Will Russia invade Ukraine and what happens if it escalates with NATO/US getting involved

[Si1]

Russia have banned John McCain now. And he's dead anyway.

[Grayphil]

3 hours ago, shlomo said:

What are her plans for the future, this war is going to last al least 5 more years 

She genuinely doesn't know, in my company we have a few musicians who are Ukranians. I work on cruiseships, the company is keeping them onboard when their contracts finish, and they will spend 2 months on holiday for free onboard if they want.

I think it's a decent gesture, but it's not like they can be repatriated anyway.

As for the 5 years, I honestly doubt it, I think Putin is on his last legs physically, but his political position seems just as precarious

[Si1]

28 minutes ago, Grayphil said:

She genuinely doesn't know, in my company we have a few musicians who are Ukranians. I work on cruiseships, the company is keeping them onboard when their contracts finish, and they will spend 2 months on holiday for free onboard if they want.

Western Ukraine seems safe? I wonder what arrangements will be made by neighbouring Poland etc to accept such people.

28 minutes ago, Grayphil said:

I think it's a decent gesture, but it's not like they can be repatriated anyway.

As for the 5 years, I honestly doubt it, I think Putin is on his last legs physically, but his political position seems just as precarious

if Putin dies does that stop Russia doing what they're doing? I have no idea.

[Si1]

@Staffsknot - what do you think would happen in the Ukraine war, if Poo-Tin snuffed it next week?

Edited May 22, 2022 by Si1

[yelims]

On 21/05/2022 at 18:36, Flat Bear said:

Why do you think Russians, generally, have got so stupid?

I don't think its got anything to do with their education system, it has to be something else, but what?

During Soviet days being good at science or engineering or math or sport was a way to a better life in Moscow and escape from shithole regions

once ussr collapsed the best and brightest emigrated or simply died out

what was left was a world where being the most ruthless criminal is the way to top (and house in London) also the education system imploded 

Russians haven’t got stupider (some great engineers still, tho nowhere as numerous and most were born in dying days of ussr) just survival now depends on being a different type of smart

a biznezman is more respected than scientists 

being too smart in Russia gets you killed or arrested, just ask Kasparov or Navalny 

[Drat]

1 hour ago, yelims said:

being too smart in Russia gets you killed or arrested, just ask Kasparov or Navalny 

Not always. Apparently the troll farms recruit from amongst the brightest.

Woops sorry just checked, it is the dimwits and alcoholics.

[Si1]

29 minutes ago, Drat said:

Not always. Apparently the troll farms recruit from amongst the brightest.

Woops sorry just checked, it is the dimwits and alcoholics.

Leave my little Mishka alone. @rollover is a lovely person who lives happily with their domineering Babushka and pays the household bills 

[DarkHorseWaits-NoMore]

14 hours ago, rollover said:

Ukraine explained for DUMMIES

Almost nobody, in education, politics or journalism, knows about the nasty, racist roots of Ukrainian nationalism, the horrible history of the vicious Stepan Bandera, or the Kiev state’s discriminatory scorn for the Russian language. Worst of all is the widespread ignorance of the fact that President Volodymyr Zelensky, was elected on a programme of peace with Russia.

I personally have no idea what British interest is served by slavishly backing the American policy of stirring up trouble in Ukraine and goading Russia into combat.

I have mentioned here before that the first act of violence in this war was actually the Western-backed mob putsch which overthrew Ukraine’s lawful government in 2014. This was the true beginning of all the horror.

Look, I respect those who take Ukraine’s side in this war. But what I object to is the wholly one-sided nature of public opinion here. It is so bad that it is a positive disadvantage to know anything about the subject.

And it reached its peak last week when the Ukrainian defenders of the Mariupol steelworks, many of them in fact the neo-Nazis of the Azov battalion who proudly wear SS emblems on their official uniforms, surrendered.

The UK media coverage of this event strove mightily not to mention the neo-Nazis and to avoid using the word ‘surrender’. Refusal to accept such obvious reality is a sign of madness.

Daily Mail

Quote

...Not since the wild frenzy after the death of Princess Diana have I ever met such a wave of ignorant sentiment. Nobody knows anything about Ukraine. Everyone has ferocious opinions about it....

Peter Hitchens speaks from informed subject knowledge to bring some reasoned balance to the table. What is shocking is that so many of my fellow UK/Europeans can be so easily duped and played by this level of Gorbelian propaganda in the majority of our own media. He's again ringing a big phuckin alarm bell here. Apparently we have learned nothing yet.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by DarkHorseWaits-NoMore
typo

[Grayphil]

3 hours ago, Si1 said:

 

if Putin dies does that stop Russia doing what they're doing? I have no idea.

I genuinely want to believe this.

Sadly that doesn't make it true.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

4 hours ago, Grayphil said:

She genuinely doesn't know, in my company we have a few musicians who are Ukranians. I work on cruiseships, the company is keeping them onboard when their contracts finish, and they will spend 2 months on holiday for free onboard if they want.

I think it's a decent gesture, but it's not like they can be repatriated anyway.

As for the 5 years, I honestly doubt it, I think Putin is on his last legs physically, but his political position seems just as precarious

 

Good gesture by the Cruise Line.

 

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

11 hours ago, Si1 said:

Western Ukraine seems safe? I wonder what arrangements will be made by neighbouring Poland etc to accept such people.

if Putin dies does that stop Russia doing what they're doing? I have no idea.

 

I'd say yes.

Right now everyone is weighing up the personal risk of challenging Putin versus not doing so when he may soon die anyway. 

[Peter Hun]

The are thousands of officials in positions of power who are as much if not more aggressive in Russia's war on democracy. 

Thinking that Putins death will change Russia is wishful thinking. 

[Staffsknot]

12 hours ago, Si1 said:

@Staffsknot - what do you think would happen in the Ukraine war, if Poo-Tin snuffed it next week?

It depends who takes over and what they think is in their best interest.

If you get some sycophant who believes in the bosses' vision its worse as dogma won't let there even be d halt where Putin would have. If its Lavrov or someone a bit more world clued it'd be over in a few weeks I'd expect.

Its very much like the Taiwan convo we were having before juvenile rhetoric iterrupted - basically if a course is plotted by a leader and they die you sometimes end up stuck on it anyway. Each new entrant escalates the words a bit until you are inevitably stuck there.

The next thing being the one who stops it becomes the weak regime who sold out a mythical victory.

[Si1]

9 hours ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

Peter Hitchens speaks from informed subject knowledge to bring some reasoned balance to the table. What is shocking is that so many of my fellow UK/Europeans can be so easily duped and played by this level of Gorbelian propaganda in the majority of our own media. He's again ringing a big phuckin alarm bell here. Apparently we have learned nothing yet.

 

 

Yeah balanced view - based on supermarket food - fuller context of that quote - "I laughed out loud in Marks & Spencer when I found that they are now selling something called ‘Chicken Kyiv’. 

This is apparently just like their old ‘Chicken Kiev’, only with added propaganda. I am told that there is now also a ‘No Chicken Kyiv’ for vegans, without any actual chicken in it.

Not since the wild frenzy after the death of Princess Diana have I ever met such a wave of ignorant sentiment. Nobody knows anything about Ukraine. Everyone has ferocious opinions about it."

Seriously that is embarrassing dog whistle tabloid journalism. How dare they rename our chicken kyevs.

"have mentioned here before that the first act of violence in this war was actually the Western-backed mob putsch which overthrew Ukraine’s lawful government in 2014. (not considering the Russian backed unconstitutional govt corruption before that as maybe bring an earlier act, and the 2014 annexations by Russia which I guess we're just a bit meh)

This was the true beginning of all the horror. And while it does not excuse the idiotic and brutal Putin invasion, it very much helps to explain it.

Look, I respect those who take Ukraine’s side in this war...."

So whilst Hitchins acknowledges the brutality and presumably associated illegality of the war (given he condemns western meddling in 2014 then you'd think a big inhuman invasion with tanks and stuff would probably be at least as bad) he still seems to be saying he supports Russia.

 

Look, seriously, he's implying that no-one else aside from him have considered the grey areas. Actually he's wrong. He has very black and white thinking to say (1) he's the only to have considered the possibility that Ukraine aren't actually whiter than white (yeah many of us geddit, capiche?) and (2) that means Ukraine don't deserve our support 

[Staffsknot]

17 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Yeah balanced view - based on supermarket food - fuller context of that quote - "I laughed out loud in Marks & Spencer when I found that they are now selling something called ‘Chicken Kyiv’. 

This is apparently just like their old ‘Chicken Kiev’, only with added propaganda. I am told that there is now also a ‘No Chicken Kyiv’ for vegans, without any actual chicken in it.

Not since the wild frenzy after the death of Princess Diana have I ever met such a wave of ignorant sentiment. Nobody knows anything about Ukraine. Everyone has ferocious opinions about it."

Seriously that is embarrassing dog whistle tabloid journalism. How dare they rename our chicken kyevs.

"have mentioned here before that the first act of violence in this war was actually the Western-backed mob putsch which overthrew Ukraine’s lawful government in 2014. (not considering the Russian backed unconstitutional govt corruption before that as maybe bring an earlier act, and the 2014 annexations by Russia which I guess we're just a bit meh)

This was the true beginning of all the horror. And while it does not excuse the idiotic and brutal Putin invasion, it very much helps to explain it.

Look, I respect those who take Ukraine’s side in this war...."

So whilst Hitchins acknowledges the brutality and presumably associated illegality of the war (given he condemns western meddling in 2014 then you'd think a big inhuman invasion with tanks and stuff would probably be at least as bad) he still seems to be saying he supports Russia.

 

Look, seriously, he's implying that no-one else aside from him have considered the grey areas. Actually he's wrong. He has very black and white thinking to say (1) he's the only to have considered the possibility that Ukraine aren't actually whiter than white (yeah many of us geddit, capiche?) and (2) that means Ukraine don't deserve our support 

Peter Hitchens seems to be having a mini-breakdown since his lockdown rantings.

But its The Daily Wail - they need a woke rant for the readership and folks who thought Putin was a good example of strong leadership. M&S changing the name of a meal is their kind of outrage need.

[rollover]

As the proverb goes ... you reap what you sow ...

UK ‘unprepared’ for soaring food prices and shortages

The UK is unprepared for huge food price hikes and shortages of essential goods that will be triggered by the Ukraine war, with stark implications also for the UK, which relies on food imports.

The looming crisis will come to a head at a crunch meeting of the Food and Drink Sector Council (FDSC) on Tuesday, when industry figures will demand to see what preparations are in place.

Mr Wright said: “I don’t think the government has fully grasped the implications of all this. There is growing concerns that there is no proper plan for a “scary” future of disrupted food supplies. Things could get quite scary, with significant price rises and in terms of food poverty. “This is a bigger crisis than energy.”

Independend

[Si1]

19 minutes ago, rollover said:

As the proverb goes ... you reap what you sow ...

UK ‘unprepared’ for soaring food prices and shortages

The UK is unprepared for huge food price hikes and shortages of essential goods that will be triggered by the Ukraine war, with stark implications also for the UK, which relies on food imports.

The looming crisis will come to a head at a crunch meeting of the Food and Drink Sector Council (FDSC) on Tuesday, when industry figures will demand to see what preparations are in place.

Mr Wright said: “I don’t think the government has fully grasped the implications of all this. There is growing concerns that there is no proper plan for a “scary” future of disrupted food supplies. Things could get quite scary, with significant price rises and in terms of food poverty. “This is a bigger crisis than energy.”

Independend

Yeah, I think the west might sink Russia's black sea fleet rather than see their supermarket Chicken Kyivs triple in price.

As you say, you reap what you sow my little Mishka.

[slawek]

10 hours ago, DarkHorseWaits-NoMore said:

Peter Hitchens speaks from informed subject knowledge to bring some reasoned balance to the table. What is shocking is that so many of my fellow UK/Europeans can be so easily duped and played by this level of Gorbelian propaganda in the majority of our own media. He's again ringing a big phuckin alarm bell here. Apparently we have learned nothing yet.

 

 

I am not sure what is your point here.

1) As the world is old fighting sides in all conflicts were boasting about their successes and silent about their defeats. That is the way it was, is and will be. All to keep morale high.

2) All nations have some skeletons in wardrobe, including Brits.

3) In all armies there are far-right, Nazis nutters. 

There is no revelation in that.

Nothing of that in any way changes the fact that Ukraine was invaded and Russia wants to using brutal force illegally grab its territory against the will of people living there, killing them and abusing in any way possible in the process. So there is no doubt that Ukraine has any right to defend itself and we are have moral right to help them. 

[Si1]

@rollover 

Little Mishka! Mother of God! Russia just used its high precision missiles to destroy the public toilet block in downtown Odessa. This is serious. Where will the brave defenders of Ukraine go for a pee in-between taking out Russian armoured vehicles with western supplied ATMs?

Gloucestershire Live: Putin humiliated as £4m missile only destroys a beach toilet.
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/humiliation-putin-4m-missile-only-7113978

 

[Si1]

Mishka - you should go to these rock concerts, chill out let your hair down -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/23/f-ck-war-watch-russian-concert-goers-chant-protest-invasion/

 

[rollover]

Biological weapons expert Colonel Kanat Alibekov, who now lives in the United States, claimed that the USSR considered using the monkeypox as a biological weapon until at least the 1990s

[Staffsknot]

3 hours ago, Si1 said:

@rollover 

Little Mishka! Mother of God! Russia just used its high precision missiles to destroy the public toilet block in downtown Odessa. This is serious. Where will the brave defenders of Ukraine go for a pee in-between taking out Russian armoured vehicles with western supplied ATMs?

Gloucestershire Live: Putin humiliated as £4m missile only destroys a beach toilet.
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/humiliation-putin-4m-missile-only-7113978

 

Those will be ATGMs, the Russians emptied the ATMs duringbthe last bout of looting 😉

[Si1]

25 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Those will be ATGMs, the Russians emptied the ATMs duringbthe last bout of looting 😉

Very good ☺️

[Staffsknot]

15 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Very good ☺️

Thought you'd enjoy that

[Si1]

Sky News: 'Serious failures' of Afghanistan evacuation lowered UK's global standing - damning report calls for Foreign Office boss to resign.

https://news.sky.com/story/serious-failures-of-afghanistan-evacuation-lowered-uks-global-standing-damning-report-calls-for-foreign-office-boss-to-resign-12620053

 

"The committee has called for the head of the Foreign Office, Sir Philip Barton, to resign over the leadership failures that lead to Afghans who were Taliban targets to be left behind during Operation Pitting."

"The MPs praised the many junior officials who "demonstrated courage and integrity" throughout the inquiry, including two whistleblowers who they said risked their careers to tell the truth.

Those who lead the FCDO "should be ashamed" civil servants of "great integrity felt compelled to risk their careers to bring the situation to light", they said."

"Tom Tugendhat, the Conservative chair of the committee, said those failures have had "huge implications" for the UK as it inspired Vladimir Putin and others "to think that we weren't serious" - which "allowed him to believe that he could attack Ukraine without us reacting"."