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Father Fred

A Problem With The Slagging Off Of Vis

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Surely if Nationwide / Halifax report higher prices it is likely to be an additional factor in putting up rates, and possibly precipitating a crash.

So when you slag off VIs for ramping the market, maybe they're not, maybe they're just calling it as they see it?

EDITED: for spelling only.

Edited by Father Fred

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Surely if Nationwide / Halifax report higher prices it is likely to be an additional factor in putting up rates, and possibly precipitating a crash.

So when you slag off VIs for remping the market, maybe they're not, maybe they're just calling it as they see it?

may be(may be not)

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Surely if Nationwide / Halifax report higher prices it is likely to be an additional factor in putting up rates, and possibly precipitating a crash.

So when you slag off VIs for ramping the market, maybe they're not, maybe they're just calling it as they see it?

EDITED: for spelling only.

Said this for a long time FF.

I think its not within the best interest of Nationwide/Halifax to talk the market up at this moment in time. Rightmove though? Speculative asking prices? I will slag them off for having a flawwed system that is not only OPEN to abuse but is BEING abused IMHO!

TB

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Guest muttley

Surely if Nationwide / Halifax report higher prices it is likely to be an additional factor in putting up rates, and possibly precipitating a crash.

So when you slag off VIs for ramping the market, maybe they're not, maybe they're just calling it as they see it?

EDITED: for spelling only.

The VIs will make more money from the non-defaulters than they will lose to the defaulters.

The financial institutions are going to make huge profits in the coming years from the hoards of mortgage slaves aboard HMS Property Ladder.

Still room for a few more.

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I spent this afternoon reading the thread http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=25561 and getting more and more exasperated.

I wonder just how many people actually bothered to read the damn report. It's quite BEARish for pete'ssake.

I quote:

"Affordability difficulties for first-time buyers, significant council and utility bill and weakening labour market conditions will constrain housing demand

"A number of factors, however, should constrain housing demand and prevent a significant, and sustained, acceleration in house price inflation in 2006. The continuing high level of house prices in relation to earnings will curb the ability of many potential first-time buyers to enter the market. Council tax and utility bills increases of well above inflation in 2006 will also put downward pressure on householders' finances. Additionally, the weakening in the labour market should temper housing demand.

"A number of factors, however, should constrain housing demand and prevent a significant, and sustained, acceleration in house price inflation in 2006. The continuing high level of house prices in relation to earnings will curb the ability of many potential first-time buyers to enter the market. Council tax and utility bills increases of well above inflation in 2006 will also put downward pressure on householders' finances. Additionally, the weakening in the labour market should temper housing demand."

I am getting fed up with the paranoids on this site who jump at every chance to slag of the "vested interests" and are blind to the fact that one of them is calling it like it is.

Redwing

ps. I also get pretty pxxxd off with some of the childish, sexist and ageist rantings of some posters. Please remember that you do nothing to further our case with such juvenilia.

So there!

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ps. I also get pretty pxxxd off with some of the childish, sexist and ageist rantings of some posters. Please remember that you do nothing to further our case with such juvenilia.

So there!

Here! Here!

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Actually it does the opposite. By having such a vocal lunatic fringe anyone finding this site gets the impression that it is far from unbiased and they probably go away and just get on with buying somewhere. Everything I have read here has just convinced me that we are doing the right thing (buying & selling) the only thing I am worried about is whether we have accepted too low an offer in our property and should pull out of the sale now and put the property back on in April when the weather is nicer.

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Surely if Nationwide / Halifax report higher prices it is likely to be an additional factor in putting up rates, and possibly precipitating a crash.

So when you slag off VIs for ramping the market, maybe they're not, maybe they're just calling it as they see it?

EDITED: for spelling only.

Fair point. What is disturbing however is that RightMove's average asking price (200,000) is so different to Nationwide's average price (160,000).

So if I make an offer on a property in the next month or so, I'll point this difference and ask for 20% off the asking price. :D

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I too thought the Nationwide / Halifax reports were unusually cautious. My reading is they know it's going to get bad and don't want to blow their credability buy predicting stupid stuff. If their inclination is to accentuate the positive, then suggesting things are going to be flat tells you something doesn't it? ;)

The spin came from the media who prosper mainly on telling their constituency what they want to hear. Of course once it goes tits up some of those constituencies will want to hear about how much a mess the Minister for Plenty has got us in.

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The spin came from the media who prosper mainly on telling their constituency what they want to hear. Of course once it goes tits up some of those constituencies will want to hear about how much a mess the Minister for Plenty has got us in.

true - the problem comes mainly from the media coverage of the reports, not from the reports themselves (at the moment)

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No-crash-yet-so-it-will-never-crash psychology is driving this latest (and last?)

wave of buying

Right. Interesting psychology goes on in dangerous situations. Research shows that gamblers (irrational investors) get a greater high from losing than from winning. Perverse as this may sound, its possible that the lemming-like collective conscience of the marketplace is actually getting a thrill from the certainty of big losses when the crash comes. I think this is why Buffett says that its often a good thing to observe the crowd and then do the opposite.

Whereever value is absent a crash is sure to follow.

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Guest Fiddlesticks

Actually it does the opposite. By having such a vocal lunatic fringe anyone finding this site gets the impression that it is far from unbiased and they probably go away and just get on with buying somewhere. Everything I have read here has just convinced me that we are doing the right thing (buying & selling) the only thing I am worried about is whether we have accepted too low an offer in our property and should pull out of the sale now and put the property back on in April when the weather is nicer.

I've said before that to the outsider this board looks like a lot of cranks in serious denial!

Furiously insisting that prices are falling when they're not undermines the credibility of the case completely. Printing out faked newspaper articles saying that the crash is upon us to leave around the office is ludicrous! It seems perfectly reasonable to say that prices are rising, but that they're overpriced and are likely to fall soon. Why not stick to that instead of paranoia, denial fabrication and witch-hunts?

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Never been a big fan of the term Vested Interest, I'd much prefer if everyone called them Commercial Interests instead, it sounds less paranoid and is something the layman can associate better with.

I too thought the Nationwide / Halifax reports were unusually cautious.

I concur, in particular I thought for once they both went out of their way to highlight that it's a slow market, that it shows the typical pattern of such and to talk down the prospects of it taking off again.

A cynic could argue they are doing this to influence the MPC but I think they see the writing on the wall too and I agree they may not want to lose face when it happens.

However I still involuntarily choke when I read the usual blurb about sound economics underpinning blah blah blah. And it is misrepresentative of them to focus on the national averages when they should be highlighting that some areas are dropping.

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A cynic could argue they are doing this to influence the MPC but I think they see the writing on the wall too and I agree they may not want to lose face when it happens.

However I still involuntarily choke when I read the usual blurb about sound economics underpinning blah blah blah. And it is misrepresentative of them to focus on the national averages when they should be highlighting that some areas are dropping.

My reading is that the last few reports have had a cautiously bearish tone. Their interpreation of the "sound economic underpinnings" is annoying but it is mainstream economic opinion. It's not only about house prices where there is delusion.

And yes, refusal to deal rationally with the evidence on price trends that we do have, however imperfect it is, does not do the site any good. Calm analysis is always better and more convincing to newcomers to the site.

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Guest Fiddlesticks

I have to say this thread is highly unusual, as its realistic and sensible - keep up the good work !

Boring though init !

Someone'll be along shortly to cause trouble.

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. Rightmove though? Speculative asking prices? I will slag them off for having a flawwed system that is not only OPEN to abuse but is BEING abused IMHO!

I've noted a lot of anti Rightmove posts on here (not suggesting this is one btw)

I was talking to a manager from RM the other day who pointed out that some people forget they are not an estate agent.

They are not concerned with the price the properties go at, but that people keep trying to sell properties.

An environment where people are trying to sell properties, but not really managing to shift them is a good scenario for them.

Not a VI in the same sense as EAs.

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I've noted a lot of anti Rightmove posts on here (not suggesting this is one btw)

I was talking to a manager from RM the other day who pointed out that some people forget they are not an estate agent.

They are not concerned with the price the properties go at, but that people keep trying to sell properties.

An environment where people are trying to sell properties, but not really managing to shift them is a good scenario for them.

Not a VI in the same sense as EAs.

Rightmove are OWNED by Estate Agents!!!!!!

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Guest

Printing out faked newspaper articles saying that the crash is upon us to leave around the office is ludicrous!

In this particular case, I strongly suspect that it exposed the bear in question's colleagues for what they are: Too willing to accept things without question or further research.

As for Rightmove, their data management has been exposed as an embarassment at best. It would be acceptable to have such inaccuracies if they weren't so keen to issue public statements on aggregate results taken from their database.

This web site has dealt with macro economics, finances, markets, history - a wealth of information, most often with cited sources of raw data, which you can "cut out and keep" for future reference, which I do.

Since the Big Event is a slow-mover, inevitably there is an element of 'chit chat' amongst the forum regulars. But then that's the fault of the Webmaster who shouldn't have created such a controversial, educational and entertaining forum. When I occasionally chance upon other unrelated web sites running Invision Powerboard, I've noticed a scarcity of posts in comparison.

As for the VIs, they are audited, and have reported minus numbers in their regional breakdown reports for certain areas of this country, even if they tend to compare and present figures in interesting ways for public consumption!

But, don't be too fast to slag people on here off, either.

I have to say this thread is highly unusual, as its realistic and sensible - keep up the good work !

Boring though init !

Maybe it would be less boring, then, if you'd tell us whether your boobs are real?

;):lol::ph34r:

Edit: Ah, you gotta do the jokes, have you SEEN the price of houses?

Edited by megaflop

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The financial institutions are going to make huge profits in the coming years from the hoards of mortgage slaves aboard HMS Property Ladder.

Yes, western slaves. Debt's their ball and chain.

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I've noted a lot of anti Rightmove posts on here (not suggesting this is one btw)

I was talking to a manager from RM the other day who pointed out that some people forget they are not an estate agent.

They are not concerned with the price the properties go at, but that people keep trying to sell properties.

An environment where people are trying to sell properties, but not really managing to shift them is a good scenario for them.

Not a VI in the same sense as EAs.

While they might not make any more money from high value property than they do from low value they fact is they still reply on a health housing market. If it's all doom and gloom then in fact they may well suffer more than estate agents because they people testing the market with no real intention of selling will be gone.

Rather than having less to lose than EA's in a depressed market in my opinion they have a whole lot more.

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While they might not make any more money from high value property than they do from low value they fact is they still reply on a health housing market. If it's all doom and gloom then in fact they may well suffer more than estate agents because they people testing the market with no real intention of selling will be gone.

Rather than having less to lose than EA's in a depressed market in my opinion they have a whole lot more.

As far as I'm aware RightMove charge a set fee for each office an EA has, rather than for the number of insertions into their dataBase.

Of course, on this site, facts which don't fit the HPC argument are usually ignored ;-)

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I've noted a lot of anti Rightmove posts on here (not suggesting this is one btw)

I was talking to a manager from RM the other day who pointed out that some people forget they are not an estate agent.

They are not concerned with the price the properties go at, but that people keep trying to sell properties.

An environment where people are trying to sell properties, but not really managing to shift them is a good scenario for them.

Not a VI in the same sense as EAs.

Priff, I have taken you comments on-board but there may be a few thing that you are unaware of. The Rightmove website is a compiilation of the EA's that are ALLOWED to be displayed on it. So its the EA's that put in the data - not the RM staff. This is why it is open to abuse. Rightmove are a mouth-piece for the EA's.

Is it not unlike Al-Jazeer being a mouthpiece for the terrorists?

I know this is a bit extreme but its a very similar thing. Where I have NO RESPECT whatsoever for RM is their report. Their data is purely that - DATA. Their OPINION however - ie HOUSES ARE FLYING OF THE SHELVES are both in-accurate and misleading. This company gets LOTS of airtime and column inches. They have a lot of weight in the marketplace. If they were a lot more in-tandem with the other indices then they would get more respect from me. As they make it clear in their statement. The RM Indice is unlike any other it tries to predict future trends. I.m.h.o its not a true reflection of property prices YET it gets all this airtime!!!!

The mainstream news should not report RM opinions as they are misleading (imho). By all means publish Nationwide/Halifax and ODPM/LR as these are based on FACTS not on SPECULATIVE 'future trends'.

TB

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Fair point. What is disturbing however is that RightMove's average asking price (200,000) is so different to Nationwide's average price (160,000).

So if I make an offer on a property in the next month or so, I'll point this difference and ask for 20% off the asking price. :D

Good Idea..and another tip is when you buy your new toilet just make sure its got plans for a house extension :D

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Fair point. What is disturbing however is that RightMove's average asking price (200,000) is so different to Nationwide's average price (160,000).

So if I make an offer on a property in the next month or so, I'll point this difference and ask for 20% off the asking price. :D

It totally depends on what the seller's expectation is. We put our property on at exactly what we wanted to achieve as we wanted a quick sale. As it transpired we may have put it on too low as we were litterally trampled in the rush and ended up accepting an offer over the asking price and we still have the other agent ringing up trying to go with a higher bidder.

if someone had come and offered 20% below we would have told them to get stuffed.

If we were not in a hurry we would have put it on much higher and waited and maybe taken an offer.

edit for typos

Edited by Given Up

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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