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I find it astonishing that the government are getting away with yet more inflation-busting council tax rises. Not content with taxing pensions and preventing the young getting onto the property ladder this government has the temerity to shaft us all with another huge council tax increase; an increase which hits the elderly right where it hurts.

Imagine yourself just retiring, only to find out that the minute pension pot hardly buys you a loaf of bread out there in the annuity market and then wallop, yet another council tax increase.

I'm beginning to worry about the HPC endgame. If the pension companies are subsidising the irresponsible lending of today what exactly brings the system back into equilibrium or is this catch-22 stagnation?

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I find it astonishing that the government are getting away with yet more inflation-busting council tax rises. Not content with taxing pensions and preventing the young getting onto the property ladder this government has the temerity to shaft us all with another huge council tax increase; an increase which hits the elderly right where it hurts.

Imagine yourself just retiring, only to find out that the minute pension pot hardly buys you a loaf of bread out there in the annuity market and then wallop, yet another council tax increase.

I'm beginning to worry about the HPC endgame. If the pension companies are subsidising the irresponsible lending of today what exactly brings the system back into equilibrium or is this catch-22 stagnation?

Nothing. Its all screwed :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r: :angry:

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The shift of NuLabour from policies that reflect compassion and care for the elderly, young and disadvantaged to callous capitalism based on HPI, debt and enriching lenders and landlords has not gone unnoticed among pensioners who will no doubt express themselves at the next election.

Interesting that the Tories are moving leftward to fill the middle ground as the LiberalDems try to occupy the ground once occupied by the loony left? NuLabour ARE the new Old Tory party!

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At 59 I do not consider myself “elderly” yet !, but as my income declines, despite being told by our beloved dictator that inflation is VERY low, I believe (know) I am being slowly “screwed”.

Another point you can add, location (I am in Devon), if you live outside any of the NuLab’s cities you are not seen or heard (unless you are a fox), just screwed again, and again to finance their new jag’s

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I find it astonishing that the government are getting away with yet more inflation-busting council tax rises. Not content with taxing pensions and preventing the young getting onto the property ladder this government has the temerity to shaft us all with another huge council tax increase; an increase which hits the elderly right where it hurts.

Imagine yourself just retiring, only to find out that the minute pension pot hardly buys you a loaf of bread out there in the annuity market and then wallop, yet another council tax increase.

I'm beginning to worry about the HPC endgame. If the pension companies are subsidising the irresponsible lending of today what exactly brings the system back into equilibrium or is this catch-22 stagnation?

Well, I'm 29 and pay an exorbitant level of council tax, with no subsidies, on a property I rent, for services I mostly don't use (apart from the usual rubbish collection, etc)., with no possible expectation of buying a house, in an area where there are plenty of pensioners rattling around in 4 and 5 bed houses complaining that their council tax is too high. Theirs is the first generation in global history that has expected to be able to live comfortably in mostly empty family-sized property in retirement, and has expected that that they should be able to maintain this standard of living on a fixed income. (Nowhere else and never before in history have the retired expected to do this.) My grandmother complains endlessly about her council tax, but she owns a nice property that's too large for her and has a huge amount in the bank from a profit she made selling another property in 2000. Fair enough, not all, in fact few, pensioners are in that position. But even fewer young people are, and it doesn't look like our wages are going to be rising much in the future to allow us to have state pensions or savings, or any annuities at all - they'll be bringing back the workhouse by the time I'm a pensioner :(

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Well, I'm 29 and pay an exorbitant level of council tax, with no subsidies, on a property I rent, for services I mostly don't use (apart from the usual rubbish collection, etc)., with no possible expectation of buying a house, in an area where there are plenty of pensioners rattling around in 4 and 5 bed houses complaining that their council tax is too high. Theirs is the first generation in global history that has expected to be able to live comfortably in mostly empty family-sized property in retirement, and has expected that that they should be able to maintain this standard of living on a fixed income. (Nowhere else and never before in history have the retired expected to do this.) My grandmother complains endlessly about her council tax, but she owns a nice property that's too large for her and has a huge amount in the bank from a profit she made selling another property in 2000. Fair enough, not all, in fact few, pensioners are in that position. But even fewer young people are, and it doesn't look like our wages are going to be rising much in the future to allow us to have state pensions or savings, or any annuities at all - they'll be bringing back the workhouse by the time I'm a pensioner :(

I don't disagree Zaranna. Those fortunate enough to have retired before the pension's crisis are relatively rich.

It's turning into a very expensive country. Usually you get quality when you pay exorbitant amounts but not with Tony Blair. As I run my own company I've contributed VAT, NI and every other tax (I own a car, say no more) to the government and I've seen my income diminish. Every profit is scrutinised and taxed harshly. I've always played the game and been honest with all my tax dealings but stealth tax is not being honest. There is little incentive to run a small company in the UK, unless you are willing to pocket money directly from the till. After all you can get a 'self-cert' mortgage; it's what they are designed for except no IFA will tell you. Perhaps the government wants to create a bigger black market?

If we can afford a war, tax computer systems that don't work, illegal-immigrant legal aid, huge MP pension bills and sex changes on the NHS why can't we look after our own elderly? We shouldn't have to make people proverty-stricken before paying the council tax for them. It could be argued that it's better to be an illegal-immigrant than an old person!

England is changing fast and I don't like it much. It's never been easy to get on in life but it's also never been this tough.

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1489603,00.html

Caroline Spelman, Tory spokesman for local government, said: “Mr Blair claimed that he had ‘no plans to increase tax at all’. But council tax has soared by 70 per cent since 1997, and is just one of the 66 stealth taxes Labour have heaped on hardworking people. These latest rises are double the rate of inflation — and it is clear Labour are planning to drive them up even further if elected to a third term in office

70% :o That's a massive increase for anyone let alone the elderly.

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The Government has announced a new tax. With oxygen levels at a new low of 21%, the Goverment has decided to tax the amount of air we breathe. "We only need five breaths per minute," said Snout Nosed Presscott as he drew a deep breath. "Anything over that is just being greedy." When pointed out that levels of oxygen have always been at 21%, Anthony Liar responded with "well, yes, levels have always been 21% but people would prefer them to be much higher and reports from the BBC indicate that in real terms we breathe out more damaging carbon dioxide thus reducing the levels of oxgyen even further. This new tax will act as a pollution tax, not as a tax on oxygen which will always be free."

The initial charge is expected to be 50 pence per day. Pensioners over 75 will get a reduction of 5 pence per day which according to Gordy Brownnose represents "real good value". Children will not be exempt. The Goverment will create an account for each child which will be debited with the daily cost of air tax until the 16th birthday. The child will then be responsible for paying the account at a low intrest rate in line with inflation. New born children can put their £250 gift voucher towards the tax.

The Government also proposed that anyone dying before the age of 120 years would also have to pay the tax as if they had lived to the age of 120. This will be deducted automatically from their estate.

In other news, MPs voted to a 300% pay increase for themselves, with increased holidays, rising from 50 days to 150 days. The summer recess will now be known as the three seasons recess.

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1489603,00.html

Caroline Spelman, Tory spokesman for local government, said: “Mr Blair claimed that he had ‘no plans to increase tax at all’. But council tax has soared by 70 per cent since 1997, and is just one of the 66 stealth taxes Labour have heaped on hardworking people. These latest rises are double the rate of inflation — and it is clear Labour are planning to drive them up even further if elected to a third term in office

70% :o That's a massive increase for anyone let alone the elderly.

It's such a contradiction - don't you dare ask for more wages (taxed money) but don't you dare not pay your exhorbitant council tax.

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Guest Winners and Losers

I am interested to know why and how it became acceptable for tenants to pay council tax? I think this is disgusting. In Australia the Landlord pays the rates (it's their house afterall!). It was not always this way in the UK? What started it off?

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Imagine yourself just retiring, only to find out that the minute pension pot hardly buys you a loaf of bread out there in the annuity market and then wallop, yet another council tax increase.

If I was just retiring, I'd have bought a nice house for £200. I'd get a nice pension paid for by the younger generation. My private pension would be worth twice what someone today would get (only a few years of Brown's pension raids). I'd also have a lot more savings because taxes were lower during my working life. Then I'd get all the extra cold-weather payments, subsidised transport, free use of council facilities and so on.

Don't worry about the oldies, they're the ones that did this to us and they're sitting pretty and laughing hard.

I am interested to know why and how it became acceptable for tenants to pay council tax? I think this is disgusting. In Australia the Landlord pays the rates (it's their house afterall!). It was not always this way in the UK? What started it off?

It never became acceptable. It sucks.

It started it when some lefties refused to pay their share of the community charge and kept rioting and stuff. Instead of bringing back the rates (which would have been sensible) we got the iniquitous council tax. This lead to some highly paid layabouts (see the regular tax abuser posts) and suffering for the general population.

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Well, I'm 29 and pay an exorbitant level of council tax, with no subsidies, on a property I rent, for services I mostly don't use (apart from the usual rubbish collection, etc)., with no possible expectation of buying a house, in an area where there are plenty of pensioners rattling around in 4 and 5 bed houses complaining that their council tax is too high. Theirs is the first generation in global history that has expected to be able to live comfortably in mostly empty family-sized property in retirement, and has expected that that they should be able to maintain this standard of living on a fixed income. (Nowhere else and never before in history have the retired expected to do this.) My grandmother complains endlessly about her council tax, but she owns a nice property that's too large for her and has a huge amount in the bank from a profit she made selling another property in 2000. Fair enough, not all, in fact few, pensioners are in that position. But even fewer young people are, and it doesn't look like our wages are going to be rising much in the future to allow us to have state pensions or savings, or any annuities at all - they'll be bringing back the workhouse by the time I'm a pensioner :(

My grandmother is in a similar situation. She lives alone in a 7 bedroom house with 3 acres of land only 2 minutes walk from a good train station just outside London. The house would easily be £1+ million at the moment, yet she struggles with the council tax, heating and maintainence on such a large property. However, she is reluctant to move for strong sentimental reasons. Its her decision, but I think she and other pensioners should realise that Band H houses are meant for large families who can afford the responsibilities as well as the privileges of big houses.

Edited by tonification

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My grandmother is in a similar situation. She lives alone in a 7 bedroom house with 3 acres of land only 2 minutes walk from a good train station just outside London. The house would easily be £1+ million at the moment, yet she struggles with the council tax, heating and maintainence on such a large property. However, she is reluctant to move for strong sentimental reasons. Its her decision, but I think she and other pensioners should realise that Band H houses are meant for large families who can afford the responsibilities as well as the privileges of big houses.

Should it matter that she has a big house? In terms of council tax, no. She's probably going to use the same level of service as a band A payer. Ability to pay should be key.

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Should it matter that she has a big house? In terms of council tax, no. She's probably going to use the same level of service as a band A payer. Ability to pay should be key.

Good point. We all build up a network of friends (neighbours, remember them?!) during our lives. The house is a home and a friend sometimes; this is a fact lost on many. Forcing the elderly out of their family homes isn't good for anyone. I can understand why a large house would benefit a big family but this doesn't mean we should persecute the elderly for living out their lives where they want to. What type of society do we become?

My problem is the way in which these taxes will eventually force the sale of houses. Don't forget we have heating costs going up at the same time. How can people cope on fixed incomes? I'm not talking about the rich pensioners either; there are a lot of stoical pensioners barely getting buy. If you're young you have hope for the future and ways of making money - its a big difference. Some pensioners may well have huge pots of cash in the bank but these are used to generate pitiful amounts of monthly income to prop up their pensions, so the capital sum cannot be touched.

I have to admit to my own ignorance. It was only recently that I found out that pension income is taxed. **** the government, I intend to spend my pension in my younger years.

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Don't weep for pensioners - most have brand new cars and ..erm..PENSIONS!! Most have a final salary work pension, gov pension (the only one they admit to - that's why they don't want means testing), have had a lifetime of financial glee, inflation paying their mortgages, NHS, free dentists, no war, ....

I could go on.

Weep for the YOUNG.

Pensioners should WORK for their money. Just a few hours a day.

And I don't mean the 80 yr old war vets I mean the 65 yr old gits who have hogged and clogged this country for their entire lives.

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This Council Tax, just what is it?

Now VAT, I understand that this is levied on most things you buy. You don't want to pay it, don't buy those things or buy them secondhand.

Income Tax I also understand, you earn more, you pay more.

Council Tax, hmm, let's be honest is a muddle.

Is it for services? How can it logically be because there's only one tax per property irrespective of the number of people residing there, apart from the 25% reduction for single occupancy.

However, the "value" of your property is what decides the level of tax you pay. This though is unrelated to income.

It must just therefore be a wealth tax.

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I don't disagree Zaranna. Those fortunate enough to have retired before the pension's crisis are relatively rich.

It's turning into a very expensive country. Usually you get quality when you pay exorbitant amounts but not with Tony Blair. As I run my own company I've contributed VAT, NI and every other tax (I own a car, say no more) to the government and I've seen my income diminish. Every profit is scrutinised and taxed harshly. I've always played the game and been honest with all my tax dealings but stealth tax is not being honest. There is little incentive to run a small company in the UK, unless you are willing to pocket money directly from the till. After all you can get a 'self-cert' mortgage; it's what they are designed for except no IFA will tell you. Perhaps the government wants to create a bigger black market?

If we can afford a war, tax computer systems that don't work, illegal-immigrant legal aid, huge MP pension bills and sex changes on the NHS why can't we look after our own elderly? We shouldn't have to make people proverty-stricken before paying the council tax for them. It could be argued that it's better to be an illegal-immigrant than an old person!

England is changing fast and I don't like it much. It's never been easy to get on in life but it's also never been this tough.

Like you I worked very hard at running a small business and came to that conclusion long ago and quit!

Something is fundementally broke when you cannot get ahead however hard you work.

Property is the only way forward as this boom is primed to power ahead again as the money supply ripples through and massive free for all immigration contines to deflate real wages.

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What is wrong with having a tax on property - it is eminently sensible to me. If council tax was abolished it would push up property prices even higher!

This ability to pay argument gets my goat as pensioners can have up to £16k in savings before they start losing their entitlement to council tax benefit - the equivalent for people under 65 is only around £3000. Nearly 1.5m pensioners don't claim the council tax benefit to which they are entitled - they only have themselves to blame if they can't pay their bills!

By contrast half of all children in poverty in the Uk live in households which are not eligible for council tax benefit at all - weep for them and their future - not this generation of pensioners who for the most part have been the most pampered in history!

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Good point. We all build up a network of friends (neighbours, remember them?!) during our lives. The house is a home and a friend sometimes; this is a fact lost on many. Forcing the elderly out of their family homes isn't good for anyone. I can understand why a large house would benefit a big family but this doesn't mean we should persecute the elderly for living out their lives where they want to. What type of society do we become?

Sorry but if we are going to be sentimental about someone then we should be sentimental about the young families crammed into homes that are too small for them because they can't move up the ladder, or the families that are not getting started at all because FTBs are priced out and therefore can't settle down. Without meaning to be cruel, the elderly have had their time and while it is painful to leave behind places with many memories, it should be an accepted fact of life that when the kids have flown the nest you downsize to a place that's more suitable, take your profit and let someone else have their go. We are living longer and there is only a limited number of new family homes that can be built.

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It never became acceptable. It sucks.

It started it when some lefties refused to pay their share of the community charge and kept rioting and stuff. Instead of bringing back the rates (which would have been sensible) we got the iniquitous council tax. This lead to some highly paid layabouts (see the regular tax abuser posts) and suffering for the general population.

Point of political history - 'it became acceptable' for tenants to pay local taxes as opposed to the landlord

with the introduction of the Poll Tax - this was amongst themain reasons for 'lefties' refusing to pay.

It was swiftly followed by the council tax, but by then landlords had it all their own way with Shorthold

Assured Tenanencies.

Both products of Thatcher and her cronies - those same cronies whom most posters here would seem

to trust to run the economy...:)

Hmph!

ABB

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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