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I Have Met Someone Who Reads Hpc

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Today I met someone in the real world who reads stuff on HPC. He is:

25 years old.

Lives in Kent.

Is a tenant because he is priced out of the market in Kent.

Is a BTL landlord who owns 3 houses in Tyneside bought in 2002 and 2003.

Is selling his BTL houses because he thinks now is the time to cash in his investments.

Will buy a house for himself in Kent at the end of this year.

Thinks there will be a fall in house prices but only about 20% maximum in London and the south.

What does he do for a job? An HGV mechanic.

He told me that HPC is filled with sad IT types from London who think England ends at Watford. FTBs have almost been driven to extinction over the past 5 or so years, but smart (interpret this as I have no degree and work in a manual job) 20 something southerners had a trick up their sleeve. There's an old saying "if you can't beat them join them". Instead of endless ranting on about how greedy BTL landlords have priced them out of the market, they became BTL landlords themself buying property in cheaper areas like Tyneside before prices went crazy there. They got themselves onto the property ladder and now have an investment they can cash in and put towards a deposit on their own home where they want to live.

He thinks that in 3 years time the majority of 25 to 35 year old homeowners in London and the south will be construction workers, mechanics, and the self employed. Graduates and IT type will still be tenants.

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I would agree that there do seem to be an awful lot of miserable male IT and engineering types on here :P

Not sure about everything else he says.

Still, BTL in 2003, selling up now - sounds sensible. If he's made a profit, good on him.

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There are plenty north of Watford on here who can't afford a home in their own back yard, thanks to BTL like him.

I have no real beef with BTL in principle, I do have a beef with those that suggest everyone has the option to do what they do. They don't.

NDL

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An interesting idea - I guess its all about spotting an opportunity and grasping it - many on here - me included, appear to be very cautious types and "mis the moment" - someone told me that in the MOD they call this type of behaviour "analysis paralysis".

All that said, I still think that there will be some opportunities in the not too distant future as the bubble unwinds and those with a reasonable deposit and reasonably secure job should be able to find OK places - a bit longer to wait though IMO

Oh yeah - Engineers and IT types have always been grumpy buggers ! ;)

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Is a BTL landlord who owns 3 houses in Tyneside bought in 2002 and 2003.

He owns nothing he is just renting them from the lender.

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He owns nothing he is just renting them from the lender.

He also has to sell them. And if you read the Newcastle on Tyne thread or look at the local property auctions nothing but the top quaility stuff is selling.

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He thinks that in 3 years time the majority of 25 to 35 year old homeowners in London and the south will be construction workers, mechanics, and the self employed. Graduates and IT type will still be tenants.

Good, skilled graduates of all sorts will either get better jobs or many will shift abroad/emigrate. Construction is already on the way down, competitiion with cheaper staff from EE will put paid to lot more jobs. Self employed - same true for many of those as well, competition for work is increasing, not decreasing and margins are tightening.

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"Is a BTL landlord who owns 3 houses in Tyneside bought in 2002 and 2003."

"... they became BTL landlords themself buying property in cheaper areas like Tyneside before prices went crazy there. "

Fair enough to your mate. But the prices on Tyneside were crazy before 2002. A lots of houses just aren't moving in Newcastle mainly due to overall lower salaries than elsewhere, massive prices keeping out FTB and people from outside the region trying to BTL.

There have been multiple new blocks of 1,2,3 bed flats built across the city. Some of the new ones just aren't moving. Some of the slightly older blocks have 10 or so flats up for sale all the time presumably from BTL people wanting out.

There are a lot of people like myself who just aren't prepared to be FTB in such an inflated market. If your friend thinks he's going to get out with a tidy sum then good luck to him but it maybe harder than he first thought (and would he also not be swapping one inflated market for another?)

Oh yes and I expect house price to fall by at least 30% in Newcastle. Average salary circa 17K; average house price circa 120k

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There are plenty north of Watford on here who can't afford a home in their own back yard, thanks to BTL like him.

I have no real beef with BTL in principle, I do have a beef with those that suggest everyone has the option to do what they do. They don't.

NDL

We all have the option to succeed in life. The problem with most people IMO is that they don't like the fact that they have to start small and that it takes time and effort.

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what kind of country are we ? when we can happily fleece some poor northern townies by 20k each, then set up a nest for yourself in kent with the lazy gains. a working class hero is somthing to be ?

crazy. when i hear of the gangs in manchester who are total full time wage/banking snatchers / drug dealers from crap hole estates. you have to think - go for it lads. its the same thing. most of the poeple they rob are business owners takings while they are on the way to bank them.

whats the difference really ?

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Fair enough to your mate. But the prices on Tyneside were crazy before 2002. A lots of houses just aren't moving in Newcastle mainly due to overall lower salaries than elsewhere, massive prices keeping out FTB and people from outside the region trying to BTL.

He specifically stated that the houses are not in Newcastle but some obscure semi-coastal Tyneside town that I have never heard of before. In 2002 house prices were cheap in this town in comparison to Newcastle because hardly anybody outside the area knew it existed. The only reason he knows of its existance is because he used to live there as a kid and still has relatives living there who helped him buy the houses. He thinks the area is a great place to live and claims the kids at primary schools get milk at breaktime. I didn't ask him about educational standards in the area but he probably has no idea anyway.

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Today I met someone in the real world who reads stuff on HPC. He is:

25 years old.

Lives in Kent.

Is a tenant because he is priced out of the market in Kent.

Is a BTL landlord who owns 3 houses in Tyneside bought in 2002 and 2003.

Is selling his BTL houses because he thinks now is the time to cash in his investments.

Will buy a house for himself in Kent at the end of this year.

Thinks there will be a fall in house prices but only about 20% maximum in London and the south.

What does he do for a job? An HGV mechanic.

He told me that HPC is filled with sad IT types from London who think England ends at Watford. FTBs have almost been driven to extinction over the past 5 or so years, but smart (interpret this as I have no degree and work in a manual job) 20 something southerners had a trick up their sleeve. There's an old saying "if you can't beat them join them". Instead of endless ranting on about how greedy BTL landlords have priced them out of the market, they became BTL landlords themself buying property in cheaper areas like Tyneside before prices went crazy there. They got themselves onto the property ladder and now have an investment they can cash in and put towards a deposit on their own home where they want to live.

He thinks that in 3 years time the majority of 25 to 35 year old homeowners in London and the south will be construction workers, mechanics, and the self employed. Graduates and IT type will still be tenants.

Well he would be anti-HPC. Poor buggar. You paint him as a poor sad "Priced out of the market" FTB, but at the same time he is a 3x BTL investor. He has more at stake in keeping the market up than having it fall to its reasonable levels. This is disenginuity at its most ridiculous. Of course he is going to paint HPC as a sad place. DOH!

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Well he would be anti-HPC. Poor buggar. You paint him as a poor sad "Priced out of the market" FTB, but at the same time he is a 3x BTL investor.

What complete tosh.

1. He doesn't want to be a BTL investor. He just wants to be an ordinary homeowner.

2. He won't be a BTL investor for long as his houses are up for sale. He is prepared to drop prices to get rid of them as fast as he can.

3. He thinks there will be a fall in house prices and the bigger the fall the better for him when it comes to buying a house for himself.

I will admit that if I were in his position in 2002 and 2003 then I would seriously have considered doing the same.

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He specifically stated that the houses are not in Newcastle but some obscure semi-coastal Tyneside town that I have never heard of before.

..3 houses in an obscure semi-coastal Tyneside town... after cgt he might have enough left for a deposit on a garage in kent...

..good luck to him though... a decent idea but it sounds like it was poorly executed...

Edited by how much...?? you must be joking

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..3 houses in an obscure semi-coastal Tyneside town... after cgt he might have enough left for a deposit on a garage in kent...

..good luck to him though... a decent idea but it sounds like it was poorly executed...

I always get the whiff a selective and revisionist memory wirth this kind of tale, I`ve heard it so many times "Oh I bought in Hartlepool/Darlington in 2002 with BTL mortgages..." Firstly most BTL products have emerged in the last 3 years, secondly...just realised I can`t be bothered, as I said I`ve heard it far too many times before ;)

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We all have the option to succeed in life. The problem with most people IMO is that they don't like the fact that they have to start small and that it takes time and effort.

I wouldn't disagree TTRTR, but I think you underestimate people a little.

Many FTB understand the principle of starting small, and with time and effort achieving something. It's called a 25 year mortgage at 3.5x salary. Not 30-40 year mortgage at 10x salary.

I would argue that those FTBs that are actively refraining form participating in this market are succeeding. They are no doubt earning good returns in other markets whilst keeping a steady eye on the housing market.

NDL

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I always get the whiff a selective and revisionist memory wirth this kind of tale, I`ve heard it so many times "Oh I bought in Hartlepool/Darlington in 2002 with BTL mortgages..." Firstly most BTL products have emerged in the last 3 years, secondly...just realised I can`t be bothered, as I said I`ve heard it far too many times before ;)

:lol: i get like that too

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I wouldn't disagree TTRTR, but I think you underestimate people a little.

Many FTB understand the principle of starting small, and with time and effort achieving something. It's called a 25 year mortgage at 3.5x salary. Not 30-40 year mortgage at 10x salary.

I would argue that those FTBs that are actively refraining form participating in this market are succeeding. They are no doubt earning good returns in other markets whilst keeping a steady eye on the housing market.

NDL

We all have to make large financial decisions at some point in our lives but almost always we end up being responsible for them.

I could enter the housing market now but:

1 buying at the peak of an inflated market would be financial suicide in any market

2 Any interest on a mortgage (to the value of a house I would want to live in) would be at least double the rent i am having to pay at the moment.

3 The risk of negative equity is large and the financial consequences of Negative equity are severe.

4 The money i am saving by not paying interest on nortgage can be more usefully invested towards a future deposit when the market readjusts. I don't think that BTL would be a wise thing to do now either!

So in short I don't see how the above can fail to apply to most FTB. Unless there are compelling other reasons then financially it just doesn't make sense for us to step on the property ladder at the moment.

Sadly the the media and Estate agent hype is louder in volume than our dissenting voices and I see several of my peers taking on debt they can't possibly service in a downturn.

RTFTB

ps I am yet to find anybody who can offer me a reason as to why i woud want to FTB at present. Can anybody out there (including lurkers) let me know if there are any???

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I will admit that if I were in his position in 2002 and 2003 then I would seriously have considered doing the same.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing is it not :rolleyes:

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good luck to him though... a decent idea but it sounds like it was poorly executed...

I don't have the figures so am unable to comment on how good an investment it was. I am tempted to say that the investor has done his homework and will leave with a decent profit. At least he realises the market has topped out and the days of double digit HPI are long gone. He also told me that there are plenty of idiot (his word) BTL investors continuing to buy property in far flung outposts of Tyneside who fail to realise that the market has turned.

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Today I met someone in the real world who reads stuff on HPC. He is:

25 years old.

Lives in Kent.

Is a tenant because he is priced out of the market in Kent.

Is a BTL landlord who owns 3 houses in Tyneside bought in 2002 and 2003.

Is selling his BTL houses because he thinks now is the time to cash in his investments.

Will buy a house for himself in Kent at the end of this year.

Thinks there will be a fall in house prices but only about 20% maximum in London and the south.

What does he do for a job? An HGV mechanic.

He told me that HPC is filled with sad IT types from London who think England ends at Watford. FTBs have almost been driven to extinction over the past 5 or so years, but smart (interpret this as I have no degree and work in a manual job) 20 something southerners had a trick up their sleeve. There's an old saying "if you can't beat them join them". Instead of endless ranting on about how greedy BTL landlords have priced them out of the market, they became BTL landlords themself buying property in cheaper areas like Tyneside before prices went crazy there. They got themselves onto the property ladder and now have an investment they can cash in and put towards a deposit on their own home where they want to live.

He thinks that in 3 years time the majority of 25 to 35 year old homeowners in London and the south will be construction workers, mechanics, and the self employed. Graduates and IT type will still be tenants.

Mr HGV mechanic,

Do you really exist? Let us know.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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