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willing

Older Generation Stupidity

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This follows on from an earlier post about the unrealistic salary expectations of new graduates and twenty somethings.

I was at a family party this weekend and watched something that, quite frankly, left me gob-smacked!

My wife's nephew (just 31) has just landed himself a new job as a senior business consultant on the information management side. Now he wanted to move to the Hereford area in the Midlands and I'd already told him a few months ago that I doubted he'd find much in his line of work so he shouldn't be dissapointed. So when he announced his new job, I was impressed and congratulated him.

Now it's a permanent position in a growing company, he gets a pension and the hours are good + 24 days holiday - so I would have thought this constituted a 'good' job.

Then his dad asked him how much he would earn. It turns out he would earn £38.5K + 5% to 25% bonus.

Now to me in this area, at his age (31) this is a good salary, but his dad started trying to persuade him that it was extremely poor and he should not even think about the job because 'he'd never be able to afford a house'!

Thank god I'm not in my wife's family! The really funny thing is that the father in question is a 'maintenence technician' in Brum so I wonder how 'good' his salary is.

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Doesn't sound surprising. The way a lot of the older generation seem to be in denial about the impact of HPI is by being in denial about the reality of wages. When they see somebody under 35 with an iPOD, a camera phone, digital camera, etc, they assume they're on £40k+.

A few years ago when the firemen came out for £30k lots of people were saying "£30k isn't much for risking your life etc etc". The reality at the time was that a wage of £30k would have put them in the top 14% of the population in employment.

There seems to be an impression afoot that people on the whole earn far more than they actually do. The impression of wealth in the recent past is to a statistically significant extent an illusion based on debt. £38.5k + bonus in Hereford is a big salary by any reasonable objective standard.

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The really funny thing is that the father in question is a 'maintenence technician' in Brum so I wonder how 'good' his salary is.

Who knows? I read a sob story some time ago about an impoverished fork-lift truck driver who couldn't afford to pay off his debts as his take-home pay was 'only £340 a week'. I have a job that is regarded as requiring far more intelligence and education than driving a fork-lift truck and my take home pay is £240 a week... I avoid unmanagable debt by not borrowing money I can't afford to pay back. So maybe Mr Maintenance Technician is on £200K a year :rolleyes:

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Totally agree, there is a reason they are out of touch, the price of houses, and a belief that wage and house prices are rising at the same time..

Edited by moosetea

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Doesn't sound surprising. The way a lot of the older generation seem to be in denial about the impact of HPI is by being in denial about the reality of wages. When they see somebody under 35 with an iPOD, a camera phone, digital camera, etc, they assume they're on £40k+.

A few years ago when the firemen came out for £30k lots of people were saying "£30k isn't much for risking your life etc etc". The reality at the time was that a wage of £30k would have put them in the top 14% of the population in employment.

There seems to be an impression afoot that people on the whole earn far more than they actually do. The impression of wealth in the recent past is to a statistically significant extent an illusion based on debt. £38.5k + bonus in Hereford is a big salary by any reasonable objective standard.

I disagree. Incomes in my experience are far higher than official stats indicate.

As for £30k putting one in the top 14% - absolute fantasy!

Just about every trades person earns far more than declared. Self - employed ditto.

An roadside assistance guy I know (used to work for the AA now merged into VW assistance somehow) is on £40k including o/time, he's only 26.

Agency care workers, nursing home staff nurses etc work via my freinds agency and earn absolute minimum £20000, with some nurses taking £50000. It may be an agency but most of his 'staff' have been with him years on these incomes and a great many are so called lowly paid immigrants. Now consider these peoples partners usually doing similar work and it isnt uncommon for immigrant couples to be grossing £80000+.

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well no. they are pretty dumb when it comes to common financial sense.

they can only compare to 'their day'

affordable housing, jobs pensions, family planning etc.

holidays. need i go on.?

far greater job security too...........The majority of people want this as only a small minority are wheeler dealers who naturally like risk.

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So maybe Mr Maintenance Technician is on £200K a year :rolleyes:

About £60000.

Thats what they earn at Glaxo in Hertfordshire. These are the guys that maintain the aircon, plumbing and other systems.

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I disagree. Incomes in my experience are far higher than official stats indicate.

As for £30k putting one in the top 14% - absolute fantasy!

Just about every trades person earns far more than declared. Self - employed ditto.

An roadside assistance guy I know (used to work for the AA now merged into VW assistance somehow) is on £40k including o/time, he's only 26.

Agency care workers, nursing home staff nurses etc work via my freinds agency and earn absolute minimum £20000, with some nurses taking £50000. It may be an agency but most of his 'staff' have been with him years on these incomes and a great many are so called lowly paid immigrants. Now consider these peoples partners usually doing similar work and it isnt uncommon for immigrant couples to be grossing £80000+.

It's certainly true that self-employed people underdeclaring their incomes makes the official average income lower than the actual one.......but most unskilled jobs pay the minimum wage or just above it........

I live in a town with a large surplus of jobs in retail and hotels and nursing homes and they're still only offering people £5.49 an hour to work in the supermarkets............and the Poles and Lithuanians are only clearing about £900 a month including overtime.

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I think he was probably being sarcastic by the sounds of it! Hardly reflective of older society in general.

ps. I'm not old.

I doubt it, the tone was all wrong. I really think that this guy had read in the paper that this or that business consultant was on 120K+ and had compared his son's job to that. I doubt it even passed his mind that the consultants he read about were top wack, city of london types.

There does seem to be an attitude that a salary is a salary is a salary, and that regional variations simply do not apply anymore.

What I want to know is how he got this massive salary in Hereford! Some of the country around there is lovely and I'd drop my larger SE salary like a shot if I could get that money up there!

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I disagree. Incomes in my experience are far higher than official stats indicate.

As for £30k putting one in the top 14% - absolute fantasy!

Actually it's not, you only need earn £92k pre-tax to be in the top 1% of earners in the country. The majority of people are on less than £20k.

What we're talking about here is the "superstar effect" or unrealstic expectations by the majority of the population. If your salary can't, MEW can.

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I disagree. Incomes in my experience are far higher than official stats indicate.

As for £30k putting one in the top 14% - absolute fantasy!

Just about every trades person earns far more than declared. Self - employed ditto.

An roadside assistance guy I know (used to work for the AA now merged into VW assistance somehow) is on £40k including o/time, he's only 26.

Agency care workers, nursing home staff nurses etc work via my freinds agency and earn absolute minimum £20000, with some nurses taking £50000. It may be an agency but most of his 'staff' have been with him years on these incomes and a great many are so called lowly paid immigrants. Now consider these peoples partners usually doing similar work and it isnt uncommon for immigrant couples to be grossing £80000+.

Sorry mate that's b@@lox!

I have friends who work as Truck Drivers and Roadside Vehicle Technitions, I also have mates who are Doctors, Nurses, Consultants and IT Project Directors. I even know one guy who is a Wine Buyer.

A while back I did a kind of salary survey (I think I even posted the results here some time back). If I remember rightly it was something like:

Uni Mates - most on 17K to 28K. A few on 35K - 65K. One on 120K.

Non Uni Mates - most on <20K. One on 35K.

Basically almost everyone was on <30K if they were in their 20s, uni or non-uni.

Sorry, your figures are simply rubbish, nice wind up though ;)

Edited by willing

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I have to disagree.

So do I. I see an aweful lot of self employed accounts, I think they are almost always correct. Certainly the idea that all self employed people are on the fiddle is a non-sense, worryingly it does however seem to be a view that is prevalent within govenment & the civil service (to include HMRC).

There are no doubt a few who are hiding their income but they are IMO a very small minority, to claim otherwise is a grave insult to the vast majority of honest self employees, who work hard to make a contribution towards the salaries of those who call them cheats.

Edited by Young Goat

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I disagree. Incomes in my experience are far higher than official stats indicate.

As for £30k putting one in the top 14% - absolute fantasy!

Just about every trades person earns far more than declared. Self - employed ditto.

An roadside assistance guy I know (used to work for the AA now merged into VW assistance somehow) is on £40k including o/time, he's only 26.

Agency care workers, nursing home staff nurses etc work via my freinds agency and earn absolute minimum £20000, with some nurses taking £50000. It may be an agency but most of his 'staff' have been with him years on these incomes and a great many are so called lowly paid immigrants. Now consider these peoples partners usually doing similar work and it isnt uncommon for immigrant couples to be grossing £80000+.

Dogbox, I always knew that you were living on another planet, but even I didn't assume it was in a parrallel universe, where nurses are raking it in, and care home staff have so much money they don't know what to do with it.

Those super wealthy Polish immigrants going home from their waitressing jobs with £1000's in tips every week. THose shop assistants at ASDA who are all top rate tax payers....

I don't see it London, and I have worked with a very mixed group of people over the last five years. Your (imaginary) friend's agency must be truly amazing to pay such rates, and take his cut, and make a profit. Hs he thought of investing in buy to let? Apparently, its easy to make a fortune in that, too.

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I disagree. Incomes in my experience are far higher than official stats indicate.

As for £30k putting one in the top 14% - absolute fantasy!

Just about every trades person earns far more than declared. Self - employed ditto.

An roadside assistance guy I know (used to work for the AA now merged into VW assistance somehow) is on £40k including o/time, he's only 26.

Agencycare workers, nursing home staff nurses etc work via my freinds agency and earn absolute minimum £20000, with some nurses taking £50000. It may be an agency but most of his 'staff' have been with him years on these incomes and a great many are so called lowly paid immigrants. Now consider these peoples partners usually doing similar work and it isnt uncommon for immigrant couples to be grossing £80000+.

Dogbox - are you a mortgage broker? You dont want to believe those self cert stories you get told :lol:

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Guest Bart of Darkness
Just about every trades person earns far more than declared. Self - employed ditto.

Hmmm.... well, apart from £5 worth of share dividends that I forgot about, I declared everything I earned this year.

At least dog's Tax Abusers will be grateful for my contributions.

(Major publishing firms tend not to do "cash in hand" deals :( ).

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I disagree. Incomes in my experience are far higher than official stats indicate.

As for £30k putting one in the top 14% - absolute fantasy!

Just about every trades person earns far more than declared. Self - employed ditto.

An roadside assistance guy I know (used to work for the AA now merged into VW assistance somehow) is on £40k including o/time, he's only 26.

Agency care workers, nursing home staff nurses etc work via my freinds agency and earn absolute minimum £20000, with some nurses taking £50000. It may be an agency but most of his 'staff' have been with him years on these incomes and a great many are so called lowly paid immigrants. Now consider these peoples partners usually doing similar work and it isnt uncommon for immigrant couples to be grossing £80000+.

OK I thought I'd check this up on a few job sites:

Roadside assistance 15K to 35K OTE - so not your average AA guy then Dogbox!

Nurse 5K to 26,500 (and that's for a Clinical Research Nurse!) - not quite you 20K minimum eh?

Like I say, your figures are b@llox!

I suppose it could be that you just happen to know all the top earners in every profession though :lol:

Links:

http://jobsearch.monster.co.uk/jobsearch.a...&lid=&x=40&y=17

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It may be an agency but most of his 'staff' have been with him years on these incomes and a great many are so called lowly paid immigrants. Now consider these peoples partners usually doing similar work and it isnt uncommon for immigrant couples to be grossing £80000+.

Why bring immigrants into the debate? What's the matter with you?

FFS.

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Nurse 5K to 26,500 (and that's for a Clinical Research Nurse!) - not quite you 20K minimum eh?

In fairness to Dogbox, the starting pay for a newly qualified nurse is just over £17k.

Edit: Thats working for the NHS. Agency is higher paid.

Edited by libitina

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So do I. I see an aweful lot of self employed accounts, I think they are almost always correct. Certainly the idea that all self employed people are on the fiddle is a non-sense, worryingly it does however seem to be a view that is prevalent within govenment & the civil service (to include HMRC).

There are no doubt a few who are hiding their income but they are IMO a very small minority, to claim otherwise is a grave insult to the vast majority of honest self employees, who work hard to make a contribution towards the salaries of those who call them cheats.

Generally, in my experience, Monday to Friday (9 to 5) most work would be declared earnings - jobs done on evenings and weekends and it's usually a back pocket job. And quite right too!

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I disagree. Incomes in my experience are far higher than official stats indicate.

As for £30k putting one in the top 14% - absolute fantasy!

Just about every trades person earns far more than declared. Self - employed ditto.

An roadside assistance guy I know (used to work for the AA now merged into VW assistance somehow) is on £40k including o/time, he's only 26.

Agency care workers, nursing home staff nurses etc work via my freinds agency and earn absolute minimum £20000, with some nurses taking £50000. It may be an agency but most of his 'staff' have been with him years on these incomes and a great many are so called lowly paid immigrants. Now consider these peoples partners usually doing similar work and it isnt uncommon for immigrant couples to be grossing £80000+.

Agency staff earn more but they won't get paid annual leave, sick pay, company pension, etc. And there is no guarantee of work. Most agencies will phone up at the last minute asking you to cover a shift where somebody has phoned in sick at 5am. I know a number of NHS nurses who are on less than 20k.

The AA guy and the maintenance technicians mentioned above will only be earning that sort of money with over time - and a lot of it - so they deserve it.

Maintenance technicians in my industry often earn a lot more than their management, but they work all the hours they are allowed, including shifts (and there is a paid shift allowance in many companies).

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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