skinnylattej Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Si1 said: Maybe I'm being naïve. If America were to make that guarantee then what's the point of NATO. Bit unfair on Ukraine too in hindsight, if America made that promise. Plus Sweden and Finland are sort of neighbours to us, we're often seen as a borderline Nordic. Or maybe Bojo is trying to get off with the Finnish and Swedish female leaders. Weren't various security promises made to Ukraine? Minsk agreements? International agreements and treaties are meaningless. I cite the NIP as another example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: No worries, the well trained well equipped Finns will have routed the Russian rabble long before we can get there. This is more their level Does it make you proud? Detracting from talking point and distracting with personal gibe becoming your normality ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 29 minutes ago, skinnylattej said: Weren't various security promises made to Ukraine? No. Not of that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Si1 said: Just logically and strategically, Poo-Tin has staked his legacy, his power and even possibly his life on the Ukraine invasion. There's no way, especially after losing the battle for Kyiv, he wouldn't use his best. The same people in a couple of days have flitted between: - Russia is using its latest hypersonic missiles and state of the art tech and the West is unprepared - Russia sent the 2nd 11 and waiting to eliminate any NATO retaliation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, IMHAL said: My first guess is that BJ is posturing himself as the 'Churchill' figure and has calculated putting 'the UK' at risk worthwhile in order to keep his job. My second guess is that BJ would treat such a treaty and the commitment to Fin/Swe with the same level of respect as the NIP or the botched Homes for Ukraine scheme...it's all optics and no action. It's just to sow enough doubt in Putin's mind to make sure he doesn't try anything in the short term over Finland/Sweden. And also to persuade them in the right direction of joining NATO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 57 minutes ago, rollover said: Detracting from talking point and distracting with personal gibe becoming your normality ... Does this make you proud: https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-boy-11-raped-in-front-of-his-mother-and-now-only-communicates-using-black-lines-says-deputy-foreign-minister-12611608 Ukraine war: Boy, 11, raped in front of his mother and now only communicates using black lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drat Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 21 minutes ago, Si1 said: It's just to sow enough doubt in Putin's mind to make sure he doesn't try anything in the short term over Finland/Sweden. And also to persuade them in the right direction of joining NATO. So nothing about PR to reduce the risk of UK getting nil points in Eurovision then? /s It will be interesting to see how it is spun in Russia. Probably something about "look, this shows we were right to invade special military opperation Ukraine before they joined NATO as the plan as to encircle us". But I wonder how many people start to wonder "Did FInland and Sweeden join NATO because we invaded Ukraine?" Dangerous time to be alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Drat said: So nothing about PR to reduce the risk of UK getting nil points in Eurovision then? /s Haha! Maybe... 2 minutes ago, Drat said: It will be interesting to see how it is spun in Russia. Probably something about "look, this shows we were right to invade special military opperation Ukraine before they joined NATO as the plan as to encircle us". They may say that. But they won't touch Finland now. In fact by weakening their strength elsewhere whilst doing over Ukraine they maybe gave Finland the only safe chance they'll ever have of fully joining NATO. 2 minutes ago, Drat said: But I wonder how many people start to wonder "Did FInland and Sweeden join NATO because we invaded Ukraine?" Dangerous time to be alive Indeed. I believe Russian sentiment behind the war is weakening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 I'm waiting for Putin to talk about nuclear war again. He's not mentioned it in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 18 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: I'm waiting for Putin to talk about nuclear war again. He's not mentioned it in a few weeks. https://www.newsweek.com/medvedev-nato-finland-ukraine-putin-1705940?amp=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Si1 said: https://www.newsweek.com/medvedev-nato-finland-ukraine-putin-1705940?amp=1 lol, cheers. I missed this outburst. 'Full-fledged Nuclear War' is a bit of an escalation I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 2 hours ago, rollover said: Detracting from talking point and distracting with personal gibe becoming your normality ... My response directly addressed your point. Now answer mine does the sight of your boys shooting civilians in the back make you proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: My response directly addressed your point. Now answer mine does the sight of your boys shooting civilians in the back make you proud. Raping small boys is quite bad too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayphil Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 8 hours ago, MarkG said: Remember, Putin sent his B-team into Ukraine. The A-team have been kept back in case they're needed to fight NATO. So if Putin decides to attack Finland before it joins NATO, Boris Johnson's posturing won't prevent him from doing so. And since Putin knows he'll have to fight Finland sooner or later--Russia can no more accept NATO forces that close to their important bases in the Arctic than the US could accept Russian forces in Saskatchewan, just over the border from US missile silos--he may well decide to do it sooner. He's often said that if a fight is inevitable, you should hit first. Or he may decide to wait until they are in NATO before he attacks, just so the world will see the rest of NATO refuse to risk nuclear war to protect Finland. That would be the end of NATO and the US Empire. Why will Putin have to fight Finland.. He can choose to, but he wouldn't have to, because it's Not Finland that will invade, or do anything to his bases in the Arctic. He may have to fight against Ukraine invading soon, and it certainly won't be the A team left at home. (Because you made that up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 5 hours ago, Staffsknot said: They didn't even leave the van or Hannibal's cigars behind let alone not send their 'A-Team'. Where did you come across this load of tosh I think he came across it in his Putin patsy Brex_hit voting land of make believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Si1 said: Does this make you proud: https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-boy-11-raped-in-front-of-his-mother-and-now-only-communicates-using-black-lines-says-deputy-foreign-minister-12611608 Ukraine war: Boy, 11, raped in front of his mother and now only communicates using black lines All on the conscience of the Putin patsies who emboldened him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Turkey to veto Finland and Sweden's accession to NATO... https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-05-13/leader-says-turkey-opposes-letting-finland-sweden-join-nato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Si1 said: Turkey to veto Finland and Sweden's accession to NATO... https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-05-13/leader-says-turkey-opposes-letting-finland-sweden-join-nato Turkey is close to bankrupt, i am pretty sure that translates as "it will cost you". I would guess getting a chunk of that $40bn for more Turkish weapons would help oil the wheels. Edited May 13, 2022 by Confusion of VIs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Turkey is close to bankrupt, i am pretty sure that translates as "it will cost you". I would guess getting a chunk of that $40bn for more Turkish weapons would help oil the wheels. Goodness yeah the old Bayraktars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnylattej Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: Turkey is close to bankrupt, i am pretty sure that translates as "it will cost you". I would guess getting a chunk of that $40bn for more Turkish weapons would help oil the wheels. Could we arrange a swap, Putin gets bankrupt Turkey, and EU gets Ukraine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Country with no navy continues to kick the butt of a country that does have one in a naval conflict: https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/naval-news/naval-news-archive/2022/may/11735-brand-new-vsevolod-bobrov-auxiliary-russian-navy-ship-possibly-hit-by-ukrainian-missile-in-black-sea.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 10 hours ago, Drat said: It will be interesting to see how it is spun in Russia. Probably something about "look, this shows we were right to invade special military opperation Ukraine before they joined NATO as the plan as to encircle us". But I wonder how many people start to wonder "Did FInland and Sweeden join NATO because we invaded Ukraine?" Dangerous time to be alive I want to know how Russian media is presenting the Germans' decision to re-arm. Perhaps a few of our posters on here could enlighten us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 This GIS Art tech is insane. Hats off the the Ukrainian developers. UK-assisted Uber-style technology helped Ukraine to destroy Russian battalion https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/73330af0-d2d4-11ec-84ba-2054de44b21e?shareToken=45feab260d7d8dfd80f7799bcc616da9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: This GIS Art tech is insane. Hats off the the Ukrainian developers. UK-assisted Uber-style technology helped Ukraine to destroy Russian battalion https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/73330af0-d2d4-11ec-84ba-2054de44b21e?shareToken=45feab260d7d8dfd80f7799bcc616da9 GIS (Geographical information system) isn't anything new, it's built with conventional APIs to develop all sorts of geographical problem solving apps. Very powerful part of the big data revolution. Usually used to locate best commercial location for a shop or new bus route or pollution monitoring or whatever. So yeah makes sense the Ukrainian techies have been able to use it to this effect in conflict. Actually wow. This could be Ukraine's equivalent of the battle of Britain operations rooms, for martialing limited defences most efficiently. https://www.esri.com/en-us/arcgis/about-arcgis/overview (I understand that software development for the military can take years or decades for various bureaucratic reasons, justified or not, whereas this represents commercially-derived agile iterative development presumably done in months or weeks - needs must) Edited May 13, 2022 by Si1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Si1 said: GIS (Geographical information system) isn't anything new, it's built with conventional APIs to develop all sorts of geographical problem solving apps. Very powerful part of the big data revolution. Usually used to locate best commercial location for a shop or new bus route or pollution monitoring or whatever. So yeah makes sense the Ukrainian techies have been able to use it to this effect in conflict. Actually wow. This could be Ukraine's equivalent of the battle of Britain operations rooms, for martialing limited defences most efficiently. https://www.esri.com/en-us/arcgis/about-arcgis/overview (I understand that software development for the military can take years or decades for various bureaucratic reasons, justified or not, whereas this represents commercially-derived agile iterative development presumably done in months or weeks - needs must) I know GIS is not new but did you read the link? This 'Uber' like system can TOT in a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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