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Bozo wants to hike National Insurance to pay for social care


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1 hour ago, winkie said:

It doesn't have to cost £230 billion pounds.......years of throwing money at it instead of reforming it...PFI and the  waste of money that went towards an abandoned computer system that failed £10 billion>.....still parts of it do not talk to each other, still a postcode lottery, not an even equal distribution of service and care nationwide.......the NHS needs are not solely the need for money, money going into the wrong places does not always improve it, it creates a greater need.;)

There is colossal waste, but people will say we spend less as a per cent of GDP than virtually all OECD countries.

There are some funny things though aren't there.  Such as non-Covid medicine being hugely cut back during the pandemic, but the non-Covid death rate plummeting at the same time.

Also if you plot western countries health spend per head against life span, it's a negative correlation.  An imperfect one, and possibly biased by the USA having such a large spend and low life expectancy, but it is an interesting thing.

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3 hours ago, Kosmin said:

Have rents increased as a result of the tax changes made by Osborne? (I'm not sure, but thought they hadn't changed much in the years after this change*, despite the claims of the 'Axe the tenant tax' gang. Can anyone confirm or does anyone have evidence to the contrary?)

If landlords could put up rents they would, but if they couldn't they would have to accept a lower net yield, or sell if that they considered the yield too low.

 

* What has happened to rents over the last 18 months? Rents seem to be higher for the small number who have started new tenancies, but are landlords planning to increase rents en masse? If not, it suggests the market couldn't bear this. The increases are affordable to a small number of movers, but probably not the majority of renters. 

I don't know much about it to be honest.

The landlord tax will put the entire burden of social care onto tenants, unless there are rent controls.

So that's two pieces of legislation required, in areas that were not hitherto connected.  Joined up government, what's the chances of that happening?

If landlords cannot generate a profit after tax, they may sell up and perhaps we'll see a property price reduction.  It doesn't mean that more people will be able to, or want to buy those houses, though.

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15 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Tomorrow’s fish and chip paper. Dividend tax still 1/3 of income tax and CGT only 1/2….for those who are smart enough this whole NI and care home tax is just something to be shuffled about and avoided.

ps…not really disagreeing with you, rather emphasising a wave of apathy that I think is common place now. People moan more and politically notice more a 3p on a pint rise than they notice a £20 a week tax rise. Only those on the breadline will really notice it….and who cares about them anyway? 40% of those in the breadline vote Tory because of something their dad said Labour did in 1974 and all lefties are commies. And to be fair probably half of Labour are making sure they don’t get in…last thing they want is to have to run the country because it might cost them some of their own wealth  

BJ could go out and stamp on kittens and whilst he might lose his leadership the Tories would still get in.

That’s why I put it all on black many years ago…and the people reassuringly keep voting for the rich the get richer. Happy days.

I think I am just on a ‘public gets what the public wants’ type of days 🤦🏻‍♂️😉

 

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52 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

Tomorrow’s fish and chip paper. Dividend tax still 1/3 of income tax and CGT only 1/2….for those who are smart enough this whole NI and care home tax is just something to be shuffled about and avoided.

ps…not really disagreeing with you, rather emphasising a wave of apathy that I think is common place now. People moan more and politically notice more a 3p on a pint rise than they notice a £20 a week tax rise. Only those on the breadline will really notice it….and who cares about them anyway? 40% of those in the breadline vote Tory because of something their dad said Labour did in 1974 and all lefties are commies. And to be fair probably half of Labour are making sure they don’t get in…last thing they want is to have to run the country because it might cost them some of their own wealth  

BJ could go out and stamp on kittens and whilst he might lose his leadership the Tories would still get in.

That’s why I put it all on black many years ago…and the people reassuringly keep voting for the rich the get richer. Happy days.

I think I am just on a ‘public gets what the public wants’ type of days 🤦🏻‍♂️😉

 

The Red Wall, and what should be the core vote for the Tories, are dominated by middle income earners and SMEs. The main current Tory voters, blue rinses, random and inherited asset wealth etc aren't my concern here. The marginal votes are. They won the last GE by 50 odd seats whereas 40 odd of them were in the Red Wall,

Edited by Si1
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10 minutes ago, kzb said:

There is colossal waste, but people will say we spend less as a per cent of GDP than virtually all OECD countries.

There are some funny things though aren't there.  Such as non-Covid medicine being hugely cut back during the pandemic, but the non-Covid death rate plummeting at the same time.

Also if you plot western countries health spend per head against life span, it's a negative correlation.  An imperfect one, and possibly biased by the USA having such a large spend and low life expectancy, but it is an interesting thing.

The non- CoVid death rate went down because the already sick and vulnerable that had health issues that easily caught CoVid outside or inside hospital were diagnosed and registered as a CoVid death....CoVid in a large number of cases caused a premature death.

I have no idea what we spend as a percentage of GDP, it is not what we spend it is how cost effective we spend what we do get, in real terms at a time of growing need pre pandemic we spent less year on year..... austerity.

One of our problems is treating the effects of poor living, poor eating and lifestyle, mental well-being, that is only growing........ Instead of focusing on the causes of why we have a growing need and demand for the health service.....there is no magic wand.

Prevention yes, when we are running backwards trying to manage, when there is no cure.;)

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3 hours ago, kzb said:

There is colossal waste, but people will say we spend less as a per cent of GDP than virtually all OECD countries.

There are some funny things though aren't there.  Such as non-Covid medicine being hugely cut back during the pandemic, but the non-Covid death rate plummeting at the same time.

Also if you plot western countries health spend per head against life span, it's a negative correlation.  An imperfect one, and possibly biased by the USA having such a large spend and low life expectancy, but it is an interesting thing.

You do realise you can't die twice right?

All those dying in their 90s in an old people's home with dementia were not long for this world, covid or not.

Something often lost on those pushing for kids to be off school for years and years to protect them

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7 hours ago, kzb said:

Interesting facts:

The NHS will cost £230 billion this year.

That is the entire sum of Income Tax (£198bn), Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, Stamp Duty and Property Transaction Tax.

Social Care is an additional £40bn expenditure.

Everything else must be coming off VAT, fuel and alcohol duties and Council Tax.

(Interesting facts courtesy of John Redwood's blog.)

I remember when I started caring about this stuff in 99 or 00 the budget for the NHS was £50bn .

And I thought that was a lot back then.

Clearly healthcare needs to be privatized which is quite a controversial thing to say.

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Roger Bootle - Britain is Utterly Royally screwed - sorry - Boris Johnson’s tax disaster condemns Britain to years of decline

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/12/boris-johnsons-tax-disaster-condemns-britain-years-decline/

 

"Like many erstwhile Conservative supporters, I was both dumbfounded and dismayed by last week’s tax increase – sorry, new health and social care levy. Yet this threatens to be just the beginning. Demographic factors alone will ensure massive increases in the demands on the NHS and the care industry. Unless these services are fundamentally reformed, under this Government’s approach, the result will be even higher taxes and a slide into an even more statist Britain. We need to be clear about how we got here and what the alternatives are for the future. "

(Frankly I can't see how house prices can survive this economic vandalism.)

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5 minutes ago, Si1 said:

It's telling that generational inequality is now a mainstream topic, even though most oldies blame it still on avocados and not buying second hand furniture.

Indeed.

I’ve said before, the Sunday Times (and to some extent the Observer) provide the coverage other papers seek to bury. For this reason I still buy a paper on Sundays, while reading online free the rest of the week. 

 

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This helps clarify the NHS budget (in terms of COVID costs etc).

The pink bits are all the contracts that have been dished out by this shambles of a government during the pandemic.

It's a remarkable amount of money - well over 10 times what Brown selling the gold cost us. Much of it is poorly scrutinised, and it's allocation somehow also benefited Matt Hancock's pub landlord.

(Inflation adjusted, NHS funding had been dropping ever so slightly across the previous decade, too).

Screenshot_20210912-210341~2.png

Edited by byron78
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It USED to be £50 billion a year under Blair and Brown

Talk about not being able to keep costs under control. We clearly need a re-think on healthcare.

When will you wake up  @byron78?

 

You know something there are people on this forum that are realists and economics is not hard to understand. We run our own budgets /households  & businesses and should apply that to government. You would never be able to spend more than you have for years and years or let costs get out of control. I believe Thatcher called it "pocket book economics". Gov't should run like a household.  It is not special or exempt from the laws of fiscal sanity . 

 

Edited by Warlord
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5 hours ago, Pop321 said:

Tomorrow’s fish and chip paper. Dividend tax still 1/3 of income tax and CGT only 1/2….for those who are smart enough this whole NI and care home tax is just something to be shuffled about and avoided.

 

Yes, I for one welcome this levy.

…It makes salary sacrifice schemes even sweeter 😂

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1 hour ago, Warlord said:

It USED to be £50 billion a year under Blair and Brown

Talk about not being able to keep costs under control. We clearly need a re-think on healthcare.

When will you wake up  @byron78?

 

You know something there are people on this forum that are realists and economics is not hard to understand. We run our own budgets /households  & businesses and should apply that to government. You would never be able to spend more than you have for years and years or let costs get out of control. I believe Thatcher called it "pocket book economics". Gov't should run like a household.  It is not special or exempt from the laws of fiscal sanity . 

 

What a load of tosh.

How many households here have a machine that can literally print money?

Thankfully the BOE has, which explains why historic UK budgets have almost ALWAYS run a deficit since the year dot.

 

 

 

Edited by byron78
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4 hours ago, Warlord said:

I remember when I started caring about this stuff in 99 or 00 the budget for the NHS was £50bn .

And I thought that was a lot back then.

Clearly healthcare needs to be privatized which is quite a controversial thing to say.

It has been privatiized and that is why it is expensive and out of control.  The NHS is a project manager employing private contractors and agency staff.  25% of the budget goes on managing its so-called internal market.  The government has no authority over NHS Trusts, they are businesses.

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Only about 20% of the UK population is over 65, but, since 2007, two thirds of all the extra wealth created in the UK has gone to them.

It depends how you look at it though.

The only way to realise some of that housing wealth, as cash, without getting ripped off, is to move to a cheaper area and/or downsize.

The fact is, it is either the offspring or the social care industry who are going to realise it as cash. 

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5 hours ago, captainb said:

You do realise you can't die twice right?

All those dying in their 90s in an old people's home with dementia were not long for this world, covid or not.

Something often lost on those pushing for kids to be off school for years and years to protect them

I guess that could explain it.  The death rate has been below average for some months now I believe.

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5 hours ago, kzb said:

We don't know for a fact if we can avoid the social care levy by salary sacrifice.

We kind of do - the only reason the salary sacrifice loophole exists is because the government can’t think of a way to close it.

They hate salary sacrifice and would have got rid of it years ago if they  could. 

No different here - how can you be taxed 1.25% of something you never received….?

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10 hours ago, Frugal Git said:

Yes, I for one welcome this levy.

…It makes salary sacrifice schemes even sweeter 😂

They give you lemons…….😉

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7 hours ago, kzb said:

 

The fact is, it is either the offspring or the social care industry who are going to realise it as cash. 

And who do they sell to?

Loads of the next generation who have borrowed at unprecedented levels from banks.

Banks benefit big time. In fact, you'd have to say they've done extraordinarily well off the back of a Global Financial Crisis. 

 

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