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9 hours ago, byron78 said:

What a load of tosh.

How many households here have a machine that can literally print money?

Thankfully the BOE has, which explains why historic UK budgets have almost ALWAYS run a deficit since the year dot.

 

 

.

Govt can print money but cannot print wealth, productivity, goods or services.

Ask the people of Zimbabwe, Cuba, Venezuela etc. what just printing reams of paper money can do .

Gov[t NOT EXEMPT from fiscal sanity despite being able to print "money".

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8 minutes ago, Warlord said:

Govt can print money but cannot print wealth, productivity, goods or services.

Ask the people of Zimbabwe, Cuba, Venezuela etc. what just printing reams of paper money can do .

Gov[t NOT EXEMPT from fiscal sanity despite being able to print "money".

But they can give the freshly printed money to themselves and their friends and this way steal wealth from others. 

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13 hours ago, Warlord said:

I remember when I started caring about this stuff in 99 or 00 the budget for the NHS was £50bn .

And I thought that was a lot back then.

Clearly healthcare needs to be privatized which is quite a controversial thing to say.

 

Then you can be priced out of the healthcare market as well as the housing market! Win-win.

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7 minutes ago, Warlord said:

So long as the money holds value, yes. But they can't take the p*ss otherwise they trash the currency.  We're close to that.

 

What makes you draw that conclusion ?

The pound is pretty much at a 5 year high vs the euro, dollar and yen.

Edited by Gigantic Purple Slug
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9 minutes ago, yelims said:

Still 20% below where it was 20 years ago against these 3

It's not exactly what you would described as "trashed" though is it ?

I would say its trading a bit below it's usual dollar value, which is around 1.40 to 1.60. It's been in slow decline against the dollar for a long time.

Against the euro, the GFC was quite a correction in the range about 2008. It appears to be pretty much in the 1.10 to 1.20 band since then.

 

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Just now, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

It's not exactly what you would described as "trashed" though is it ?

I would say its trading a bit below it's usual dollar value, which is around 1.40 to 1.60. It's been in slow decline against the dollar for a long time.

Against the euro, the GFC was quite a correction in the range about 2008. It appears to be pretty much in the 1.10 to 1.20 band since then.

 

Too much printing = inflation = trashing the currency 

The fact that all the others are doing  it doesn't mean anything.  

We're close to the breaking point with higher inflation

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Just now, Warlord said:

Too much printing = inflation = trashing the currency 

The fact that all the others are doing  it doesn't mean anything.  

We're close to the breaking point with higher inflation

Well there isn't really much arguing with that.

Everyone else can do it and it doesn't mean anything. UK does it and all of a sudden its terrible.

In 2010 this website was full of people predicting that the UK was doomed. If now you think its time that the stopped clock is right. Good luck with that.

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8 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

It's not exactly what you would described as "trashed" though is it ?

I would say its trading a bit below it's usual dollar value, which is around 1.40 to 1.60. It's been in slow decline against the dollar for a long time.

Against the euro, the GFC was quite a correction in the range about 2008. It appears to be pretty much in the 1.10 to 1.20 band since then.

 

I would describe losing 20% of my wealth if I was stuck in gbp economy as being shafted 

trashed is what’s happening now as Boris the F£&k Business Johnson is busy trashing the place with Brexit 

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13 minutes ago, yelims said:

I would describe losing 20% of my wealth if I was stuck in gbp economy as being shafted 

trashed is what’s happening now as Boris the F£&k Business Johnson is busy trashing the place with Brexit 

Anyone who keeps that much in cash is crazy anyway.

I don't see much evidence that the UK is being trashed by Brexit. I'm pretty sure there will be significant re-alignments over the next couple of years that may result in a lot of changes for how and where we do business. Some will suffer some will gain. That's the nature of the world. Adapt and survive.

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2 hours ago, Warlord said:

Govt can print money but cannot print wealth, productivity, goods or services.

Ask the people of Zimbabwe, Cuba, Venezuela etc. what just printing reams of paper money can do .

Gov[t NOT EXEMPT from fiscal sanity despite being able to print "money".

And yet the Bank of England is somehow older than all of those countries combined...

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1 hour ago, Warlord said:

So long as the money holds value, yes. But they can't take the p*ss otherwise they trash the currency.  We're close to that.

 

We are. I've posted this elsewhere, but big chunks of this pink part of the increased NHS spend (the COVID 19 emergency measures) are largely unaccounted for.

 

Screenshot_20210912-210341~2.png

Edited by byron78
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1 minute ago, byron78 said:

And yet the Bank of England is somehow older than all of those countries combined...

Genuine question.

When a carer goes to someone's home and uses their labour to look after an elderly person, that labour is rewarded with units of money.

The government can print these units of money but they can't force that carer to go and expend their labour.

Is your argument that the BoE are able to print enough money to encourage people to go and expend their labour? Would that cause inflation, and if not, why not?

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7 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Genuine question.

When a carer goes to someone's home and uses their labour to look after an elderly person, that labour is rewarded with units of money.

The government can print these units of money but they can't force that carer to go and expend their labour.

Is your argument that the BoE are able to print enough money to encourage people to go and expend their labour? Would that cause inflation, and if not, why not?

That's not my argument. I was just pointing out the UK government spending is almost always more historically than its tax intake.

In fact, it's incredibly unusual for there not to be a deficit.

(Wider point, but for me the Tories being elected was an attempt by the elites and banks to get back to "business as normal" - hence nothing getting fixed and everything now being MUCH worse than it was back in 2008. Unless you hold bank supported assets of course.)

UK-budget-deficit-and-par-008.jpg

Debt-is-the-accumulation-of-deficits-Debt-and-both-will-rise-in-coming-decades.jpg

Edited by byron78
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3 hours ago, byron78 said:

And who do they sell to?

Loads of the next generation who have borrowed at unprecedented levels from banks.

Banks benefit big time. In fact, you'd have to say they've done extraordinarily well off the back of a Global Financial Crisis. 

 

I've no doubt the banks benefit big time but that wasn't what we were discussing.

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4 hours ago, scottbeard said:

We kind of do - the only reason the salary sacrifice loophole exists is because the government can’t think of a way to close it.

They hate salary sacrifice and would have got rid of it years ago if they  could. 

No different here - how can you be taxed 1.25% of something you never received….?

What is the legal basis of the salary sacrifice loophole ?

I was assuming they claimed it to be the employer contribution to the pension, but that was just an assumption on my part.

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38 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Anyone who keeps that much in cash is crazy anyway.

I don't see much evidence that the UK is being trashed by Brexit. I'm pretty sure there will be significant re-alignments over the next couple of years that may result in a lot of changes for how and where we do business. Some will suffer some will gain. That's the nature of the world. Adapt and survive.

Who said anything about cash if your earnings in gbp then year after year you were getting a pay cut compared to your us, euro and jpn counterparts 

 

and for what? UK exports keep falling despite weaker pound

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46 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Anyone who keeps that much in cash is crazy anyway.

I don't see much evidence that the UK is being trashed by Brexit. I'm pretty sure there will be significant re-alignments over the next couple of years that may result in a lot of changes for how and where we do business. Some will suffer some will gain. That's the nature of the world. Adapt and survive.

That would be me then (unless you're talking about bank notes), thanks for the compliment.

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4 minutes ago, yelims said:

Who said anything about cash if your earnings in gbp then year after year you were getting a pay cut compared to your us, euro and jpn counterparts 

 

and for what? UK exports keep falling despite weaker pound

It makes no sense to compare UK wages with those places and more than it does to compare them with africa.

The only important thing to me is wages vs. cost of living in this country.

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