Boris in LaLa Land

[winkie]

La la land.

 

[iamnumerate]

20 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Yes FPTP is awful, it's also Labour party policy to keep it for Westminster elections which is another reason they can forget about my vote.

If people had more choice then maybe less would vote for Labour.  I really hope that all our political parties go the way of Betamax videos.

[Dorkins]

2 hours ago, Insane said:

It is a very sad state of affairs when people constantly quote how disappointed they are with the Torys , how angered they are with the state of the country , how let down they feel , that they think Boris is a Chancer a fool and all manner of other statements , yet they would have no choice but to vote for him.

Of course people have a choice not to vote Tory. I don't understand how anybody who says they are concerned about the welfare of the common working man, and then sees Boris and Rishi deliberately pumping house prices with stamp duty cuts for landlords and 2nd home owners and taxpayer-subsidised 95% mortgages, can just shrug and put an X next to the Tory candidate knowing that's what they are voting for.

[Insane]

1 minute ago, Dorkins said:

Of course people have a choice not to vote Tory. I don't understand how anybody who says they are concerned about the welfare of the common working man, and then sees Boris and Rishi deliberately pumping house prices with stamp duty cuts for landlords and 2nd home owners and taxpayer-subsidised 95% mortgages, can just shrug and put an X next to the Tory candidate knowing that's what they are voting for.

" They have no choice " I think is a figure of speech.

Yes of course they have a choice there are a whole host of people standing in a General Election but they know like anyone else we get either a Labour or Tory Government and they don't want Labour. 

Many older x Labour Voters did not see Labour looking after the common working man during their last 13 years in power in fact the saw the exact opposite. They don't see anything different happening if the current people representing Labour were to form the next Government.

Some of the Red Wall Seats in the north have quite low house prices , so I don't think housing was that big of an issue at the last election. 

Although this web site is house price crash not everyone puts their x next to the box with only house prices in mind. Housing and its cost is not the only issue.    

[zugzwang]

18 minutes ago, Insane said:

Many older x Labour Voters did not see Labour looking after the common working man during their last 13 years in power in fact the saw the exact opposite. They don't see anything different happening if the current people representing Labour were to form the next Government.

 

Bullpucky. The 2019 GE was all about keeping the Muslins out. The Red Wall doesn't like immigration much but they absolutely loathe Baphomet.

 

[pig]

4 hours ago, Insane said:

No you were not you were trying to label someone who did not agree with you to fit your wanted description of them. 
 

Yes I was guessing - not quite enough to go on, but I do now think you’re deranged over race. It’s not a ‘label’ as such just a kind of holding space until I get a better explanation.

4 hours ago, Insane said:

I believe just from the documentaries I have seen on the subject that it is a very involved difficult situation that very few can agree on , even the experts are baffled with the rise in young people wanting to alter their sex , I heard the Portman clinic in London a clinic that specialises in this said the referrals had risen 10 fold. What I have seen is anyone not singing from the Labour Left hymen sheet on this and giving their own opinions are being shut down quite aggressively something that should not be tolerated in a society that is meant to believe in free speech. 
 

Actually I think I would agree with most of this. However it’s a difficult one for Labour as the debate is quite - heated including between Lefties, on the one hand, on the other hand while not unimportant it’s a bit niche so I guess they can’t see the point of committing hari kari over it.

However it does show you’re not deranged over the trans debate. 

4 hours ago, Insane said:

No not weird and not childish , I asked you a simple question , but like others I have asked you on these posts you have not answered. 
 

Yes it is  + alarm bells ringing all over the place.

4 hours ago, Insane said:

I am not ranting and raving just putting my points across. If anyone has gone up a notch from stating their opinions and is heading towards ranting and raving it is you, when you stated to make personnel assumptions of me when I was declining your points. 
 

What are your points ?
Try making some points without using the word ‘race’.

Genuine request - it might help you articulate something clearly that people can debate.

4 hours ago, Insane said:

 

You are the one who is more worked up and have concentrated on that rather than answer my questions. 

 

Well maybe answer the question which was why is there such a double standard when it comes to race in the Labour Party the Labour Movement and Yourself ? 

Intellectually fascinating LOL maybe answer the simple question above , I would not call it Intellectually fascinating just a straight forward question and answer situation.

Ok then:  there isn’t a double standard.

Next question ?

Edited October 7, 2021 by pig

[Insane]

12 minutes ago, pig said:

Yes I was guessing - not quite enough to go on, but I do now think you’re deranged over race. It’s not a ‘label’ as such just a kind of holding space until I get a better explanation.

Nope 

13 minutes ago, pig said:

Try making some points without using the word ‘race’.

Unbelievable 

The more I read your posts the more I see you have an issue. Not sure what it is , don't really care what it is. But  don't ever tell people not to use a certain word be it race, car , dog , house ect , who do you think you are ? 

While we are on the subject of RACE when are you going to answer my question which I have posed to you on numerous occasions now . Let me put the question to you again Why do Labour , the Labour Movement and you have a double standard when it comes to Racism ? Why can you not answer ? 

17 minutes ago, pig said:

Ok then:  there isn’t a double standard.

Next question ?

See above 

Now answer the Question and there is defiantly a double standard. 

[Dorkins]

1 hour ago, Insane said:

Some of the Red Wall Seats in the north have quite low house prices , so I don't think housing was that big of an issue at the last election. 

Although this web site is house price crash not everyone puts their x next to the box with only house prices in mind. Housing and its cost is not the only issue.    

So what are the big issues in the Red Wall?

[Insane]

Just now, Dorkins said:

So what are the big issues in the Red Wall?

Varied , issues that they have not had sorted while they had Labour representing them for decades if not decades since the beginning of the Labour Movement. During and after the 2019 election I saw quite a few people interviewed and their biggest gripe was Labour took us for granted thinking we would always vote for them because our Dads and Grandads did. 

What ever the issues they were enough for the wall to fall as we all saw. Have you any ideas on what the issues were ?  

[Huggy]

1 hour ago, Dorkins said:

Of course people have a choice not to vote Tory. I don't understand how anybody who says they are concerned about the welfare of the common working man, and then sees Boris and Rishi deliberately pumping house prices with stamp duty cuts for landlords and 2nd home owners and taxpayer-subsidised 95% mortgages, can just shrug and put an X next to the Tory candidate knowing that's what they are voting for.

We can also look at the opposition, and at the last decision it was Corbyn (pronouns: he/him), and say I'd rather have anything but that.

Anything 😉

[zugzwang]

4 minutes ago, Huggy said:

We can also look at the opposition, and at the last decision it was Corbyn (pronouns: he/him), and say I'd rather have anything but that.

Anything 😉

 

The country voted for him 2017.

In droves!

Attempting to triangulate Brexit is what cost Labour the 2019 GE.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-election-result-vote-share-increased-1945-clement-attlee-a7781706.html

Jeremy Corbyn increased Labour's vote share more than any of the party's leaders since 1945

Socialist achieves bigger swing than Tony Blair.

Harriet Agerholm,Louis Dore

Friday 09 June 2017 18:52

comments

[Dorkins]

15 minutes ago, Insane said:

Varied , issues that they have not had sorted while they had Labour representing them for decades if not decades since the beginning of the Labour Movement. During and after the 2019 election I saw quite a few people interviewed and their biggest gripe was Labour took us for granted thinking we would always vote for them because our Dads and Grandads did. 

What ever the issues they were enough for the wall to fall as we all saw. Have you any ideas on what the issues were ?  

Makes sense, thanks for clearing that up.

[Dorkins]

34 minutes ago, Huggy said:

We can also look at the opposition, and at the last decision it was Corbyn (pronouns: he/him), and say I'd rather have anything but that.

Anything 😉

Why?

[iamnumerate]

4 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Why?

Pro HPI plus loony left is better than Pro HPI minus loony left.

A bit like choosing between the least crazy woman to marry though

[Dorkins]

3 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Pro HPI plus loony left is better than Pro HPI minus loony left.

A bit like choosing between the least crazy woman to marry though

The worst thing about the Corbyn manifesto was the pledge to continue with Help to Buy. It showed that they were willing to keep the HPI plates spinning instead of actually tackling it the way a future paradigm-shifting Attlee/Thatcher-type government will one day have to. Corbyn was no messiah, that's for sure.

[pig]

3 hours ago, Insane said:

Nope 

Unbelievable 

The more I read your posts the more I see you have an issue. Not sure what it is , don't really care what it is. But  don't ever tell people not to use a certain word be it race, car , dog , house ect , who do you think you are ? 

While we are on the subject of RACE when are you going to answer my question which I have posed to you on numerous occasions now . Let me put the question to you again Why do Labour , the Labour Movement and you have a double standard when it comes to Racism ? Why can you not answer ? 

See above 

Now answer the Question and there is defiantly a double standard. 

No its clearly just boll0x from some 'race' obsessed keyboard warrior.

Or maybe not ?  Only he can explain  

 

 

[Insane]

1 minute ago, pig said:

No its clearly just boll0x from some 'race' obsessed keyboard warrior.

Or maybe not ?  Only he can explain

You describe yourself . 

[pig]

8 minutes ago, Insane said:

You describe yourself . 

How old are you lol ?

[Insane]

9 minutes ago, pig said:

How old are you lol ?

Your now becoming a keyboard stalker. 

[Tapori]

On 06/10/2021 at 11:55, IMHAL said:

Igree with that but I think something more profound is going on. A doubling down of previous rhetoric, no option but to raise the stakes. The cons know that they have no option but to take the jam tomorrow line...and they are bigging it up. If you are going to lie then lie big.

Labour have been hamstrung in that they dare not criticise Brexit for fear of alienating voters. They should be holding BJ to account over his claims of higher wages and higher productivity. Where is the plan?

The Tories are benefitting enormously - unprecedented - with the only viable opposition vying for which wing to elect to alienate another sector of the nation.

Elect Starmer and simply get watery cuddly Centrism  that's gone stale and reeks of Blair to too many people with no really different policies on housing et al. Labour's apparatchiks (Mandelson et al) will tolerate losses for decades if it means we erase any hint of a genuine left alternative because thats what their favoured elite liberal establishment cliques want.

Elect Corbyn MK2 and alienate the sections ofl northern working-white classes et al and alienate middle england and the establishment.

Labour's only hope is electing a Burnham type figure and even that's a stretch whilst the party is filled with either a dominant radical cultish left or the current dominant cultish right-wing centrists.

Essentially, if the Tories manage to not win a majority for the next election, it should be regarded as a staggering failure on a par with if Blair had lost to IDS.

[Tapori]

8 hours ago, zugzwang said:

 

The country voted for him 2017.

In droves!

Attempting to triangulate Brexit is what cost Labour the 2019 GE.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-election-result-vote-share-increased-1945-clement-attlee-a7781706.html

Jeremy Corbyn increased Labour's vote share more than any of the party's leaders since 1945

Socialist achieves bigger swing than Tony Blair.

Harriet Agerholm,Louis Dore

Friday 09 June 2017 18:52

comments

Corbyn could rightly be ripped for poor leadership, being too nice to clear snakes who'd rather Labour lose than win and not pushing through re-selection rules and some rather interestingly alienating takes on some cultural issues (What is a woman?)

The economic policies, health, education and social welfare and even business options with solid infrastructure plans all costed, were excellent. You won't find any post-war political leader invoke such genuinely warm spontaneous cheer to the point where the tv producers were literally trying to mute it.

That's a vote share increase with 1 hand tied behind his back as he gets kicked in the balls btw; his own party workers literally campaigning against him. 2 coup-attempts and the hostile media.

In an age of anti-establishment populism, he came close to a few thousand votes of being in power in 2017 and ultimately was ground into the dust by the establishment by 2019.

Yet et tu McDonnell? John McDonnell's acquiescence to the very deliberately honed split created by Watson/Mandelso/Campbell via "THE PEOPLE'S VOTE NOWW!!!!!" campaign, was indeed what lost the election or rather allowed the Tories to double-down.

All Corbyn had, throughout every contrived controversy and a few of his own, was "Authenticity," and the moment his team listened to McDonnell - and it was a very tough choice given the sheer scale of pressure from everywhere for Labour to pivot away from their 2017 position by people who oddly have now gone "silent," was what cost them this most treasured quality that had elevated Corbyn.

And this lies at the heart of why Labour is being ripped to shreds; in a polarised world, a consensus can work if aimed in teh right way, but that very same polarisation can also tera the very fabric of your own party; and that's what has happened. How do you attract young pro-EU pro-cultural-change culturally middle-class professionals and ally them with small-c conservative left-leaning workers?

 

[IMHAL]

6 hours ago, Tapori said:

The Tories are benefitting enormously - unprecedented - with the only viable opposition vying for which wing to elect to alienate another sector of the nation.

Elect Starmer and simply get watery cuddly Centrism  that's gone stale and reeks of Blair to too many people with no really different policies on housing et al. Labour's apparatchiks (Mandelson et al) will tolerate losses for decades if it means we erase any hint of a genuine left alternative because thats what their favoured elite liberal establishment cliques want.

Elect Corbyn MK2 and alienate the sections ofl northern working-white classes et al and alienate middle england and the establishment.

Labour's only hope is electing a Burnham type figure and even that's a stretch whilst the party is filled with either a dominant radical cultish left or the current dominant cultish right-wing centrists.

Essentially, if the Tories manage to not win a majority for the next election, it should be regarded as a staggering failure on a par with if Blair had lost to IDS.

Largly agree but I feel as if something more profound has happened to the political landscape than can be accounted for by 'clever' tory policies and meh labour opposition.

Brexit has a large part to play in this, especially as 'the people' are looking to the party who said they would get this done, to actually get this done and see the upsides. Even for some remainers, all that pain has to show upsides or clearly fail. The people are willing to give the gov the benefit of any doubt at the moment regardless of the calamities and inequalities bestowed at this point.....they are fully bought into jam tommorow.

I don't think we have room in peoples minds for an opposition in this climate. The mood will need to change significantly first.

Edited October 8, 2021 by IMHAL

[iamnumerate]

10 hours ago, Dorkins said:

The worst thing about the Corbyn manifesto was the pledge to continue with Help to Buy. It showed that they were willing to keep the HPI plates spinning instead of actually tackling it the way a future paradigm-shifting Attlee/Thatcher-type government will one day have to. Corbyn was no messiah, that's for sure.

Very true.  Sadly very very few politicians were against HTB. It is quite depressing. Sadly any future government will come too late for many people HPI started to cause problems 21 years ago!

8 hours ago, Insane said:

Your now becoming a keyboard stalker. 

Some people don't seem to realize that they are just encouraging people to vote for the useless Tories.

[iamnumerate]

3 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Largly agree but I feel as if something more profound has happened to the political landscape than can be accounted for by 'clever' tory policies and meh labour opposition.

Brexit has a large part to play in this, especially as 'the people' are looking to the party who said they would get this done, to actually get this done and see the upsides. The people are willing to give the gov the benefit of any doubt at the moment regardless of the calamities and inequalities bestowed at this point.....they are fully bought into jam tommorow.

I don't think we have room in peoples minds for an opposition in this climate. The mood will need to change significantly first.

Any successful opposition to the Tories should stop saying things like "It is not true that only women have cervixes" and stop any opposition to the benefit cap.

I think Brexit is less important than people think. I would not have voted Labour if they had been pro Brexit and the Tories pro remain.

[zugzwang]

6 hours ago, Tapori said:

Labour's only hope is electing a Burnham type figure and even that's a stretch whilst the party is filled with either a dominant radical cultish left or the current dominant cultish right-wing centrists.

Burnham's another doom loop centrist. He was one of the Blairite twits Corbyn had to get past in 2016.

He just happens to be a Manc lad so is presumed to have more native appeal to Red Wall voters. I don't see it myself.