The Sun: 22 Year Old BTL Landlord.

[Odysseus]

On 16/09/2021 at 15:30, Tiger131 said:

The tax laws in the UK are very strange, how can you gift someone a large amount of money and no one pays any tax, when every penny of earned income is taxed heavily and you are generally left with only 60% or less. It's almost like the country is set up for wealthy people to give their children a massive leg up in life scott free, and rob the masses by taxing their income. I know a few people who were gifted money for houses in the early 00s when they were cheap and obviously have done very well out of HPI.

Isn’t the tax already paid on the gifted money in the first place? If tax was payable again on the gifted money it would have been taxed twice.

[Si1]

9 minutes ago, Odysseus said:

Isn’t the tax already paid on the gifted money in the first place? If tax was payable again on the gifted money it would have been taxed twice.

So? That same argument is used against inheritance tax, stamp duty, council tax and land value tax.

[Odysseus]

26 minutes ago, Si1 said:

So? That same argument is used against inheritance tax, stamp duty, council tax and land value tax.

If i pay income tax and NI on earnings then I can do whatever I want with it. Why should I be able to give it to charity (and claim back the tax) but not to my progeny?

[Si1]

6 hours ago, Odysseus said:

If i pay income tax and NI on earnings then I can do whatever I want with it. Why should I be able to give it to charity (and claim back the tax) but not to my progeny?

What?

[Warlord]

Who aspires to be a scumlord ?  The kid is seriously mad. He should do other things with his money than sink it into the property market (right at the top).

 

[steve99]

On 18/09/2021 at 10:11, Si1 said:

Not much different to Tony Blair then.

An element of truth but the last labour government who I assumed to be Tory lite, were nowhere near as divorced from the poorest 25% of society as this government is.  Universal credit, zero hour contract jobs, running down the NHS and most certainly its preparedness for a pandemic, using private companies to declare terminally ill people fit for work, pouring ££Billions into cronies pockets on covid contracts (spending far more than any EU country), causing brexit, causing a massive division within the population due to Brexit, probably causing the breakup of the UK and much more to which half the reader here can fill the gaps. 

Blair/Browns failure was in not undoing much tory policy re housing, bankers behaviour and getting into bed with bush for the never ending wars. (Tory had 10 years to pull back before they did so)  However did sort NI out, introduced min wage,(some people were earning as little as 50p per hour before this) Improved education and the NHS and so on. 

[steve99]

On 18/09/2021 at 10:27, Odysseus said:

Isn’t the tax already paid on the gifted money in the first place? If tax was payable again on the gifted money it would have been taxed twice.

A bit like spending on plumbing or on a new car whereby the provider of the goods and services may pay income tax and VAT. Its the round robin of money creation and balancing the books at the end of its cycle as it comes back to treasury.  The rich however do it via family trusts and dodgy but accepted (by the govt on behalf of the rich) offshore tax havens. 

[Greater Fool]

On 18/09/2021 at 11:06, Odysseus said:

If i pay income tax and NI on earnings then I can do whatever I want with it. Why should I be able to give it to charity (and claim back the tax) but not to my progeny?

The recipient of the gifted cash isn't paying tax on the unearned income. The source of the income being a relative or paid employment shouldn't matter, it would be taxed the same if tax laws were consistent.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Tiger131

[sPinwheel]

On 18/09/2021 at 17:55, Warlord said:

Who aspires to be a scumlord ?  The kid is seriously mad. He should do other things with his money than sink it into the property market (right at the top).

 

Yeah, he should be showering that money on hookers and cocaine.

[Odysseus]

7 hours ago, Tiger131 said:

The recipient of the gifted cash isn't paying tax on the unearned income. The source of the income being a relative or paid employment shouldn't matter, it would be taxed the same if tax laws were consistent.

So should you pay tax on birthday and Christmas presents?

I think I fundamentally disagree with your position on this one.

[Greater Fool]

12 hours ago, Odysseus said:

So should you pay tax on birthday and Christmas presents?

I think I fundamentally disagree with your position on this one.

No of course not, we are talking about large sums of cash here. I was just pointing out that the tax laws are inconsistent in that income from paid employment is taxed heavily, but income from large amounts of gifted cash whether regular or one offs is not treated the same way. Another example is if I am "gifted" a bonus from my paid employment that would be taxed at 40% but from a relative it would be not subject to any tax. I really don't see how the source of the income should determine how it is taxed.

[Ah-so]

These stories never quite add up. Even if he bought his first BTL, he would have needed at 30% deposit. You don't save the over £30k he needed working part time at school. He was given most of the money he needed. 

There is then clear BS when he says his second BTL needed a less than 10% deposit. 

The only way it can work is through mortgage fraud. 

[Si1]

Just now, Ah-so said:

These stories never quite add up. Even if he bought his first BTL, he would have needed at 30% deposit. You don't save the over £30k he needed working part time at school. He was given most of the money he needed. 

There is then clear BS when he says his second BTL needed a less than 10% deposit. 

The only way it can work is through mortgage fraud. 

His rich parents could easily have been guarantors or joint mortgagees.

[Ah-so]

Just now, Si1 said:

His rich parents could easily have been guarantors or joint mortgagees.

Perhaps. But there is always more to these stories than meets the eye. The newspapers lay along with them because "man buys house with gifted deposit" is not so interesting. 

These stories also feed into the baby Boer narrative of IPhones and Abacados being the reason you can't buy houses. 

On this point I once had a fairly long online discussion with one such boomer who put it all down to hard work, despite paying 15% interest blah blah blah. He was open about what he earned and the prices, but when it got to the deposit, he admitted that there was no way that he could have afforded it, as it would today be well over a year's pay for him. He didn't change his mind on the whole issue, however. 

[MancTom]

On 14/09/2021 at 16:34, Tiger131 said:

What are you lot complaining about? Anyone can become a BTL with multiple properties, beats a lifetime of working.

Https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/16130611/landlord-young-no-excuse/

I think BTL is old hat now BTAirBandB is what people are now doing. Have seen numerous stories about people being kicked out of rentals because the landlord can earn far more money with short air bandb stays. Result is in many places you can find hundreds of air bandb and < 10 long term rentals. But still there is the usual demand for the latter, but nowhere for them to live. Seems nuts we are not banning short term rentals to combat this?

 

 

 

 

[jans123]

On 9/18/2021 at 10:27 AM, Odysseus said:

Isn’t the tax already paid on the gifted money in the first place? If tax was payable again on the gifted money it would have been taxed twice.

Yes I agree on this one - If I work hard and decide to give money to my kids or indeed to anyone else such as a charity I subscribe to I have already paid the tax.

If you start paying tax on gifts where does it end.  Maybe if I buy someone a birthday or Xmas present the recipient should be taxed as it is a gift.  Or if I treat my partner to a meal of to to cinema .

1 hour ago, Tiger131 said:

No of course not, we are talking about large sums of cash here. I was just pointing out that the tax laws are inconsistent in that income from paid employment is taxed heavily, but income from large amounts of gifted cash whether regular or one offs is not treated the same way. Another example is if I am "gifted" a bonus from my paid employment that would be taxed at 40% but from a relative it would be not subject to any tax. I really don't see how the source of the income should determine how it is taxed.

But the money you receive from your employer has not already been taxed. 

[Greater Fool]

46 minutes ago, jans123 said:

Yes I agree on this one - If I work hard and decide to give money to my kids or indeed to anyone else such as a charity I subscribe to I have already paid the tax.

If you start paying tax on gifts where does it end.  Maybe if I buy someone a birthday or Xmas present the recipient should be taxed as it is a gift.  Or if I treat my partner to a meal of to to cinema .

But the money you receive from your employer has not already been taxed. 

Of course the money from the employer has already been taxed,  all money is taxed multiple times as it flows through the economy that's tax works, eventually it all passes though the government. In this case the employer has had income from it's customers, the customer's income will have have been taxed, also the business has to pay corproration tax. It's simply impossible for there not have not been multiple points of taxation on the same quality of money as it is transferred around.

 

[jans123]

2 hours ago, Tiger131 said:

Of course the money from the employer has already been taxed,  all money is taxed multiple times as it flows through the economy that's tax works, eventually it all passes though the government. In this case the employer has had income from it's customers, the customer's income will have have been taxed, also the business has to pay corproration tax. It's simply impossible for there not have not been multiple points of taxation on the same quality of money as it is transferred around.

Yes but if I give money to my kids I have already paid tax on it.  

I work to look after my family - that is my prime motivation.  I will not be able to take it with me when I leave this mortal coil.  If I choose to give it to my kids to enjoy I think that is better than letting it sit in a bank and not fuel the economy. 

[sPinwheel]

On 18/09/2021 at 10:11, Si1 said:

Not much different to Tony Blair then.

No-one likes him either.

[iamnumerate]

7 hours ago, Ah-so said:

Perhaps. But there is always more to these stories than meets the eye. The newspapers lay along with them because "man buys house with gifted deposit" is not so interesting. 

These stories also feed into the baby Boer narrative of IPhones and Abacados being the reason you can't buy houses. 

On this point I once had a fairly long online discussion with one such boomer who put it all down to hard work, despite paying 15% interest blah blah blah. He was open about what he earned and the prices, but when it got to the deposit, he admitted that there was no way that he could have afforded it, as it would today be well over a year's pay for him. He didn't change his mind on the whole issue, however. 

I don't understand how he could not change his mind looking at that.