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jrbxyz

North London Ftb Couple -- No Chance On Earth

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We do the maths on this time & again at HPC, and it still hits me how unreal London property prices are compared to what most people earn. This is a good case in point: http://money.independent.co.uk/personal_fi...ticle347525.ece

A young-ish couple who wish to buy a flat in a nice area AND have a child. The guy's on a mediocre salary, but so are most people in London -- his salary is not much lower than the London median. Unless he triples his salary tomorrow, they have no chance, even with daddy's £70,000 thrown in. Better luck in your next life, mate.... or move up to Tottenham and buy that one-bed ex-council flat at £155,000, the most that the (suprisingly responsible) financial consultant suggests you should spend.

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I`m sorry but this couple do not get my sympathy. Do not even consider borrowing of Mom and pop under any circumstances whilst prices are on a knife edge. Stay put, ride it out unless you can negotiate a massive discount. Moreover, who the hell do they think they are? One is unemployed to all intents, the other gets a not too clever wage by London standards and yet their starter home should be a 250K flat in Highbury.. :o tough shit

http://firstrung.co.uk/articles.asp?pageid...1338&cat=47-0-0

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I`m sorry but this couple do not get my sympathy. Do not even consider borrowing of Mom and pop under any circumstances whilst prices are on a knife edge. Stay put, ride it out unless you can negotiate a massive discount. Moreover, who the hell do they think they are? One is unemployed to all intents, the other gets a not too clever wage by London standards and yet their starter home should be a 250K flat in Highbury.. :o tough shit

http://firstrung.co.uk/articles.asp?pageid...1338&cat=47-0-0

The problem is they'd be quite lucky to get a 'starter home' in Highbury at 250K -- they'd be lucky to get a one-bedroom flat there, from what I've seen. But tell me what decent 'starter home' can one get in London at £155,000 these days? The answer -- nothing outside a council estate or Zone 4. Hence 'no chance on earth' for any couple who don't both work or have one with a stellar salary. London's hopeless.

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The current average home in London is about 10 times salary.

At the top of the previous boom it hit 8 times, then quickly fell down to 4 times.

So London has always been more expensive than the rest of the country relative to incomes, but right now it's in cuckoo land.

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The problem is they'd be quite lucky to get a 'starter home' in Highbury at 250K -- they'd be lucky to get a one-bedroom flat there, from what I've seen. But tell me what decent 'starter home' can one get in London at £155,000 these days? The answer -- nothing outside a council estate or Zone 4. Hence 'no chance on earth' for any couple who don't both work or have one with a stellar salary. London's hopeless.

There is only one answer for the time being, stay out of the madness that is London prices, they don`t have to own so sholud stay out and not fight for the right to own by dragging relatives into the equation it fans the flames of financial inequality.

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There is only one answer for the time being, stay out of the madness that is London prices, they don`t have to own so sholud stay out and not fight for the right to own by dragging relatives into the equation it fans the flames of financial inequality.

Exactly. People like this just make the problem worse for others by stoking the fires. If you cant get on the ladder without Daddys help then should you really deserve to be on it?

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who the hell do they think they are? One is unemployed to all intents, the other gets a not too clever wage by London standards and yet their starter home should be a 250K flat in Highbury

http://firstrung.co.uk/articles.asp?pageid...1338&cat=47-0-0

These folk are going to be crying in two years time when their fixed rate mortgages get converted to the current rate. They will be posting messages on how they were conned into taking on too much debt by vested interests and money lenders.

These folks are bidding up property and causing all the current property problems. The money lenders are giving them the tools to do it; Esatate agents, family, and TV property programmes are egging them on from the sidelines.

What a shame...

Edited by Pluto

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A young-ish couple who wish to buy a flat in a nice area AND have a child.
I'd quite like a Ferrari but I can't afford it - big deal. They can't afford to buy a flat, big deal... They are better off renting. We need to move away from the myth that everyone should be able to afford a house - look around Europe the UK has higher owner occupied rate (71%) than most: Germany 43%, Netherlands 53%, Austria 54%, Sweden 60%, France 63% etc... (Italy and Spain are the major exceptions at 75 and 85% respectively).

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Agreed but if everyone can not afford to buy, rents need to be affordable, which currently they are not especially if you want or have children.

Isn't rent affordable? I was under the impression rent was highly affordable with good availability...

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I'd quite like a Ferrari but I can't afford it - big deal. They can't afford to buy a flat, big deal... They are better off renting. We need to move away from the myth that everyone should be able to afford a house - look around Europe the UK has higher owner occupied rate (71%) than most: Germany 43%, Netherlands 53%, Austria 54%, Sweden 60%, France 63% etc... (Italy and Spain are the major exceptions at 75 and 85% respectively).

The UK as a whole has an owner occupier rate of 71% but in London the OOR is 56%. It breaks down like this:

owner occupier:owns outright 22.1%

owner occupier:owns with a mortgage or loan: 33.5%

rented from council: 17.1%

rented from housing association: 9.1%

rented from private landlord: 14.3%

rented from other: 2.9%

souce:

http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/

London has already moved away from a high owner occupier rate and its 55.6% is comparable with the Netherlands and Austria. With the lack of ftbs this rate will decline futher.

Edited by Padiham

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I'd quite like a Ferrari but I can't afford it - big deal. They can't afford to buy a flat, big deal... They are better off renting. We need to move away from the myth that everyone should be able to afford a house - look around Europe the UK has higher owner occupied rate (71%) than most: Germany 43%, Netherlands 53%, Austria 54%, Sweden 60%, France 63% etc... (Italy and Spain are the major exceptions at 75 and 85% respectively).

Well said. The UK obsession, that "Being born with a brick in the stomach" as my European friend calls it, is so true. Ownership is not a right.

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Isn't rent affordable? I was under the impression rent was highly affordable with good availability...

Well, not in London it isn't even if it is cheaper than buying. Factor in childcare etc for many, there is not much to live on let alone save. We are the only couple at our nursery (albeit a small nursery) with 2 children attending. I have had new parents raise their eybrows when they have realised that 2 of the children are ours. Invariably, once we have got to know each other, the topic is always broached and my explanation is that we have made sacrifices in order to be able to afford to have our children close together in age. The UK probably has a new family structure, (in respect of working parents) where the gap between children is at least 4 years due to affordabilty. How sad is that?

I have 3 siblings with a gap of 12-18 months between us. As I have said before, my father was a factory worker and owns 2 houses outright. If he were to liquidate his properties he would probably walk away with a minimum of 750k.

Edited by Buffer Bear

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I'm amazed how many of my friends have been given hand outs from family. This continued reliance on family means that people are less likely to think of the financial consequence. Spending your own 'hard-earned' is always different to spending a windfall.

This couple need to get a good dose of reality and stop acting like a couple of cuckoos. Talk about lacking any backbone and morals.

Edited by Xurbia

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My parents are keen to help towards our deposit, but in this market, I am not prepared to risk their money. They have both worked very hard for what they have so it wouldn't be fair to squander it.

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Its hilarious. If they by some miracle did pull it off, you can hear the smugness 'oh, our first place was worth 250k you know'

No way chopper, not on your income with a family to support is that going to happen, so stop whining. You've made your lifestyle choices, now deal with them.

Reality is a bitch, aint it?

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My parents are keen to help towards our deposit, but in this market, I am not prepared to risk their money. They have both worked very hard for what they have so it wouldn't be fair to squander it.

Good on you.

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But, if our parents' generation has cashed in on property, why shouldn't they help out.

Would it be more acceptable if they cashed in now (by selling up/downsizing) and gave us a tidy sum to put by for when the crash comes?

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But, if our parents' generation has cashed in on property, why shouldn't they help out.

Would it be more acceptable if they cashed in now (by selling up/downsizing) and gave us a tidy sum to put by for when the crash comes?

It's up to the individual I guess. I just believe in working hard and paying my own way. There are distinct mindsets. Some people are embarrassed by gifts and some just want to extract as much as possible. I'd have to live with the knowledge that I was gambling with the money in this current market. Do you really think they will pay it back? If money is given to offset inheritance tax it's a shrewd move perhaps but there are strict IR guidelines about this (it's about 3/4 grand year). Mostly I think this example is just people trying to live beyond their means. We are talking about 70 grand, not a couple of 100 quid.

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If you don't take the money now you're gambling too as are your parents, because if there is a HPC that money will evaporate. You won't need the deposit in the case of a serious HPC, which will be just as well because it won't be there. Morally each seems to cancel the other out.

I am quite possibly talking crap though - I'm very tired. Feel free anyone to put me right :lol:

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If you don't take the money now you're gambling too as are your parents, because if there is a HPC that money will evaporate. You won't need the deposit in the case of a serious HPC, which will be just as well because it won't be there. Morally each seems to cancel the other out.

I am quite possibly talking crap though - I'm very tired. Feel free anyone to put me right :lol:

I think the best thing to do is for us to take the 70 grand and go down the pub with it. :D

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I think the best thing to do is for us to take the 70 grand and go down the pub with it. :D

Not tonight. I'd fall asleep and slide under the table and get fag ends and crisp crumbs in my hair.

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I can't help wondering what they regard as a "suitable property" and why it has to be in Highbury (nice but overpriced). I'm buying a 2-bed with garden in Muswell Hill (about 3 miles further out, more suburban, but still nice) for under £190K. It's nothing amazing, but for my purposes it will be fine. Even if they need three bedrooms they could find something cheaper than that with a bit of imagination, without venturing into anywhere too dreadful.

I'm not saying London is cheap, of course it's not. But given the precarious nature of their finances, it seems to me that they would do well to cast the net a bit further rather than risking quite so much family money. In fact they'd probably be best off waiting a while and seeing what happens, given their age. London might fall a bit or rise a bit, but even at the worst case scenario (for them) it's not going up by much in the near future.

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My parents are keen to help towards our deposit, but in this market, I am not prepared to risk their money. They have both worked very hard for what they have so it wouldn't be fair to squander it.

Hear hear! B)

or is it 'here here'? :unsure:

or even 'here hare here'?!! :blink:

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Hear hear! B)

or is it 'here here'? :unsure:

or even 'here hare here'?!! :blink:

have always wondered that.

i think it could be "hear here"!!! ???? :blink:

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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