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South Africa Moves To Ban Foreign Landowners

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...2/18/wsaf18.xml

The era when Britons were free to acquire farms and homes in South Africa was drawing to a close yesterday when an official panel recommended a "moratorium" on foreigners buying or selling any land.

This freeze would apply to every category of land, ranging from housing and farms to private game parks and industrial sites. It could be followed by new laws banning foreigners from buying freehold property and restricting them to 99-year leases.

More in the full article at the link above. I wonder if this could happen in the UK? Might be difficult to legislate I think.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...2/18/wsaf18.xml

More in the full article at the link above. I wonder if this could happen in the UK? Might be difficult to legislate I think.

Totally different in the UK where the government is predominately white/anglo

In SA the goverment is black and this sounds like a bit of payback to the people that have boomed the SA property market over the last 5 years

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Totally different in the UK where the government is predominately white/anglo

In SA the goverment is black and this sounds like a bit of payback to the people that have boomed the SA property market over the last 5 years

This looks like the beginning of something nasty - Zimbabwe mark 2

Edited by Flick

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This looks like the beginning of something nasty - Zimbabwe mark 2

The proposed rules are based on nationality rather than race. And to me it seems a sensible idea to restrict foreigners from buying property, if the foreigners are driving up property prices and making it more difficult for locals to purchase. We should have a similar system in parts of rural England where there's a housing shortage. Non-residents of the area (not just foreigners) shouldn't be allowed to buy unless they have an economic reason - for example getting a job in the area.

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I lived in SA for 12 years. I think there is a tinge of Zimbabwe in this move.

I wonder how quickly they'll back-track after their property crash. Stuff like this just spooks investors - something SA does not need at the moment.

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No. This country has an anglo saxon neo facist government. They are right wing and believe in the free ownership of private property above all else. I very much doubt a single one of them has read Das Capital. Unlike most of the members of the South African government. Maggie T and Ronald R resisted embargos like mad because it wasn't in the British or American corporate financial interest. So a few million black people got to live as slaves in their own country. This is the new roman empire. During apartheidt the only guys that would support them were the Soviets (and Oz had a pretty good embargo, but not much in the way of guns!). And let face it, you want to know more about your friends. So the ownership of private property is on the agenda 20 years later. Vietnam could have been a social democracy if the Americans had engaged with Ho Chi Minh. But politics isn't about long games, its about who your mates are.

Any changes to the British free for all would limit corporate capital which would limit Cherie Blairs cudos, which would limit her speaking engagements.

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If the news is correct and foreigners are banned from purchasing houses, there is a chance investor/ speculators will stop buying houses. Which could lead on to crash. News like this hopefully should make some of the speculators here also think about the future of housing market and the possibility of crash.

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I saw a programme recently "Pay off your mortgage in 2 years" where one of the things they were looking at to do this was to buy speculative property in Turkey (I know that taking on another mortgage sounds like a bad way of paying off a mortgage), they said that prices had gone way up since it became legal for foreigners to buy property 3 Years ago.

I thought when I was watching it they must be mad to buy a property there as the law could be so easily reversed and they might face a forced sale at a knocked down price, it was stupid for them to compare what they could by in SE England with something in Turkey since they can definitely keep the house in England, plus she can't live full-time in Turkey.

Another thing that annoyed me about the program was they said the property was worth so much, say 200,000 and her mortgage was worth 75,000 so she had bought so many percent of the house, she might actually have only payed of a tenner of what she paid and the apparent proportion payed-off was caused by the house price rise. Needless to say she didn't pay off her mortgage in 2 years.

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I lived in SA for 12 years. I think there is a tinge of Zimbabwe in this move.

Of the people I've spoken to in SA, and quite reasonable people I might add, they've long been expecting a repeat of Zimbabwe. There is tacit support of Mugabe by SA, they supply the majority of electricity and increasing amounts of grain, without them the lights would go out and Mugabe wouldn't be there. We should remember that despite 800% inflation, trashing of the economy, the ability to become a millionare in Zimbabwe for less than £5 and despite the fact most of his countrymen can't stand his guts (regardless of race) people in other parts of Africa regard him as some form of hero because of his constant reference to Blair or whatever straw man he chooses to divert attention.

Edited by BuyingBear

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this is the real danger...

if the government imposed a moratorium, they would be prevented from selling their properties - including private houses - for the duration of the freeze.

that's gotta hurt if you're looking to sell.

Still on the whole well done to SA for considering their own citizens over foreigners. Many blacks are little better off housing wise than they were under apartheid.

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This will not happen in the UK.

I suspect it might contravene EU freedom of movement rules to prevent a citizen from another member state from buying a place in the UK.

Ironically, though, it would be perfectly legal in EU terms to discriminate between UK citizens, for example banning English people from buying in Scotland. In fact I believe there are already some small pockets of the UK which have such rules, e.g. the New Forest.

frugalista

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The proposed rules are based on nationality rather than race. And to me it seems a sensible idea to restrict foreigners from buying property, if the foreigners are driving up property prices and making it more difficult for locals to purchase. We should have a similar system in parts of rural England where there's a housing shortage. Non-residents of the area (not just foreigners) shouldn't be allowed to buy unless they have an economic reason - for example getting a job in the area.

I think you'll find the 99.9% of 'foreigners' that have bought in Cape Town happen to be white

Likewise the real boom areas will have benefited SA whites far more than SA blacks

Hence for Mbeki, its a double whammy - stuff up whites (Local and Foreign) and offer a great excuse/distraction for his goverment

Sorry all you poor blacks that are still living in inexcusable poverty, regardless of the fact we have been in power (ANC) since 1994

Its not our fault, its still the nasty white man to blame, look at what he has done to our property prices!

this is the real danger...

that's gotta hurt if you're looking to sell.

Still on the whole well done to SA for considering their own citizens over foreigners. Many blacks are little better off housing wise than they were under apartheid.

I agree with the above, in fact some blacks seem to be worse off under this new 'black government'

wonder if its got anything to do with corruption (Deputy PM facing charges), buying luxury private jets and rather expensive holidays???

Edited by 88Crash

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firstly there is no logic for high property prices in SA based on shortages of anything.

there is huge amounts of land, cheap building materials and lots of labour who will be glad to lay bricks, plaster etc.

this must be another bubble.

it is easy to blame the foreign owners of 2nd homes but it doesnt wash- typical smoke screen.

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Though there is no shortage of land in SA, neither is there a shortage in the UK. There is a shortage in the 'right' places - i.e. location, location, location.

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Of the people I've spoken to in SA, and quite reasonable people I might add, they've long been expecting a repeat of Zimbabwe. There is tacit support of Mugabe by SA, they supply the majority of electricity and increasing amounts of grain, without them the lights would go out and Mugabe wouldn't be there. We should remember that despite 800% inflation, trashing of the economy, the ability to become a millionare in Zimbabwe for less than £5 and despite the fact most of his countrymen can't stand his guts (regardless of race) people in other parts of Africa regard him as some form of hero because of his constant reference to Blair or whatever straw man he chooses to divert attention.

I doubt it would kick off while Nelson Mandela is still there out of respect for him and his influence, but he is quite old now and will probably die within the next decade. Why white people remain in SA is a mystery. The writing is on the wall for them.

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Why white people remain in SA is a mystery.

Because many of them have nowhere else to go? It's not as though they can just get on a plane and move abroad... even if it becomes another Zimbabwe I doubt a Labour government would allow them to come here as refugees.

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Yes, many white south africans are there for several generations - where are they to go? Many still enjoy living there - and many who have come to live in Europe, have gone back with no regrets. It's not that bad of a place. There is alot of opportunity for the right individual.

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I think you'll find the 99.9% of 'foreigners' that have bought in Cape Town happen to be white

Likewise the real boom areas will have benefited SA whites far more than SA blacks

Hence for Mbeki, its a double whammy - stuff up whites (Local and Foreign) and offer a great excuse/distraction for his goverment

Sorry all you poor blacks that are still living in inexcusable poverty, regardless of the fact we have been in power (ANC) since 1994

Its not our fault, its still the nasty white man to blame, look at what he has done to our property prices!

I agree with the above, in fact some blacks seem to be worse off under this new 'black government'

wonder if its got anything to do with corruption (Deputy PM facing charges), buying luxury private jets and rather expensive holidays???

Well in their defence, the only difference between them and us is that they actually charge their politician. In Britain they just find ways to make it legal for politicians to put their snouts in the trough.

Mind you Mandela was the first and last great politician of the late 20th Century. After that it was always going to slide back down to skin colour based partisanism in SA.

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Yes, many white south africans are there for several generations - where are they to go? Many still enjoy living there - and many who have come to live in Europe, have gone back with no regrets. It's not that bad of a place. There is alot of opportunity for the right individual.

A lot go into farming in Australia and New Zealand, older richer whites have been retired and just seem to hang around, one wonders why.

Anyone fancy farming, it's like the CPRE but with guns :)

Edited by BuyingBear

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I doubt it would kick off while Nelson Mandela is still there out of respect for him and his influence, but he is quite old now and will probably die within the next decade. Why white people remain in SA is a mystery. The writing is on the wall for them.

This is something I've heard multiple times in South Africa and I think it's probably correct. As soon as Mandela snuffs it, it will be Zimbabwe 2.0.

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I saw a programme recently "Pay off your mortgage in 2 years" where one of the things they were looking at to do this was to buy speculative property in Turkey (I know that taking on another mortgage sounds like a bad way of paying off a mortgage), they said that prices had gone way up since it became legal for foreigners to buy property 3 Years ago.

I thought when I was watching it they must be mad to buy a property there as the law could be so easily reversed and they might face a forced sale at a knocked down price, it was stupid for them to compare what they could by in SE England with something in Turkey since they can definitely keep the house in England, plus she can't live full-time in Turkey.

This could become a good foreign income earner for some countries. They liberalise their foreign ownership laws, and foreign investors start buying property. Prices rise, and more foreign investors follow the heard. Property booms, and foreign ownership incrases, with many locals selling their houses to foreigners.

After a few years of this, the government suddenly starts announcing that this property boom has priced out locals, and that there are many other unwelcome effects of foreign investment, including high foreign ownership of property rented to tourists, which is damaging the country's income from tourism. They change the laws significantly restricting foreign ownership of property, giving all owners who do not meet the tighter laws 6 months to sell their properties or they will be confiscated and sold at auction. A property crash ensues as foreign investors panic sell their properties. So locals buy back the properties that they sold at boom prices at crash prices. The net difference being a financial gain for the country.

I'm not 100% serious here.

Billy Shears

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A property crash ensues as foreign investors panic sell their properties. So locals buy back the properties that they sold at boom prices at crash prices. The net difference being a financial gain for the country.

Then your local currency collapses and your dollar demoninated debt kills the economy and inward investment, see Argentina.

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This will not happen in the UK.

However, I am laughing myself silly at all those media types who have bought in SA in recent years. Poor Graham Norton - didn't he buy a spread out there?

it doesn't apply to people who aready own freehold

Edited by *sparkle*

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it doesn't apply to people who aready own freehold

It will affect freehold if they can't sell if/until the new laws are imposed

If you bought freehold, say 5 years ago in Clifton or one of the nice Cape Town beach areas, it has probably trebled in value

How much has that place just dropped in the last 24 hours?

Add to that the Zim factor, the new SA government certainly supports uncle Bob, maybe they have plans to follow suit?

They certainly don't seem to like whites and they certainly don't care about poor blacks, so nothing much to stop them really

Like a few people have pointed out, when Mandela goes, there will certainly be some nervousness

PS I think a lot of the whites in Zim also had freehold

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