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Nationwide House Price Index July 21 Falls


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5 minutes ago, Si1 said:

What do I do then, just pop in and have a chat at a quiet time?

You make friends with them. You establish an empathy, and regularly renew it via face to face conversation. One day you'll go in and they'll remember your name! And you do this with a range of agents. 

No emailing. Emails are worthless. F2F or calls. Get some warmth going, try to understand how hard it is for them to get inventory these days. 

Sales people aren't usually introverts, they feed off other people's energy. 

But if all this is too much hard work, then by all means continue doing what you're already doing, I'm sure it might work eventually. People letterbox our area, saying they want to buy. You could try and appeal to sellers directly. Yes, the market is difficult at the moment but there are ways to be proactive and give yourself an edge.

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43 minutes ago, Si1 said:

And there's the billion dollar question, where is all this spare consumer cash going to end up.

If we have all this inflationary spending on houses and other stuff ongoing, then eventually either (1) it will stop like the BoE say it will or (2) it won't and they'll raise rates.

Either way it will stop being funneled into property somehow. But exactly how and when I cannot say.

Yeah, we live in an strange era.

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20 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

You make friends with them. You establish an empathy, and regularly renew it via face to face conversation. One day you'll go in and they'll remember your name! And you do this with a range of agents. 

No emailing. Emails are worthless. F2F or calls. Get some warmth going, try to understand how hard it is for them to get inventory these days. 

Sales people aren't usually introverts, they feed off other people's energy. 

But if all this is too much hard work, then by all means continue doing what you're already doing, I'm sure it might work eventually. People letterbox our area, saying they want to buy. You could try and appeal to sellers directly. Yes, the market is difficult at the moment but there are ways to be proactive and give yourself an edge.

Fair enough. Doesn't sound like there's a hurry. I'll pop in to a few when it's quiet.

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27 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

Are you in touch with agents? What I mean by this is are you going in and having a pleasant chat with them at a quiet time, explaining your situation (don't underestimate the value of a sob story), and asking them to keep you in mind when something in your budget comes up? This includes places that have fallen through, tricky deceased estates, those places that they just want a patient buyer who will shut up and wait for everything to get sorted without nagging them. 

My feeling is there will be another burst before winter sets in (people want to be in their new houses for Xmas) and then the overpriced places that didn't sell in summer might start to consider reasonable offers. 

Hi there - thanks for your kind reply.

Did you see the size of the area we are looking in ? North Wales to Cornwall !!!
Would really like to be back down south,  so it is a long way from the caravan in mid Wales to talk to agents. :O(
I know, from talking to local (Wales) agents  earlier this year that they had over 120 people on their books looking! 

Trouble is all the overpriced stuff from the summer that we are looking at is selling within a week. 
Having been looking at properties on and off for years  this market is not like any other. 

Even 6 months ago a property would come on, have no takers and reduce but everything seems to have changed. 

We had to adjust from getting something equal to the value of the property we sold to realising we would have to add £20,000 then £30,000 (so any  money to supplement basic state pension gone) but now it's £60,000 and bidding wars and we are fecked tbh! 
Hindsight ay! 

We thought we didn't have to grab any old property as we thought we still had time to choose but seems we should have grabbed one of the overpriced ones  at £250,000 that didn't have heating because now something similar would be £280,000 and still old windows and no heating. 

Lord knows what we are going to do, we are wearing out our welcome in the caravan which we were only supposed to be in until March ! 

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16 minutes ago, Dweller said:

Hi there - thanks for your kind reply.

Did you see the size of the area we are looking in ? North Wales to Cornwall !!!
Would really like to be back down south,  so it is a long way from the caravan in mid Wales to talk to agents. :O(
I know, from talking to local (Wales) agents  earlier this year that they had over 120 people on their books looking! 

Trouble is all the overpriced stuff from the summer that we are looking at is selling within a week. 
Having been looking at properties on and off for years  this market is not like any other. 

Even 6 months ago a property would come on, have no takers and reduce but everything seems to have changed. 

We had to adjust from getting something equal to the value of the property we sold to realising we would have to add £20,000 then £30,000 (so any  money to supplement basic state pension gone) but now it's £60,000 and bidding wars and we are fecked tbh! 
Hindsight ay! 

We thought we didn't have to grab any old property as we thought we still had time to choose but seems we should have grabbed one of the overpriced ones  at £250,000 that didn't have heating because now something similar would be £280,000 and still old windows and no heating. 

Lord knows what we are going to do, we are wearing out our welcome in the caravan which we were only supposed to be in until March ! 

Apartments are cratering, I believe....

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51 minutes ago, Dweller said:

Hi there - thanks for your kind reply.

Did you see the size of the area we are looking in ? North Wales to Cornwall !!!
Would really like to be back down south,  so it is a long way from the caravan in mid Wales to talk to agents. :O(
I know, from talking to local (Wales) agents  earlier this year that they had over 120 people on their books looking! 

Ah that is a big area, possibly too big because you aren't able to focus. We had this problem a few years ago in that we were after a very specific type of house design and had all of SE and London to find it in. Took 3 years and that was in a normal market. 

What are your exact requirements, the things that are non-negotiable?

Are all your zoopla and rightmove alerts set up for instant notification?

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3 hours ago, Dweller said:

These were on last week both sold with multiple viewings, multiple offers and then best offers by Friday. 

They haven't been SOLD until the transaction completes. Watch what happens over next 6 months, if they complete and hit the land registry at those prices then fine.

Two houses we viewed last June are still SSTC on Rightmove, there's a long way to go for these properties and there are many things that can happen between SSTC and completion which can impact final selling price (survey results, chain collapse) and whether the chain actually completes or not.

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2 minutes ago, Smiley George said:

They haven't been SOLD until the transaction completes. Watch what happens over next 6 months, if they complete and hit the land registry at those prices then fine.

Two houses we viewed last June are still SSTC on Rightmove, there's a long way to go for these properties and there are many things that can happen between SSTC and completion which can impact final selling price (survey results, chain collapse) and whether the chain actually completes or not.

Good point. Worried to death about finding something finally and then being stuck in a chain for 6 months + and the whole chain falling apart, not only loss of money but we can't keep renting this caravan which we were supposed to out of by March 21! 

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2 hours ago, Dweller said:

Hi there - thanks for your kind reply.

Did you see the size of the area we are looking in ? North Wales to Cornwall !!!
Would really like to be back down south,  so it is a long way from the caravan in mid Wales to talk to agents. :O(
I know, from talking to local (Wales) agents  earlier this year that they had over 120 people on their books looking! 

Trouble is all the overpriced stuff from the summer that we are looking at is selling within a week. 
Having been looking at properties on and off for years  this market is not like any other. 

Even 6 months ago a property would come on, have no takers and reduce but everything seems to have changed. 

We had to adjust from getting something equal to the value of the property we sold to realising we would have to add £20,000 then £30,000 (so any  money to supplement basic state pension gone) but now it's £60,000 and bidding wars and we are fecked tbh! 
Hindsight ay! 

We thought we didn't have to grab any old property as we thought we still had time to choose but seems we should have grabbed one of the overpriced ones  at £250,000 that didn't have heating because now something similar would be £280,000 and still old windows and no heating. 

Lord knows what we are going to do, we are wearing out our welcome in the caravan which we were only supposed to be in until March ! 

Presumably you sold a property for somewhere in the region of 250k? Presumably as well that was mortgage free, cash in your bank account? Are you not able to afford a small mortgage to make up your shortfall? It is either that or you have to downsize your expectations. In the huge area you have stated, you will have thousands of properties that you can afford, they might just not be what you would like, but there is the rub of life. 
 

My parents sold to rent 15 or so years ago, and a similar house nearby just sold for 750k - over double what they accepted. They ended up being priced out of London as they didn’t want to live in a retirement flat or a small flat elsewhere, and ended up moving to the south coast where they are by all accounts miserable and wished they’d never sold our four bed idillic family home. It comes up over Christmas dinner most years, and if they could rewind time they’d be happily back in our old family home living the high life. 
 

In terms of what to do, only you can answer that. Over the last 20 years, this forum has been so utterly wrong with its predictions of doom except for a blip in 2008 - I’d suggest using another website’s crystal ball as this one is well and truly <insert expletive>. You are ultimately amongst the vast majority of people in this country who can’t afford what they aspire to. Whether that is fair or not is irrelevant, it is your situation. If it were me, I’d want some security in older age, so I’d be buying what I can now and getting on with enjoying retirement. You are really in a lucky position if you can buy a house / flat for cash as that gives you two state pensions to spend pretty much entirely on having fun. Nobody here can tell you what prices will do in the next however many years however strongly they profess to be able to do so, and the regular posters continue to be wrong about the crash year after year after year. Unless you haven’t told us the whole story, you are actually in a pretty good position, and I bet you could find houses, flats, seaside retreats, whatever in your search area if you are prepared to compromise. 

Edited by Twenty Something
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2 hours ago, msi said:

😁  When I venture into an EA's, I try to avoid the perma-smile in a suit and look to the corner to find the jaded face

 

2 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Exactly! This is the guy to listen to, he (or she) will know you aren't going to mess him around, you're serious.

Why would anyone venture into an EA's in this day and age? Everything is online. 

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48 minutes ago, Dweller said:

Good point. Worried to death about finding something finally and then being stuck in a chain for 6 months + and the whole chain falling apart, not only loss of money but we can't keep renting this caravan which we were supposed to out of by March 21! 

To emphasise the fragility of chains at the moment, I've just checked my Rightmove searches today and there are 3 properties back up for sale that were previously SSTC over last 6 months - prices are the same as they were previously listed for.

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42 minutes ago, Twenty Something said:

Presumably you sold a property for somewhere in the region of 250k? Presumably as well that was mortgage free, cash in your bank account? Are you not able to afford a small mortgage to make up your shortfall? It is either that or you have to downsize your expectations. In the huge area you have stated, you will have thousands of properties that you can afford, they might just not be what you would like, but there is the rub of life. 
 

My parents sold to rent 15 or so years ago, and a similar house nearby just sold for 750k - over double what they accepted. They ended up being priced out of London as they didn’t want to live in a retirement flat or a small flat elsewhere, and ended up moving to the south coast where they are by all accounts miserable and wished they’d never sold our four bed idillic family home. It comes up over Christmas dinner most years, and if they could rewind time they’d be happily back in our old family home living the high life. 
 

In terms of what to do, only you can answer that. Over the last 20 years, this forum has been so utterly wrong with its predictions of doom except for a blip in 2008 - I’d suggest using another website’s crystal ball as this one is well and truly <insert expletive>. You are ultimately amongst the vast majority of people in this country who can’t afford what they aspire to. Whether that is fair or not is irrelevant, it is your situation. If it were me, I’d want some security in older age, so I’d be buying what I can now and getting on with enjoying retirement. You are really in a lucky position if you can buy a house / flat for cash as that gives you two state pensions to spend pretty much entirely on having fun. Nobody here can tell you what prices will do in the next however many years however strongly they profess to be able to do so, and the regular posters continue to be wrong about the crash year after year after year. Unless you haven’t told us the whole story, you are actually in a pretty good position, and I bet you could find houses, flats, seaside retreats, whatever in your search area if you are prepared to compromise. 

Thanks for your post. Very sad to hear about your parents,  regret is such a difficult thing to live with. 

Love the idea that we can spend our pensions having fun, do you know how much the state pension is and how much the shopping bill/council tax/heating/ etc is? Certainly can't afford or would even get a mortgage on two state pensions at 70+ 

Sadly compromise is one thing, 16 people bidding for the same property is another :O( 



 

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42 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

 

Why would anyone venture into an EA's in this day and age? Everything is online. 

To get to the 'secret' list of houses for sale; the ones that go without hitting RM.  Most go under asking (but with no RM listing there's no proof).   Current lists are pretty thin with stock and with asking prices insane (this is according to the jaded EA off the record.  Brokers getting mortgages through with 'creative' form filling)

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54 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Why would anyone venture into an EA's in this day and age? Everything is online. 

:D Homo Sapiens - 200,000 years of face to face communication

vs

14 years of iphones

 

But be my guest and establish a rapport with your local agents via online contact. Perhaps liking all their instragram posts for the last year will do it 🤪

 

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35 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

:D Homo Sapiens - 200,000 years of face to face communication

vs

14 years of iphones

 

But be my guest and establish a rapport with your local agents via online contact. Perhaps liking all their instragram posts for the last year will do it 🤪

 

Just read your post and then I was clicking RM and read this: 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111071597#/?channel=RES_BUY

Property description

Tenure: Freehold

IN THE FIRST INSTANCE PLEASE EMAIL YOUR ENQUIRY TO US - STATING YOUR BUYING POSITION & NUMEROUS DATES AND TIMES YOU ARE AVAILABLE TO VIEW


Wasn't there a thread last week saying about agents charging to view properties? 

Meant to say earlier that my laptop went in for repair and I said to my daughter that they said they were going to replace the keyboard (most of the letters were gone). My daughter said what letters were missing was it R - I-G-H-T-M-O-V-E!  

 

 

 

Edited by Dweller
Forgot link !
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8 minutes ago, ucnvpe0 said:

It's going off-topic. If you want to know what these businesses would have done with the cash, there are enough resources online to read up on it.

No, it isn't, unless this post was also off topic

5 hours ago, ucnvpe0 said:

...two effects have driven that change: first, the direct effects it has had on saving and borrowing behaviour; and second, the indirect effects on the value of household balance sheets through asset price changes. In aggregate, households have increased nominal savings by around £125billion more than would have been expected absent the pandemic and at the same time, non-credit card consumer debt has fallen by around £10 billion.



https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/wealth-gap-year/

People seem to think that cash disappears in a puff of smoke once they spend it. It doesn't; cash is at all times savings to someone.

If households have £125 billion more than they would usually, either that cash is new to the economy, or businesses, not being households, have made a net reduction of £125billion in their cash reserves.

Where else is the money going to come from?

Further, the fall in consumer debt represents the destruction of that amount of cash, so in total consumers would have pulled £135 billion in from somewhere.

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2 hours ago, Dweller said:

Thanks for your post. Very sad to hear about your parents,  regret is such a difficult thing to live with. 

Love the idea that we can spend our pensions having fun, do you know how much the state pension is and how much the shopping bill/council tax/heating/ etc is? Certainly can't afford or would even get a mortgage on two state pensions at 70+ 

Sadly compromise is one thing, 16 people bidding for the same property is another :O( 



 

So, this is maybe all going to come across as a bit blunt, but you have circa 250k of cash in your bank account, and assuming that you get the full pension allowance, receive £179.60 per week each, which is £359.20 as a couple, and in the region therefore of £1436.80 a month. What do you want for council tax, utilities and a weekly shop? The £436.80? So you in essence have a grand month between you both to do with as you will, which is I would suggest quite a bit more than a lot of people who go out to work have once they have paid what is usually the biggest expense - the mortgage / rent. Now this isn't to begrudge you at all of your pensions, I'm more than happy you are receiving them, but you are in a financial position that a lot of people up and down the country can only dream of. If you are getting outbid on properties then you clearly need to set your sights lower. As per the above, this may not be to your liking, but with a quarter of a million quid in the bank and a regular income, you're not going to convince me that there is nothing that you can afford, or that everything in the areas you have looked at is poor quality / a bomb site. 

Looking on Rightmove for any property within 40 miles of Cardiff and a maximum price of £200k brings back 4,372 results, and filtering for a minimum of three beds shows 1,184 results. Want to splash out on four beds and you have 143 properties, and if you want a bit of a doer upper, 26 5 bed properties to choose from. You still then have 50k cash in the bank to have a party with. Head to Yeovil in Somerset with £200k and you have 3,052 properties to choose from within 40 miles. So yes, I think compromise is the word, and it is what I would be doing if I was currently living in a caravan as winter approaches. 

At 70+, what sort of property are you after? Why would you want a large house or huge expanse of land which you may struggle to upkeep? Why not go see the world? Why not rent somewhere and use your lump sum of cash to supplement your bills alongside your pension? So many options. If the long fabled crash happens tomorrow it is going to take years before prices reach the bottom. So you are 80+ and can finally buy that dream house to do what with? 

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1 hour ago, Dweller said:

Just read your post and then I was clicking RM and read this: 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111071597#/?channel=RES_BUY

Property description

Tenure: Freehold

IN THE FIRST INSTANCE PLEASE EMAIL YOUR ENQUIRY TO US - STATING YOUR BUYING POSITION & NUMEROUS DATES AND TIMES YOU ARE AVAILABLE TO VIEW


Wasn't there a thread last week saying about agents charging to view properties? 

Meant to say earlier that my laptop went in for repair and I said to my daughter that they said they were going to replace the keyboard (most of the letters were gone). My daughter said what letters were missing was it R - I-G-H-T-M-O-V-E!  

 

 

 

Not exactly being forced to slum it then - a large three bed family home with extensive garden and all within spitting distance of the Cotswolds. I bet there is a lot of competition for a place like that from people wanting space to bring up a family primarily, but no totally suitable for a couple of retirees who need all that space because the grandchildren visit once a month? 

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4 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

:D Homo Sapiens - 200,000 years of face to face communication

vs

14 years of iphones

 

But be my guest and establish a rapport with your local agents via online contact. Perhaps liking all their instragram posts for the last year will do it 🤪

 

Fair enough. I just don't see many EA shops surviving the next 5 years once the dinosaurs who use them die out. 😜

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