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1000's Top City Of London Jobs May Go--breaking News

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http://news.hereisthecity.com/news/business_news/5279.cntns

The Daily Telegraph reports that up to 1,000 investment banking jobs are likely to go overseas as Credit Suisse pushes forward with the 'One-Bank' initiative, and outsources jobs to India to save on costs.

Here is the full article:

http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.j.../16/ixcity.html

Hundreds of staff at the bank's Canary Wharf headquarters in London and at offices across New York could be affected by the move.

Don't spend those bonuses too quick!! :D

Edited by Realistbear

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Reading more in depth it says these are IT jobs that may be axed.

There are probably loads of back office jobs that could go too. When I worked in the City one of the main skills seemed to be Excel. Sure, these were highly educated risk management people, but they seemed to spend all day with spreadsheets....

Oh, and being a self centered, heartless **** seemed to be a bonus too. Must be why I didn't last long :)

Be lucky.

Frank

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This has been happening for quite a while, noticeable for at least three years. I know Morgan Stanley, Goldman, Deutsche, HSBC and JPMorgan (doubtless others too) all have their own sites there, and many of them use Indian suppliers too. This has already affected thousaands, mainly in the IT/back office/equity research space, will affect many thousands more, and will I believe also work its way further up the food chain.

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Many on this site will doubtless think 'serves them right' but the impact on UK PLC will be significant. London tax revenues subsidise the rest of the country. If you want the armageddon scenario, it is that the numbers employed in individual banks in London fall low enough that banks can easily move their European HQ/trading functions altogether if the tax/crime/standard of living stuff looks bad enough.

My old employer, one of the big US names, was based in Paris until the mid 70s, left there altogether and HQed in London only because of the loony socialist and tax regime (must have been bad given the UK at that time). They have over 6000 in London, did reopen in Paris years later, but only in the low hundreds there. The Eurobond market arose only because the US messed up in their regime. London is the biggest FX market in the world - but there is not much that is special about doing FX. This is quite a volatile industry.

Gordon has tiptoed round City issues - even he knows that getting this wrong will be catastrophic, but outsourcing started because there were too many people with no-too-special skills earning too much, and it has its own dynamic now.

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There are probably loads of back office jobs that could go too. When I worked in the City one of the main skills seemed to be Excel. Sure, these were highly educated risk management people, but they seemed to spend all day with spreadsheets....

Oh, and being a self centered, heartless **** seemed to be a bonus too. Must be why I didn't last long :)

Be lucky.

Frank

Well, I am the last person to defend city-boy banker pr1cks, who can all rot in hell IMO, but I do have to say, Excel is a very powerful tool IF you know how to use it properly. It is not just for monkeys to add up on...it can be very powerful, what with VBA etc. etc. (not as powerful as MATLAB though - and I am sure they use that in the city too, seeing as there is a financial toolbox available for it).

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Well, I am the last person to defend city-boy banker pr1cks, who can all rot in hell IMO, but I do have to say, Excel is a very powerful tool IF you know how to use it properly. It is not just for monkeys to add up on...it can be very powerful, what with VBA etc. etc. (not as powerful as MATLAB though - and I am sure they use that in the city too, seeing as there is a financial toolbox available for it).

You are giving many too much credit - they do not use Excel's full functionality (and so what if they did) and they are not that bright or that knowledgeable in the business they support. Expendable.

However for others, you give too little credit. Excel is only a means to an end, and what they are useful for is their understanding of say markets, customers, risk, regulations. Expendable, but much tougher to get their function moved.

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You are giving many too much credit - they do not use Excel's full functionality (and so what if they did) and they are not that bright or that knowledgeable in the business they support. Expendable.

However for others, you give too little credit. Excel is only a means to an end, and what they are useful for is their understanding of say markets, customers, risk, regulations. Expendable, but much tougher to get their function moved.

Yeah excel is great. As long as you only want to work with 65k rows!!

It really is very limited for any real analysis.

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You are giving many too much credit - they do not use Excel's full functionality (and so what if they did) and they are not that bright or that knowledgeable in the business they support. Expendable.

However for others, you give too little credit. Excel is only a means to an end, and what they are useful for is their understanding of say markets, customers, risk, regulations. Expendable, but much tougher to get their function moved.

Quite possibly...I am sure the range of types in the city encompasses nobbers who don't know the first thing but the right people, and very smart Joes who are way cleverer than I am, hands down.

Yeah excel is great. As long as you only want to work with 65k rows!!

It really is very limited for any real analysis.

Well I guess you could say so if you are dealing with very large arrays of data...yes, it is obviously not going to be able to do CFD or anything heavy. BUUUUT, if you want to rapidly develop an approach to a problem, automate certain things, and lay it all out in pretty colours to help you along, then it is pretty good IMO.

Although I think nothing beats MATLAB, nothing even gets close, when it comes to a generic tool. Matlab rules.

This is me directly rebelling against knobbly-ended nerd purists who sneer at anyone who doesn't use shell scripts, awk, sed or whatever else in UNIX (oh, and produce all their documents in latex)...and believe me I've known a few. You know who you are!

To put all this rubbish in perspective, a girlfriend is much better than UNIX, bash, Excel, Matlab or any of that stuff! :)

Edited by marko

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I did a 6 month IT contract at an investment bank and it was the most miserable time of my entire life. I arrived on the IT floor to discover that the only non-whites working there at the time were British Indians - the cry to get their attention used by some of the white male staff used to be "Oi you! Shit for brains!". It was disgustingly racist IMPO.

The chap of Indian descent who I sat opposite was suffering constant asthma problems and was obviously freaked out as his boss piled work onto him and he was referred to by the above insult. As soon as I heard him called that I had it out with my 'boss' there and then and knew that my days were number - I would leave as soon as I could anyhow - as the place was full of little cliques. I've never come across such arrogance before or since in my entire life.

I took the British Indian guy out to lunch, made him buy a mobile phone, told him to email my agents and within 24 hours he had been found a better job elsewhere. He is now quite wealthy after having contracted non-stop around the World for about 8 years - odd, his asthma has gone completely apparently.

The girl who sat next to me was dating a banker - the first thing she asked me when I met her was if I wanted to see her engagement ring, at which point she held up a 50K ring. Each morning she would come into work and the first thing she would do would be to visit the prozac website and do the little quiz they had on there to decide whether she needed prozac or not. She was paly with the IT section boss because he wanted to be in with the banker and all she did each and every day was ring up London EAs and arrange to visit very expensive houses. At one point she was discussing having a floor removed or added on some Georgian House. She got a big bonus that year.

The canteen - if you could call it a canteen - was amazing. It was full of Brits of West Indian descent - i.e. these were mostly the kitchen staff - and they had a person to serve you toast or a crossiant or whatever, a second person to ask you if you wanted butter or spread on it and a third who would then put jam or marmite, etc, on it for you. I laughed at this and commented, on my first day, that I could butter and jam my own toast. Later that day I was called into an office and 'given a ticking off' for having had a conversation "with the help". I kid you not.

There used to be regular stream of gorgeous PAs in and out of the building. Apparently the bankers used to ring up temp agencies and say things like "I don't care what she can do aslong as she has great legs and is blonde!". The number of leggy, perfectly formed bonde PAs was amazing. The bankers used to spend a fortune on them - a fortune to you and I but not to them - and the girls would fall for it convinced that this man loved them. They would get a few months of expensive gifts, holidays and then, inevitably, they would be given a big bunch of roses and told they were no longer wanted. You used to regularly see these gorgeous looking women running out of the building in tears whilst clutching a big bunch of flowers.

My last week arrived and I could not wait to leave. My 'boss' then played the card he had been wanting to play the past 6 months - he refused to sign my timesheet and I lost a week's money. Stupidly, his boss was coming over for a presentation the following Monday and the presentation was dependent upon IT kit that I owned and was lending him. So, when he refused to sign my timesheet I gathered up my kit and walked. I was sitting on the train in Paddington when the moron rang me in a panic wanting to know what was going on. To which I replied:

"Not my problem mate!"

No doubt there are many good people working there. To this day the 6 months I spent there were the most miserable of my life.

You are giving many too much credit - they do not use Excel's full functionality (and so what if they did) and they are not that bright or that knowledgeable in the business they support. Expendable.

Believe it or not but there is a Council in the UK whose entire traffic light system is actually operated by an excel spreadsheet containing a ridiculous number of macros.

Edited by The Masked Tulip

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I did a 6 month IT contract at Credit Suisse and it was the most miserable time of my entire life. I arrived on the IT floor to discover that the only non-whites working there at the time were British Indians - the cry to get their attention used by some of the white male staff used to be "Oi you! Shit for brains!". It was disgustingly racist IMPO.

The chap of Indian descent who I sat opposite was suffering constant asthma problems and was obviously freaked out as his boss piled work onto him and he was referred to by the above insult. As soon as I heard him called that I had it out with my 'boss' there and then and knew that my days were number - I would leave as soon as I could anyhow - as the place was full of little cliques. I've never come across such arrogance before or since in my entire life.

I took the British Indian guy out to lunch, made him buy a mobile phone, told him to email my agents and within 24 hours he had been found a better job elsewhere. He is now quite wealthy after having contracted non-stop around the World for about 8 years - odd, his asthma has gone completely apparently.

The girl who sat next to me was dating a banker - the first thing she asked me when I met her was if I wanted to see her engagement ring, at which point she held up a 50K ring. Each morning she would come into work and the first thing she would do would be to visit the prozac website and do the little quiz they had on there to decide whether she needed prozac or not. She was paly with the IT section boss because he wanted to be in with the banker and all she did each and every day was ring up London EAs and arrange to visit very expensive houses. At one point she was discussing having a floor removed or added on some Georgian House. She got a big bonus that year.

The canteen - if you could call it a canteen - was amazing. It was full of Brits of West Indian descent - i.e. these were mostly the kitchen staff - and they had a person to serve you toast or a crossiant or whatever, a second person to ask you if you wanted butter or spread on it and a third who would then put jam or marmite, etc, on it for you. I laughed at this and commented, on my first day, that I could butter and jam my own toast. Later that day I was called into an office and 'given a ticking off' for having had a conversation "with the help". I kid you not.

There used to be regular stream of gorgeous PAs in and out of the building. Apparently the bankers used to ring up temp agencies and say things like "I don't care what she can do aslong as she has great legs and is blonde!". The number of leggy, perfectly formed bonde PAs was amazing. The bankers used to spend a fortune on them - a fortune to you and I but not to them - and the girls would fall for it convinced that this man loved them. They would get a few months of expensive gifts, holidays and then, inevitably, they would be given a big bunch of roses and told they were no longer wanted. You used to regularly see these gorgeous looking women running out of the building in tears whilst clutching a big bunch of flowers.

My last week arrived and I could not wait to leave. My 'boss' then played the card he had been wanting to play the past 6 months - he refused to sign my timesheet and I lost a week's money. Stupidly, his boss was coming over for a presentation the following Monday and the presentation was dependent upon IT kit that I owned and was lending him. So, when he refused to sign my timesheet I gathered up my kit and walked. I was sitting on the train in Paddington when the moron rang me in a panic wanting to know what was going on. To which I replied:

"Not my problem mate!"

No doubt there are many good people working there. To this day the 6 months I spent there were the most miserable of my life.

Believe it or not but there is a Council in the UK whose entire traffic light system is actually operated by an excel spreadsheet containing a ridiculous number of macros.

Masked,

Good grief your story about working in the city almost sounds like a parody: it satisfies every one of my preconceptions about the arrogant, awful pr1ick monsters who work there. I kind of hope that you are telling the truth because it means my views are not without merit.

I don't really doubt that it is true though - I know a few city types, and they are generally awful pr1ck-wagons the type of which would disgust and appal right-minded folk. Braying, spoilt idiots with no conception of the five-aces hand life has dealt them. Awful.

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Masked,

Good grief your story about working in the city almost sounds like a parody: it satisfies every one of my preconceptions about the arrogant, awful pr1ick monsters who work there. I kind of hope that you are telling the truth because it means my views are not without merit.

I don't really doubt that it is true though - I know a few city types, and they are generally awful pr1ck-wagons the type of which would disgust and appal right-minded folk. Braying, spoilt idiots with no conception of the five-aces hand life has dealt them. Awful.

I wonder if Alan "Big Al" Sugar would be among these?

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Masked,

Good grief your story about working in the city almost sounds like a parody: it satisfies every one of my preconceptions about the arrogant, awful pr1ick monsters who work there. I kind of hope that you are telling the truth because it means my views are not without merit.

I don't really doubt that it is true though - I know a few city types, and they are generally awful pr1ck-wagons the type of which would disgust and appal right-minded folk. Braying, spoilt idiots with no conception of the five-aces hand life has dealt them. Awful.

Because I have worked in IT in the City I now get calls constantly from IT agents trying to get me to go and work in the numerous investment banks. They offer me silly daily rates. For many IT people it is the Holy Grail of IT to get a contract in an investment bank as the money is out of this world and the contracts usually roll over year after year.

Frankly, for all the money on the planet I would not go back and work in one of those places. I found the City to be completely and utterly, IMPO, Souless. Until you experience pure greed and pure capitalism face to face you really have no understanding of how awful it is and how people do indeed sell their Souls for money and greed.

I know an IT guy who has chased money all over the place during the past 15 years and for those 15 years he has been trying to get a contract in Docklands at a bank. He finally did so about 3 months ago and now he too is as miserable as sin.

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I wonder if Alan "Big Al" Sugar would be among these?

No way, I think it is clear he is a good businessman. Good grief you don't build up something like Amstrad without a lot of acumen etc. I respect people like this (though maybe they appear brash sometimes...for example I think Donald Trump is an idiot - how can he be so rich but still not afford a decent hair-piece!?)

Richard Branson rules, and is generally very popular I think. I have never had a problem with business-people who make it happen...fair balls to them.

I am referring to the types who have gotten jobs on the basis of daddy's connections: believe me, they are not an anacronism, they exist. I know one personally who whilst a pointless nobber who never did a days in his life, is now a director for a syndicate in Lloyds...he is 32!!! The reason for his 'success'?.....Papa.

I am also referring to the sort of 'Masters of the Universe' type (Bonfire of the Vanities) who literally hold the opinion that their God-given position in this world is sitting on the backs of other people.

Mind you, I also know another guy who codes Java there, and he is as mild-mannered and nice a bloke as you could meet, so of course there are all sorts. But generally speaking, the city attracts people of a certain 'individualistic' nature.

C**ts in other words.

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But generally speaking, the city attracts people of a certain 'individualistic' nature.

C**ts in other words.

perhaps. But does the city draw c**ts like flies to dung, or does the city make c**ts out of previously non-c**tish people?

In my dealings with the aforementioned firm, I would confirm that their attitude is aggressive, bullying and generally offhand. Perhaps when they heard my regional accent.

I exist on the fringes of the city and I find it a largely insipid and vacuous place. Some people encourage me to dive in and triple my wage, but I prefer to retain at least a little portion of my soul. Even if it means I have to wait a while longer for a house :)

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perhaps. But does the city draw c**ts like flies to dung, or does the city make c**ts out of previously non-c**tish people?

In my dealings with the aforementioned firm, I would confirm that their attitude is aggressive, bullying and generally offhand. Perhaps when they heard my regional accent.

I exist on the fringes of the city and I find it a largely insipid and vacuous place. Some people encourage me to dive in and triple my wage, but I prefer to retain at least a little portion of my soul. Even if it means I have to wait a while longer for a house :)

Probably a bit of both. I can imagine the environment definitely builds upon an already existing character of C**tiness.

I remember hearing about the protests in the city that happened a few years ago: apparently some of the bigger tw@ts in the office blocks photocopied £50 notes and then threw the photocopies down amongst the crowd to incense the crowd further. What wonderful characters they must have been.

Presumably they did not realise how close their actions were to what they do everyday anyway: i.e. just print money out of nothing (though of course they then don't give it to people, they lend it).

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I did a 6 month IT contract at Credit Suisse and it was the most miserable time of my entire life. I arrived on the IT floor to discover that the only non-whites working there at the time were British Indians - the cry to get their attention used by some of the white male staff used to be "Oi you! Shit for brains!". It was disgustingly racist IMPO.

The chap of Indian descent who I sat opposite was suffering constant asthma problems and was obviously freaked out as his boss piled work onto him and he was referred to by the above insult. As soon as I heard him called that I had it out with my 'boss' there and then and knew that my days were number - I would leave as soon as I could anyhow - as the place was full of little cliques. I've never come across such arrogance before or since in my entire life.

I took the British Indian guy out to lunch, made him buy a mobile phone, told him to email my agents and within 24 hours he had been found a better job elsewhere. He is now quite wealthy after having contracted non-stop around the World for about 8 years - odd, his asthma has gone completely apparently.

The girl who sat next to me was dating a banker - the first thing she asked me when I met her was if I wanted to see her engagement ring, at which point she held up a 50K ring. Each morning she would come into work and the first thing she would do would be to visit the prozac website and do the little quiz they had on there to decide whether she needed prozac or not. She was paly with the IT section boss because he wanted to be in with the banker and all she did each and every day was ring up London EAs and arrange to visit very expensive houses. At one point she was discussing having a floor removed or added on some Georgian House. She got a big bonus that year.

The canteen - if you could call it a canteen - was amazing. It was full of Brits of West Indian descent - i.e. these were mostly the kitchen staff - and they had a person to serve you toast or a crossiant or whatever, a second person to ask you if you wanted butter or spread on it and a third who would then put jam or marmite, etc, on it for you. I laughed at this and commented, on my first day, that I could butter and jam my own toast. Later that day I was called into an office and 'given a ticking off' for having had a conversation "with the help". I kid you not.

There used to be regular stream of gorgeous PAs in and out of the building. Apparently the bankers used to ring up temp agencies and say things like "I don't care what she can do aslong as she has great legs and is blonde!". The number of leggy, perfectly formed bonde PAs was amazing. The bankers used to spend a fortune on them - a fortune to you and I but not to them - and the girls would fall for it convinced that this man loved them. They would get a few months of expensive gifts, holidays and then, inevitably, they would be given a big bunch of roses and told they were no longer wanted. You used to regularly see these gorgeous looking women running out of the building in tears whilst clutching a big bunch of flowers.

My last week arrived and I could not wait to leave. My 'boss' then played the card he had been wanting to play the past 6 months - he refused to sign my timesheet and I lost a week's money. Stupidly, his boss was coming over for a presentation the following Monday and the presentation was dependent upon IT kit that I owned and was lending him. So, when he refused to sign my timesheet I gathered up my kit and walked. I was sitting on the train in Paddington when the moron rang me in a panic wanting to know what was going on. To which I replied:

"Not my problem mate!"

No doubt there are many good people working there. To this day the 6 months I spent there were the most miserable of my life.

I worked for a single City firm (not CSFB) for over 15 years from the mid 1980s, and with the exception of two of those years, really enjoyed it. Clearly I am either a **** or your experience is atypical - or maybe both. CSFB certainly had a reputation as an unpleasant place to work and as a revolving door. And it was well known that there were feuds between the bank, Credit Suisse, and CSFB, between CSFB and CSFP (while still around), between Tokyo/London/New York - need I continue. Nevertheless your story is shocking.

I did see or hear of inappropriate behaviour on the trading floors in the early days circa 85/86 (stripograms, some assistants clearly there for their attributes - but still this was not the norm), but what you describe (plus snorting coke, taking clients out to brothels) was already only legend in respect of past bond salesmen in New York in my day. Racism was present as in 'real life' - no better, no worse. It was however quite strictly dealt with when there were complaints. General bullying was another matter, and people definitely suffered if they did not stand up for themselves, or get their superiors to confront the worst offenders. This I think is the least defendable aspect of the investment banks that I know of.

It is true that connections really matter in corporate finance and that being a t*t and ludicrously arrogant is no barrier to success. But it is very rare that the ones who survive, let alone really succeed, are not both very good and very hardworking. The old boy network only counts for so much. I by the way was only ever in the back office, so this is not special pleading.

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Reading more in depth it says these are IT jobs that may be axed.

This trend IS very significant. The support roles in the city are generally well paid (range probably £30k entry level to £200k+ at director level), and more importantly they make up about 90% of the city workforce.

They are not important for the central London property market, but they are important for the London Suburbs (especially SW and W) and for a huge swathe of the home counties.

If a lot of these jobs were to move abroad (and I predict they will) the consequences would be dire for the SE property market and economy.

These people actually spend their money here. Most of the front office types (who make the really big bucks) get paid offshore and they are fewer in number. The support workers are the bedrock of the SE economy, and due to their large numbers they are essential for a huge number of additional industries (bars, restaurants, retail etc).

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So much for the Londoners Spin on this 6% rise thread!

Actually I so don't care if this bunch is outsourced its not funny. I ain't never gunna be up there so I just can't feel the solidarity :lol:

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Reading more in depth it says these are IT jobs that may be axed.

SOD IT..

lol

sorry I work in IT.. luckily my job is not going to get outsourced..

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Well, I'm a senior UNIX admin in Farringdon, but I don't work for a bank. However, if someone offered me say a 400quid per day contract, you can bet your bum I would bite their hand off, as would most people. I don't really give a toss if it's soulless or not. If they pay me a great big wad of cash I can stick it out for a couple of years.

Coming from a small company to the company I work for now, I have already seen a bit of the "****iness" of the city. To cope with it, I think you have to become one yourself (during working hours (this is another clue for coping))

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There are probably loads of back office jobs that could go too. When I worked in the City one of the main skills seemed to be Excel. Sure, these were highly educated risk management people, but they seemed to spend all day with spreadsheets....

Oh, and being a self centered, heartless **** seemed to be a bonus too. Must be why I didn't last long :)

Be lucky.

Frank

Well, it is pure madness what you say, it confirms what I have seen around me: e.g. City girl, maneging position, validating model, but she is doing excel spreadsheet all day :blink: 45K :blink::blink:

Amazing, when real brain work is going to be rewarded? Not that I am amazingy clever, but dealing with modelling I at least know the difference between analytical and numerical solution! She didn't until I told her!!

Get out of there! Give me your income and take mine!

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Well, it is pure madness what you say, it confirms what I have seen around me: e.g. City girl, maneging position, validating model, but she is doing excel spreadsheet all day :blink: 45K :blink::blink:

Amazing, when real brain work is going to be rewarded? Not that I am amazingy clever, but dealing with modelling I at least know the difference between analytical and numerical solution! She didn't until I told her!!

Get out of there! Give me your income and take mine!

Jeez don't you guys get BORED with all this spreadsheet/modelling cr@p?

Surely not the same old number crunching day in day out? There must be some life in those city jobs... musn't there?

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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