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The Torygraph Gets Very Bearish

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Some bear food:

Stop breaking backs on debt mountain

"...For all his optimism, Mr King is well aware of the potential crisis facing him. The risk is if he cuts rates again, the public will become more indebted, worsening the consumer slowdown when rates eventually rise. But so long as inflation remains close to its 2pc target, he cannot justify lifting rates to cut our addiction to debt. If consumer spending remains weak, the worst action would be to cut rates immediately.

The Bank is well aware of this, but so long as its job is specifically to keep inflation on target, not to target asset prices or debt, its hands are tied. Its remit should be changed to allow it to prevent such a debt mountain ever forming again."

Nightmare on High St

"High street stores have suffered their worst start to the year since records were first kept in 1945.

Figures issued by the Government yesterday showed that retail sales crumbled last month - the latest evidence that many families have been crippled by record debt...."

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Until they start properly including internet sales then these high street reports / surveys are usless. I do most of my shopping online i.e. cds. dvds, electronic items, some clothes. All my christmas presents were bought online.

And my parents both 66 have started to buy a lot online as well including a recent lcd tv. The high street is dead especially as you can buy most of the stuff cheaper in Tescos anyway.

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The Bank is well aware of this, but so long as its job is specifically to keep inflation on target, not to target asset prices or debt, its hands are tied. Its remit should be changed to allow it to prevent such a debt mountain ever forming again."

Correct. However, I think that they could justify this course of action, i.e. let inflation undershoot to maintain long-term stability?

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I read some numbers on this the other day - can't remember where or what they were - only that my reaction was 'so - internet sales are still tiny compared to normal retail sales.' As such the idea that there is no slow-down in consumer spending because the money is being spent on the internet does not appear to hold too much water.

It amazes me that there is a general belief that the reason people are not buying stuff at the moment is that (presumably) they are crippled by high interest payments on their existing debt. Cut interest rates and give them more to spend.

Weird, interest rates are historically very low yet people are crippled by the repayments?

Why not cut tax and give people more to spend?

You can say what you like about the Tories, and I would agree with most of it, but the simple fact is that an economy which allows people to keep as much as possible of their salary - so they decide how to spend it - is far more efficient at creating wealth than one where the government takes as much as it can and spends it for you.

This lot have increased the tax take by some amazing amount - and now the country is crippled by debt.

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You can say what you like about the Tories, and I would agree with most of it, but the simple fact is that an economy which allows people to keep as much as possible of their salary - so they decide how to spend it - is far more efficient at creating wealth than one where the government takes as much as it can and spends it for you.

This lot have increased the tax take by some amazing amount - and now the country is crippled by debt.

Agree totally. This Govt is trying to turn us into a nanny state

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Until they start properly including internet sales then these high street reports / surveys are usless. I do most of my shopping online i.e. cds. dvds, electronic items, some clothes. All my christmas presents were bought online.

And my parents both 66 have started to buy a lot online as well including a recent lcd tv. The high street is dead especially as you can buy most of the stuff cheaper in Tescos anyway.

Recessions have never been caused so much by a lack of money as by the money going elsewhere.

shops struggling against Internet suppliers still have staff and profits..

Strange that every recession since the war has followed a period of rapid house price inflation.. and never the other way round..

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Agree totally. This Govt is trying to turn us into a nanny state

All low taxes do is create a two tier society, which is pleasant for no one. Least of all the rich, penned into gated compounds. I would pay more tax quite happily. I think less of a pay differential in this country would be a good thing. I am not suggesting that we all become Scandinavians, but the ethos of conspicuous wealth being frowned upon is no bad thing.

Edited by jellybean

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I would pay more tax quite happily.

So you keep saying. Do you think you'd get good value for the extra money you'd pay? Do you think you get good value now?

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So you keep saying. Do you think you'd get good value for the extra money you'd pay? Do you think you get good value now?

I wouldn,t pay anymore all it would do is create a load more Goverment jobs for wasters fuel a chav baby fest and reassure more immigrants to land on our shores for the inevitable handout.

Socialism sucks.

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Where i get lost is with this coutries obsession with getting everyone to spend money. I was speaking to a phone banker about bad debts, he felt that people have to spend to keep the economy going. Perhaps i am thick but isnt the idea of an economy fueled by spending pretty much a perpetual motion machine? I don't understand much of this economist talk but surely to bring real wealth into a country you need to have good exports?!? Perhaps someone could point me to an idiots guide or something..?

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Where i get lost is with this coutries obsession with getting everyone to spend money. I was speaking to a phone banker about bad debts, he felt that people have to spend to keep the economy going. Perhaps i am thick but isnt the idea of an economy fueled by spending pretty much a perpetual motion machine? I don't understand much of this economist talk but surely to bring real wealth into a country you need to have good exports?!? Perhaps someone could point me to an idiots guide or something..?

ROTFL....we have nothing to export, perhaps we could export credit and screw up every other economy also have we done that yet?

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I would quite happily pay more tax?! :o:o

You have been for years....What else makes the UK tax burden higher than Germany? Is out society still tiered? Yes siree :P

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So you keep saying. Do you think you'd get good value for the extra money you'd pay? Do you think you get good value now?

Yes, pretty good. Here in the Borders, the local hospital is first rate, the street's are clean and most of the schools and roads are not to bad. Far better than the grinding poverty in some of the rural area's of the US I have been in. Stop bitching. I, for one am sicking of the same tierd Torry whinge fest. Nany state. WTF is that. You are like a stuck record.

Edited by jellybean

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ROTFL....we have nothing to export, perhaps we could export credit and screw up every other economy also have we done that yet?

So how does this country actually make money?

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Yes, pretty good. Here in the Borders, the local hospital is first rate, the street's are clean and most of the schools and roads are not to bad. Far better than the grinding poverty in some of the rural area's of the US I have been in. Stop bitching. I, for one am sicking of the same tierd Torry whinge fest. Nany state. WTF is that. You are like a stuck record.

Did you know a basic rate taxpayer 'enjoys' a marginal income tax rate of over 40% when you include national insurance? Someone working for minimum wage should pay far less tax than they do at the moment.

Regarding nanny state, how about:

Freedom of speech

Identity cards

Car numberplate tracking

Pet's bill of rights

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Did you know a basic rate taxpayer 'enjoys' a marginal income tax rate of over 40% when you include national insurance? Someone working for minimum wage should pay far less tax than they do at the moment.

Regarding nanny state, how about:

Freedom of speech

Identity cards

Car numberplate tracking

Pet's bill of rights

Well I am a higher rate tax payer and would gladly pay more to raise a few out of poverty. Yes, the lower payed should pay less, but the higher payed, like myself, should pay more.

Exactly. But I did not vote for Blair. As far as I am concerned he is just as crazy as you're average right w(h)inger.

Personally, I find the more liberal members of the conservative party more appealing than the current shower. With the exception of Blunket and a few others.

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So how does this country actually make money?

You tell me its something I have been stumped on for some time, for example we make good racing cars, and we have fashion and the music industry as products we exel at but apart from specific specialised industrys I do not know?. For mass goods labour is cheaper elsewhere and exertise has caught up and surpassed in some cases (lets cite the car industry as a classic example). Even our much vaunted service industry is slowly being shipped abroad I should know I work in IT and banking seems to be leading the way too (read credit suisse 1000 jobs to go US/UK)? However the fact that the nations credit debt which stands a shade off 1.2 trillion pounds is now larger than the GDP would I think indicate how our economy has been so bouyant in recent times, its been paid for by the consumer and when that stops I think we should all be rather concerned.

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Yes, pretty good. Here in the Borders, the local hospital is first rate, the street's are clean and most of the schools and roads are not to bad. Far better than the grinding poverty in some of the rural area's of the US I have been in. Stop bitching. I, for one am sicking of the same tierd Torry whinge fest. Nany state. WTF is that. You are like a stuck record.

I don't recall bitching about the "Nany state" (sic) so I'm not sure what you mean about stuck record. Do you mean me specifically, or HPC posters in general? If the latter I think you've been adequately answered by other members of this forum. If the former I would respectfully suggest you're talking hysterical b0ll0cks. As for the "Torry whinge fest" (sic) I think I made it clear to you on another thread that I have no affection for the Conservative party, especially as I remember their last period in power.

It might be hunky-dory where you live. I can assure you it isn't down here (West Midlands). The hospital near my parents will do their level best to kill you even if you check in with something relatively minor. The roads are dreadful and the streets covered in a mixture of seagull droppings and chewing gum. For the record I work in the public sector and the amount of money I see wasted on crack pot projects and non-jobs beggars belief. I accept we all have to pay tax, but the way things are at the moment, we're being ripped off.

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Well I am a higher rate tax payer and would gladly pay more to raise a few out of poverty. Yes, the lower payed should pay less, but the higher payed, like myself, should pay more.

Exactly. But I did not vote for Blair. As far as I am concerned he is just as crazy as you're average right w(h)inger.

Personally, I find the more liberal members of the conservative party more appealing than the current shower. With the exception of Blunket and a few others.

So am I and so would I......if it went to help raise people out of poverty, honourable thinking.

I do not trust the Goverment any Goverment would honour your opinion hence I am reluctant to pay them a higher band of tax.

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So am I and so would I......if it went to help raise people out of poverty, honourable thinking.

I do not trust the Goverment any Goverment would honour your opinion hence I am reluctant to pay them a higher band of tax.

What pay more tax to get people out of poverty? Why not cut out the middleman and use your money to finance charitable projects yourself?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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