, or massive debt. But they still think think they are empowered and every one will do as they say. Its as if they think someone else is going to sort all their problems out for them, perhaps that has always been the case in the past, but as adults you must get on wth your own life ands accept the consequence of your actions. when i speak to people who are on the border of being repossessed and explain the general process many become quite indignant and say things like 'they are not getting in to my house', 'i'll have the police on them' as if again they are in control or empowered, and basicaly they don't beleive me and and flout the court judgements not taking things seriously and either they will be alright and it won't happen or better still 'i'll get onto the council and get a council house' as if it is a right walk around town centres like Kings Lynn and Peterborough, Royston, Harlow etc just what are people doing milling about? there are always going to be elements like this in every town, it just shocks me to see how many, folks come from families that have never worked with everything coming from the state with state workers interfering with almost every aspect of these folks lives, how are the kids suppossed to get on and find theri place?? i could go on longer but you get the picture MH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) By blaming the poor for your problems you are distracted from the real problem. No, I'm pissed off that the system gives people the incentive not to work and to have 14 kids. In one sense the chap is simply taking advantage of the mechanism, maybe we are the stupid one's? After all, he is moaning not about having a house but simply not having a big enough one. As for your wider ideological point, they've tried other systems in various other countries, it didn't work out. Edited March 15, 2006 by BuyingBear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) That old refrain, the banks are evil therefore I'll rip off the state?!? Our benefits system is perverse, no amount of misdirection can change that. The evil bankers do actually work and contribute something to our country, even if they avoid some tax by paying bonuses with bails of hay. SMF above is right. We have lots of varied problems but is it not appropriate to PRIORITISE our effort given the obviousness that our effort is finite and must be divided. Adress the fundamentals! Every one from some one doing DIY, planning a generational spanning project knows from experience which we have amasses a lot of (read more history) that without sound fundamentals it none of it can work. We can achive what ever we want but the good people need to get grass root sctivisum toward redressing the balance of power from governement and big coporations back to family business. we need to to tackle the entertainment industries mental hollowing of our youth into mindless serfs. We need to tackle the coruption, in all our quaters. Get the fundamentals right! And dont let big money sway the ajenda for our MPs we must demand of our MPs. We must demand the debat in our educations. And we must all share the good knowledge and information. Edited March 15, 2006 by sp1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 SMF above is right. We have lots of varied problems but is it not appropriate to PRIORITISE our effort given the obviousness that our effort is finite and must be divided. Adress the fundamentals! Watching half my pay dissappear to fund such people is pretty fundamental! In essense you're competing against your own confiscated money when it comes to the housing market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 No, I'm pissed off that the system gives people the incentive not to work and to have 14 kids. In one sense the chap is simply taking advantage of the mechanism, maybe we are the stupid one's? After all, he is moaning not about having a house but simply not having a biggest enough one. As for your wider ideological point, they've tried other systems in various other countries, it didn't work out. Oh really prove it! I dare you now go and look at EarlyAmerican Debt free congressional scripts () Gurnsey and the Muslim spanish empire that nad almost no inflation for 400 years and then hurderds of percent as soon as the Christian kings took over. Ifact just look and ENGLAND before 1624! Learn from the past! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Do you think all children born to poor families are inferior and incapable of contributing to society? These are not 'poor families'. These are dole-scum families where the parents spent most or all of their lives on the dole and the kids will probably spend all their lives scrounging off the productive taxpayers who can't afford to have kids when taxes eat up half their income and housing most of the other half. High lighting exceptional cases at the fring of the distribution in any matter is a sure way to throw the baby out with the bath water. So end the welfare state and let charities look after the truly needy. Charities have to ensure they don't give money to these 'exceptional cases' because otherwise their donations will dry up: governments, on the other hand, can continue to take money at gunpoint to give to anyone they choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) Ifact just look and ENGLAND before 1624! Learn from the past! We had the gold standard up until quite recently, and our problems only really began with the collapse of Bretton Woods and Nixon's closure of the gold window in 1971. However, this has very little to do with the benefits system. Edited March 15, 2006 by BuyingBear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malco Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 UKs Problems This is a big problem for the UK. Where these layabouts do nothing all day and sit back and cream off benefits from taxes provided by the middle class. There really needs to be a huge injection of radical makeover into UK's benefit system. The UK should only support 2 children at maximum. Should not automatically give houses to single mums. This is becoming a disease. Great so UK gets a population, but are these the type of people we want breeding whilst hte educated middle class cant afford to have children?? Quick cutting from side bar Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the plague of single mothers on bebefits grew under the Major government, and that it has fallen by 300,000 under this administration? We could do with some confirmation of this. These people who pump out children at taxpayers' expense have been a problem since the generous benefits system began back in the 1970s. I remember my sister (who is a doctor) complaining about the wasters breeding at taxpayers' expense back in the 1970s. Until they tighten up the benefits system there will always be folk who take the p1ss. What do you expect? In time I expect compulsory sterilisation will come back. Society gets nasty when it runs short of energy resources, and the "useless feeders" (to quote Kissinger) queue up. Be glad you are not at the bottom of the heap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Watching half my pay dissappear to fund such people is pretty fundamental! In essense you're competing against your own confiscated money when it comes to the housing market. Half your money is paying the interest on previous yearsa accumilated interest to my knowledge none or little of it funds current or future expenditure. Here is the CRUX there is no reason or law (that i know of) to stop government issuing debt free bonds that wont require interest paid to a priviate orginisation Do a search for "Money masters" on this forum and watch the video links. So you we are all being taxed way above what we need to keep the status quo. On your second point yes you are right that is the imoralitty of fractional reserve banking. please digest the Mystery of banking pdf in my first post on this thread. We need to work together not against: The Eleventh RoundOnce upon a time, in a small village in the Outback, people used to barter for all their transactions. On every market day, people walked around with chickens, eggs, hams and breads, and engaged in prolonged negotiations among themselves to exchange what they needed. At key periods of the year, like harvests or whenever someone's barn needed repairs after a big storm, people recalled the tradition of helping each other out that they had brought from the old country. They knew that if they had a problem some day, others would aid them in return. One market day, a stranger with shiny black shoes and an elegant white hat came by and observed the whole process with a sardonic smile. When he saw one farmer running around to corral the six chickens he wanted to exchange for a big ham, he could not refrain from laughing. "Poor people" he said. "So primitive." The farmer's wife overhead him and challenged the stranger, "Do you think you can do a better job handling chickens?" "Chickens, no," responded the stranger. "But there is a much better way to eliminate all that hassle." "Oh yes, how so?" asked the woman. "See that tree there?" the stranger replied. "Well, I will go wait there for one of you to bring me one large cowhide. Then have every family come visit me. I'll explain the better way." And so it happened. He took the cowhide, and cut perfect leather rounds in it, and put an elaborate and graceful little stamp on each round. Then he gave to each family ten rounds, and explained that each represented the value of one chicken. "Now you can trade and bargain with the rounds instead of the unwieldy chickens," he explained. It made sense. Everyone was impressed with the man with the shiny shoes and inspiring hat. "Oh, by the way," he added after every family had received their ten rounds, "in a year's time, I will come back and sit under the same tree. I want you each to bring me back 11 rounds. That 11th round is a token of appreciation for the technological improvement I just made possible in your lives." "But where will the 11th round come from?" asked the farmer with the six chickens. "You'll see," said the man with a reassuring smile. Analysis Assuming that the population and its annual production remain exactly the same during the next year, what do you think had to happen? Remember that the 11th round was never created. Therefore, bottom line, one of each 11 families will have to lose all its rounds, even if everyone managed his affairs well, in order to provide the 11th round to ten others. So when a storm threatened the crop of one of the families, people became less generous with their time to help bring it in before disaster struck. While it was much more convenient to exchange the rounds instead of the chickens on market days, the new game also had the unintended side effect of actively discouraging the spontaneous cooperation that was traditional in the village. Instead, the new money game was generating a systemic undertow of competition among all the participants. Commentary This is how today's money system pits participants in the economy against each other. The story isolates the role of interest - the eleventh round - as part of the money creation process, and its impact on the participants. When the bank creates money by providing you with your $100,000 mortgage, it creates only the principal. However, it expects you to bring back $200,000 over the next twenty years or so. If you don't, you'll lose your house. Your bank does not create the interest; it sends you out into the world to battle against everyone else to bring back the second $100,000. Since all the other banks do exactly the same thing, the system requires that some participants go bankrupt in order to provide you with this additional $100,000. To put it simply, when you pay back interest on your loan, you are using someone else's principal. In other words, the device used to create the scarcity indispensable for a bank-debt system to function involves having people compete for money that has not been created, and penalizes them with bankruptcy whenever they do not succeed. . . No wonder 'it is a tough world out there.' In reality, we do not live in a world of zero growth population, output or money supply (as in the story). In the real world, there is typically some growth over time in all these variables...This dynamic makes it much harder than in the Eleventh Round story to notice what is actually going on. With this dynamic view, the money system is like a treadmill that requires continuous economic growth, even if the real standard of living remains stagnant. . . . This need for perpetual growth is another fact of life that we tend to take for granted in modern societies, and one that we usually do not associate with either interest or our money system M.A. Nystrom commenting on the Future Of Money book by Bernard Lietar at www.bullnotbull.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Society gets nasty when it runs short of energy resources, and the "useless feeders" (to quote Kissinger) queue up. IMHO Britain is going to get very nasty indeed in the next 20-30 years, particularly as the oil wells run dry. Kids today may have something to lose, but kids 20 years from now paying 80% tax rates to subsidise the dole scum (be they teenage chavs or old farts on public sector pensions) won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Coinsidence that the london bombing happend on the day of a G& meeting and a big Anti debt demonstration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Half your money is paying the interest on previous yearsa accumilated interest to my knowledge none or little of it funds current or future expenditure. 99% of my salary is probably originated from various forms of debt originally, that's the system we run. That's why it's called an hallucination, it doesn't matter whether we're paid in sterling or seashells provided each method of exchange is percived to have value. It doesn't matter if you're paid in sterling, gold or seashells and whether the system is debt based, the question is whether half of your salary should be consfiscated and spent on somewhat dubious causes. Coinsidence that the london bombing happend on the day of a G& meeting and a big Anti debt demonstration? Either that or you're giving some attention seeking religious nutjobs too much credit. I think this thread should be moved to the OT forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Quite agree. We are being outbred by vermin. Time to give eugenics another try? comet is better. benefits are cool. whats wrong with them ? its just like a head honcho evading tax by clever legal accounting. cant see the difference. plus, are these people expected to tread like mice on a wheel for nothing more than the chance of renting one of TTRTTs crap holes for £750 pcm. naw. sod that. if your on less than 12k QUIT work and claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guy_Montag Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I think we need to rethink who gets sent on the B ark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurejon Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) I think that many people here will find that the so called generous benefits system is actually no such thing. I'm afraid a previous poster was correct, its all devised to divide and rule. Just like the Conservatives with their "Get on yer Bike" mantra we now hear it from the Labour Party. Fact, if you are a single guy like myself, paying high rate tax, out of work you will get 37quid a week. Where I live on the South Coast 37quid would get you from Brighton to London on the Train, and coming home you would have to get off at Croydon as your money would have run out. The high benefits are paid to a few individuals who are setup to wind up the population to be against benefits. Despite having contributed to the system with tax deductions of over a grand a month for years. Edited March 15, 2006 by laurejon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruisort7 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 99% of my salary is probably originated from various forms of debt originally, that's the system we run. That's why it's called an hallucination, it doesn't matter whether we're paid in sterling or seashells provided each method of exchange is percived to have value. It doesn't matter if you're paid in sterling, gold or seashells and whether the system is debt based, the question is whether half of your salary should be consfiscated and spent on somewhat dubious causes. Either that or you're giving some attention seeking religious nutjobs too much credit. I think this thread should be moved to the OT forum. Are you really paying half of every clam you earn to a dole scum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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