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Guest Winners and Losers

Btl'ers Tell Fibs

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Guest Winners and Losers

Just got off the phone to a friend, BTL Landlord. Tells me that they paid 180k for a place and spent 50k on it. A quick look on Rightmove says they paid 210k. They tell me they paid 310k for another place - Rightmove says 335k - guess what, dividing it up into 'flats' - the reckon it will be worth 700k when its finished. Also, please tell me I am wrong, they say that their yield is 20%, I argue this, they say 13%. OK, so they pay 260k altogether for a place. Rent is 1000pcm. To me that equals around 5% yield. Am I wrong or am I wrong?????? Do these people even know what they are talking about?

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Just got off the phone to a friend, BTL Landlord. Tells me that they paid 180k for a place and spent 50k on it. A quick look on Rightmove says they paid 210k. They tell me they paid 310k for another place - Rightmove says 335k - guess what, dividing it up into 'flats' - the reckon it will be worth 700k when its finished. Also, please tell me I am wrong, they say that their yield is 20%, I argue this, they say 13%. OK, so they pay 260k altogether for a place. Rent is 1000pcm. To me that equals around 5% yield. Am I wrong or am I wrong?????? Do these people even know what they are talking about?

Many of these people have rose tinted spectacles which are so strong that they cause dissorientation and eye damage. I think most double digit claims on yield contain assumptions about capital appreciation.

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Guest Winners and Losers

Many of these people have rose tinted spectacles which are so strong that they cause dissorientation and eye damage. I think most double digit claims on yield contain assumptions about capital appreciation.

Precisely dog. I raised this issue with the BTL in question. I think I blinded them with science. How bad is that? - I ticked the University of Life box - I told them that capital gain is not the same thing as yield. You would think a competent BTL landlord would know that! Boy, are they in for a shock if capital gains do not materialise over the next few years. So cocky and confident, for now.....

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I've had the same thing, a developer proudly told me he paid £150k for a property, spent 6 months and £20k doing it up and he reckons it's worth well over £200k now. A quick check on nethouseprices shows they actually paid £180k, plus fee's, and the same sort of property in good condition on much bigger plots are failing to sell at £200k, if you offered £180k cash they'd probably snap your hand off.

The same people have also put another property up for let, the yield works out to be 3.5% excluding insurance, fee's, voids, certificates etc.

It's amazing how people must now lie about how little they supposedly bought a property for, just a few years ago this would have been a boast, so why the tinge of shame?

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Absolutely, and those weird rose-tinted spectacles worn by the BTLers seem to be very cleverly designed with an in-built Reality Distortion Field (RDF, link); this not only distorts their sense of scale and proportion, but also warps their powers of judgement. As self-delusion is supposed to enhance positive thinking and motivation, this should be a good thing, but sadly it’s allways shown to be hopelessly ineffective. :D

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Guest Winners and Losers

I've had the same thing, a developer proudly told me he paid £150k for a property, spent 6 months and £20k doing it up and he reckons it's worth well over £200k now. A quick check on nethouseprices shows they actually paid £180k, plus fee's, and the same sort of property in good condition on much bigger plots are failing to sell at £200k, if you offered £180k cash they'd probably snap your hand off.

The same people have also put another property up for let, the yield works out to be 3.5% excluding insurance, fee's, voids, certificates etc.

It's amazing how people must now lie about how little they supposedly bought a property for, just a few years ago this would have been a boast, so why the tinge of shame?

Yeah, I just don't get it. They obviously don't realise that you can look up what they paid. Doh! Why would you need to lie about how much you paid and spent if things are going so well. I have never felt the need to lie about my own situation. Talk about ramping the market! It's no small wonder everyone thinks BTL is easy money. In my experience it is not. I was wondering when I was speaking to this person about the costs of maintenance, insurance, tax (I get the feeling they have not be paying capital gains tax on the property they have sold!), the cost of buying and selling etc. etc. Mark my words, some people have been truly sucked in and if the market falls, they will be well and truly stuffed! Its like turkey's at Christmas.

By the way, the BTL had just got back from 'the internet cafe'. Swimming around in one million pounds worth of property, but can't afford a computer?????

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Swimming around in one million pounds worth of property, but can't afford a computer?????

You can tell that TTRTR is higher up in the pecking order, he can afford is own computer so he only needs to steal the broadband from his tenants :lol:

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You can tell that TTRTR is higher up in the pecking order, he can afford is own computer so he only needs to steal the broadband from his tenants :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

Are you taking over from CIUW???? He won't be happy you know!

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Yeah, I just don't get it. They obviously don't realise that you can look up what they paid. Doh! Why would you need to lie about how much you paid and spent if things are going so well. I have never felt the need to lie about my own situation.

Really? honestly have you never just elaborated just a little? It's more common than you think. Usualy it's about the number of bed partners, size of manhood or the 'deal' negotiated on a car.

In my experience many people, especially those not quite as secure about themselves as they first appear, talk things up a little. These 'deals' they have done on property are just another extension of their status/manhood.

You are of course right however.........with the proliferation of free 'price-paid' web sites they are setting themselves up to look very very foolish.

Confession time: I once 'knocked off' a couple of £hundred off the price I paid for a car at auction........bugger knows why, it was an okay deal anyway...........I'm much more secure with myself and my actions these days :P

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Really? honestly have you never just elaborated just a little? It's more common than you think. Usualy it's about the number of bed partners, size of manhood or the 'deal' negotiated on a car.

In my experience many people, especially those not quite as secure about themselves as they first appear, talk things up a little. These 'deals' they have done on property are just another extension of their status/manhood.

You are of course right however.........with the proliferation of free 'price-paid' web sites they are setting themselves up to look very very foolish.

Confession time: I once 'knocked off' a couple of £hundred off the price I paid for a car at auction........bugger knows why, it was an okay deal anyway...........I'm much more secure with myself and my actions these days :P

Nope, never felt the need to 'talk myself up'. Maybe because I am a girl - so no manhood to speak of. The BTL in question is also a girl. I think BTL'ers have to make it sound better than it is more to justify it to themselves rather than anyone else. They are talking themselves up really. Say it enough and you will start to believe your own lies.

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I've had the same thing, a developer proudly told me he paid £150k for a property, spent 6 months and £20k doing it up and he reckons it's worth well over £200k now. A quick check on nethouseprices shows they actually paid £180k, plus fee's, and the same sort of property in good condition on much bigger plots are failing to sell at £200k, if you offered £180k cash they'd probably snap your hand off.

The same people have also put another property up for let, the yield works out to be 3.5% excluding insurance, fee's, voids, certificates etc.

It's amazing how people must now lie about how little they supposedly bought a property for, just a few years ago this would have been a boast, so why the tinge of shame?

They're pretending to buy BMV to show just how great they are perhaps? Or is it if they sell-up at £180k they can lie and say they made £10k?

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Nope, never felt the need to 'talk myself up'. Maybe because I am a girl - so no manhood to speak of. The BTL in question is also a girl.

Good fior you, clearly you are at ease with yourself :)

Yup, my experience is girls are less susceptable to the practice.....but there are exceptions

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Good fior you, clearly you are at ease with yourself :)

Yup, my experience is girls are less susceptable to the practice.....but there are exceptions

Thanks, nice to hear from someone other than the "I like big boobs" brigade - even though you might! I am probably too honest, just never got the hang of the whole manipulation thing. Too nice. Oh well, I'm wishing myself some good 'karma', alla expats.

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Really? honestly have you never just elaborated just a little? It's more common than you think. Usualy it's about the number of bed partners, size of manhood or the 'deal' negotiated on a car.

Your point isn't lost on any of us, we're simply asking why they're now boasting in this fashion. For example, instead of lying about the original purchase price a few years ago people would simply lie about the final renovated price in order to impress people, and bigger numbers impress.

There's quite a difference between saying "I bought it for £180k painted it magnolia and it's now worth £250k" and "I bought it for £150k renovated for 6 months and it's now worth more than £200k", in the latter there is an implicit admission that property was overvalued to start with and hasn't gone up as expected, In today's market people wouldn't buy the first line but the latter is more plausable. If the new bull$hit valuation is simply not credible then the only option is to lie about the purchase price.

It's interesting because it seems some developers know deep down that the market is not as strong as they'd like. Over the last five years you could have used a monkey and a dart board to select properties and still make money, there was no need to fib.

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Your point isn't lost on any of us, we're simply asking why they're now boasting in this fashion. For example, instead of lying about the original purchase price a few years ago people would simply lie about the final renovated price in order to impress people, and bigger numbers impress.

There's quite a difference between saying "I bought it for £180k painted it magnolia and it's now worth £250k" and "I bought it for £150k renovated for 6 months and it's now worth more than £200k", in the latter there is an implicit admission that property was overvalued to start with and hasn't gone up as expected, In today's market people wouldn't buy the first line but the latter is more plausable. If the new bull$hit valuation is simply not credible then the only option is to lie about the purchase price.

It's interesting because it seems some developers know deep down that the market is not as strong as they'd like. Over the last five years you could have used a monkey and a dart board to select properties and still make money, there was no need to fib.

Yeah, like der, I told an estate agent today who tried to argue the point with me that we have been in a 'global property boom' and that prices had gone up everywhere, that is why prices had gone UP! He obviously thought it was some other reason as he believed that they were just going to go up forever. I saw this in Australia, a lot of young EA's who have never had to try and sell property in the hard times - they will be in for a big shock. They might actually have to do some work in the coming years!

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Your point isn't lost on any of us, we're simply asking why they're now boasting in this fashion..............There's quite a difference between saying "I bought it for £180k painted it magnolia and it's now worth £250k" and "I bought it for £150k renovated for 6 months and it's now worth more than £200k",

Dunno........but must admit I'm kinda looking forward to hearing the cover stories to hide the realities of "purchased for £180K, spent 6 mths + £20K......sold for £179K"

Thanks, nice to hear from someone other than the "I like big boobs" brigade.....Oh well, I'm wishing myself some good 'karma', alla expats.

You're welcome and the very best Karma to you my dear..........may god grant you even bigger boobs in your next life :)

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I'm seeing BTLs in similar situations in some of the 'vacant possession' properties that I've recently viewed.

One (looking at LR data) was bought for £185K 2 1/2 years ago. That was well overpriced for 2003/4.

Estate agent said that they did it up and let it to a friend for 2 years.... who trashed the place. With friends like that etc.....

They are asking £200K. So even if they get 90% of their silly asking price they'll be losing £5K + fees etc.

I wouldn't pay more than £130K for it, and its been on the market for 6 months + vacant now.

Must be costing them a few quid a month in mortgage payments or lost opportunity.

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Just got off the phone to a friend, BTL Landlord. Tells me that they paid 180k for a place and spent 50k on it. A quick look on Rightmove says they paid 210k. They tell me they paid 310k for another place - Rightmove says 335k - guess what, dividing it up into 'flats' - the reckon it will be worth 700k when its finished. Also, please tell me I am wrong, they say that their yield is 20%, I argue this, they say 13%. OK, so they pay 260k altogether for a place. Rent is 1000pcm. To me that equals around 5% yield. Am I wrong or am I wrong?????? Do these people even know what they are talking about?

Sorry for being dumb here - but how can you tell what they paid for it from Rightmove? Won't that just show the asking price?

Edit - Sorry, answered my own question. Rightmove shows sold prices also. I'll go away now.

Edited by r thritis

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Edit - Sorry, answered my own question. Rightmove shows sold prices also. I'll go away now.

You can get at the land registry data (which is what Rightmove is showing) via a bunch of websites. nethouseprices.com, upmystreet.com, ourproperty.co.uk etc etc etc.

It takes months for land reg data to show up, so even the most recent info trails the current state of the housing market by 3-6 months.

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Personally I'd email your friend a link to the nethouseprices page and say something along the line of...

"You told me the other day that you purchased that property for £160k but it's on this website for £180k. Perhaps you should tell them that they have the figures wrong, I can do it if you like send me the paper work and I'll put them straight".

Edited by gilf

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Personally I'd email your friend a link to the nethouseprices page and say something along the line of...

"You told me the other day that you purchased that property for £160k but it's on this website for £180k. Perhaps you should tell them that they have the figures wrong, I can do it if you like send me the paper work and I'll put them straight".

...or even tell your friend that it looks like they've been the victim of a fraud and someones pocketed £20,000 of their money. Tell them you'll report the matter to the Police....if they don't!

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Dunno........but must admit I'm kinda looking forward to hearing the cover stories to hide the realities of "purchased for £180K, spent 6 mths + £20K......sold for £179K"

You're welcome and the very best Karma to you my dear..........may god grant you even bigger boobs in your next life :)

How did you know?

...or even tell your friend that it looks like they've been the victim of a fraud and someones pocketed £20,000 of their money. Tell them you'll report the matter to the Police....if they don't!

:lol::lol:

Thought of that. A bit of nose rubbing anyone? Perhaps I should notify the inland revenue of this fraud?

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Good, let the BTLs boast about "how little" they spent!

Let them spread the word far and wide and shoot themselves in the foot.

The more they talk like this, the less everyone who hears them (and believes or pretends to believe them) will be prepared to pay for property.

Let them talk the market down and bring on the crash!

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How did you know?

:lol::lol:

Thought of that. A bit of nose rubbing anyone? Perhaps I should notify the inland revenue of this fraud?

Better to wait until after the 179K sale. Then ask them how much tax they're going to have to pay on their gains.

Then mention that you've informed the Land Registry of the buying price "error" :D:D .

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Better to wait until after the 179K sale. Then ask them how much tax they're going to have to pay on their gains.

Then mention that you've informed the Land Registry of the buying price "error" :D:D .

No, changed my mind. Would not want to bring any bad 'karma' upon myself. I will let them dig their own grave.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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