FTB-house-hunter Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 £11,000 for the cheap version and £14,000 for the best spec version. How on earth are manufactures in the EU going to complete, when the china ev's turn up? Most aren't even planning to come to market with the small hatchbacks for 4-6 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, smash said: So you're like a climate scientist then? There's no reason I couldn't have been one. I'm not even sure you can do a degree in Climate Science. If you can it's a very recent invention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, PeanutButter said: 😂 Can’t wait to process their ice core samples 😂 🪑👨🔬 Have a good long think about how you would get to be a "climate scientist". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 44 minutes ago, smash said: So you're like a climate scientist then? Here is a true climate scientist, background in physics and meteorology, ex-NASA, have a look at the video. https://gript.ie/the-science-is-not-settled-irish-climate-scientist-speaks-out/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, kzb said: Let's just say I am scientifically qualified, which is one step up on the leader of the Green Party (English), the secretary of state for BEIS (Classics and History) and the Chairman of the UK's independent Committee on Climate Change (History). I'm pretty sure the Green Party leader has a history working in mechanical engineering. Nice of them to let her have a go without any science... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 41 minutes ago, byron78 said: I'm pretty sure the Green Party leader has a history working in mechanical engineering. Nice of them to let her have a go without any science... I was thinking of that Caroline Lucas. The current co-leader is indeed a mechanical engineering graduate. Worked in renewable energy consultancy -vested interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, kzb said: Have a good long think about how you would get to be a "climate scientist". Have a good long think about providing us with your credentials for knowing MORE about the earth's climate than NASA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, kzb said: Here is a true climate scientist, background in physics and meteorology, ex-NASA, have a look at the video. https://gript.ie/the-science-is-not-settled-irish-climate-scientist-speaks-out/ This guy? https://www.desmog.com/2017/11/10/victory-journalist-accuracy-complaint-contrarian-climate-scientist-thrown-out/ Super weird that he raised a press complaint about being described as a climate change denier... 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 22 minutes ago, PeanutButter said: This guy? https://www.desmog.com/2017/11/10/victory-journalist-accuracy-complaint-contrarian-climate-scientist-thrown-out/ Super weird that he raised a press complaint about being described as a climate change denier... 🙄 He lost! 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 38 minutes ago, byron78 said: He lost! 🤣 🤌 chef's kiss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, PeanutButter said: This guy? https://www.desmog.com/2017/11/10/victory-journalist-accuracy-complaint-contrarian-climate-scientist-thrown-out/ Super weird that he raised a press complaint about being described as a climate change denier... 🙄 So a bunch of journalists (with hardly a science O' level between them I bet) know better than a professor of meteorology? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, PeanutButter said: Have a good long think about providing us with your credentials for knowing MORE about the earth's climate than NASA. I can critically evaluate material. That is enough, you should try it some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, kzb said: So a bunch of journalists (with hardly a science O' level between them I bet) know better than a professor of meteorology? Hey, it's questioning the orthodox, religiously accepted truth! And there's the problem, the attitude is very much one of religious zealotry. Even though I'm in (rough) agreement with it the dogmatic approach to this, and many other issues, is bloody disturbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, kzb said: So a bunch of journalists (with hardly a science O' level between them I bet) know better than a professor of meteorology? Or, retired jumped-up weather forecaster (with hardly any other scientists in agreement) knows better than an Irish judge? I mean, I've met qualified doctors who also swear by crystals and/or various Gods. Someone being qualified doesn't always mean they're rational. Bates reminds me of many an old boy like myself who, up until a few years ago at least, could simply never be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, byron78 said: Or, retired jumped-up weather forecaster (with hardly any other scientists in agreement) knows better than an Irish judge? I mean, I've met qualified doctors who also swear by crystals and/or various Gods. Someone being qualified doesn't always mean they're rational. Bates reminds me of many an old boy like myself who, up until a few years ago at least, could simply never be wrong. On the other hand, science is not a democracy. And, it is never settled, otherwise it is not science. Anyway, he says himself that he counts as one of the 97% of climate scientists. He's obviously more than a jumped up weather forecaster. He has publications in peer-reviewed climate science journals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Hey, it's questioning the orthodox, religiously accepted truth! And there's the problem, the attitude is very much one of religious zealotry. Even though I'm in (rough) agreement with it the dogmatic approach to this, and many other issues, is bloody disturbing. The professor, in common with many other scientists, is basically saying the science is not settled. Having looked into it a bit myself I can see this is true. I can make a judgement based on what I read. Even many "climate scientists" are now saying their models run too hot. They are questioning the climate sensitivity. Bates' own work found it to be 1 degree. The IPCC say it is likely somewhere between 1.5 and 4.5 degrees, but they carefully excluded Bates and other workers from their literature search who found lower values. Also, saying it is somewhere between 1.5 and 4.5 hardly says it is settled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 hours ago, PeanutButter said: Have a good long think about providing us with your credentials for knowing MORE about the earth's climate than NASA. Question: what are you doing about the property rentals you own with respect to carbon zero? (You've neglected to say whether you really wanted to double UK domestic energy prices as well.) What are your plans for installing heat pumps and cladding for insulation? Are you going to install solar panels and battery storage so that your tenants can have some security of supply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 50 minutes ago, byron78 said: Or, retired jumped-up weather forecaster (with hardly any other scientists in agreement) knows better than an Irish judge? Being in disagreement with a majority of other scientists on a matter of your speciality raises questions (although not enough alone to get the crackpot label). Being in disagreement with a judge does not, whether they're Irish or from anywhere else. When it comes to scientific matters being qualified as a judge means about as much as being an HPC poster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 58 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Hey, it's questioning the orthodox, religiously accepted truth! And there's the problem, the attitude is very much one of religious zealotry. Even though I'm in (rough) agreement with it the dogmatic approach to this, and many other issues, is bloody disturbing. John Gibbons (the journalist behind the article being judged) sounds like a nasty piece of work, as well as having no relevant qualifications. Just Google him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Being in disagreement with a majority of other scientists on a matter of your speciality raises questions (although not enough alone to get the crackpot label). Being in disagreement with a judge does not, whether they're Irish or from anywhere else. When it comes to scientific matters being qualified as a judge means about as much as being an HPC poster. The ombudsman was actually at great pains to state it was not his job to judge on the veracity or not of man made climate change. The complaint failed only because the ombudsman could not find an instance where the article had specifically called Bates a denier. It only associated him with deniers, which is not the same thing. They got off on a technicality really. He did imply that Bates could have a valid complaint under ageism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 5 hours ago, kzb said: Let's just say I am scientifically qualified, which is one step up on the leader of the Green Party (English), Carla Denyer, leader of Green Party of England and Wales, has a Mechanical Engineering Degree from Durham University, and experience working as an engineer for a Wind Energy Company. You are right to say she is not a climate scientist. However, I suspect you are wrong to say she is less of a climate scientist than you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandOfConfusion Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, kzb said: The ombudsman was actually at great pains to state it was not his job to judge on the veracity or not of man made climate change. The complaint failed only because the ombudsman could not find an instance where the article had specifically called Bates a denier. It only associated him with deniers, which is not the same thing. They got off on a technicality really. They didn't actually call him a climate change "denier" but rather posed some sort of presumably weak association with that group. I would suggest that's no more a "technicality" than being found innocent a "technicality". 14 minutes ago, kzb said: He did imply that Bates could have a valid complaint under ageism. Quote Finally, the Ombudsman decides that the only prejudice that Bates’ complaint could refer to is that of his age, and that “there is no evidence that Professor Bates’ age was a factor in the magazine’s reporting of the issues”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 5 hours ago, kzb said: I'm not even sure you can do a degree in Climate Science. If you can it's a very recent invention. You could do a degree in ecological and environmental science (which included a section on atmosphere and climate) at the university I went to. And that was last century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, kzb said: The professor, in common with many other scientists, is basically saying the science is not settled. Having looked into it a bit myself I can see this is true. I can make a judgement based on what I read. Even many "climate scientists" are now saying their models run too hot. They are questioning the climate sensitivity. Bates' own work found it to be 1 degree. The IPCC say it is likely somewhere between 1.5 and 4.5 degrees, but they carefully excluded Bates and other workers from their literature search who found lower values. Also, saying it is somewhere between 1.5 and 4.5 hardly says it is settled. So you're saying that science (as it currently stands, unsettled) should not inform policy? If so then why are you complaining about MPs and policy makers not being scientifically qualified? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said: Carla Denyer, leader of Green Party of England and Wales, has a Mechanical Engineering Degree from Durham University, and experience working as an engineer for a Wind Energy Company. You are right to say she is not a climate scientist. However, I suspect you are wrong to say she is less of a climate scientist than you are. Engineering is not really a science. It uses scientific principles, but true science is actually all about scepticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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