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Is the current system we live under Fascism?


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48 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

The right to have something does not mean, and never has meant, that someone else is obliged to hand it out to you. They are obliged to not put barriers in your way though.

Can you give an example of someone putting barrier in the way of one of the rights mentioned?

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1 hour ago, Staffsknot said:

If you provided some - it would be denounced as 'evil' and a 'violence' anyway

Are you confused? He would hopefully be agreeing with me, since I am asking him what he thinks constitutes an immoral violation of someone's rights.

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Just now, Locke said:

Are you confused? He would hopefully be agreeing with me, since I am asking him what he thinks constitutes an immoral violation of someone's rights.

Did you mean general examples of the sorts of things? I thought you meant specific examples of it happening in reality.

The usual one I use is freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to be given a soapbox, and if you're using someone else's then they've got the right to have it back. Taking your own soapbox off you would be though. But remember I'm also not absolutist in anything (even if I commonly sound like it, by not being I just mean I still entertain the possibility that exceptions can exist, even if no-one's presented me with one I think does).

Blocking someone's right to education for example would mean denying them the chance to go to school. Not having enough money isn't enough to constitute that - you can still go if you can get the money, not that I want to defend the idea of only having private education.

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Gramsci was imprisoned by fascists,so he had plenty of inclination and time to think about it. "The old is dying but the young cannot be born; in this interregnum a variety of morbid symptoms appear" Isn't that precisely what we have been seeing since the financial crisis, a variety of morbid symptoms?

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On 26/07/2021 at 11:16, Locke said:

Can you give an example of someone putting barrier in the way of one of the rights mentioned?

The Enclosure Acts?

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On 27/07/2021 at 08:48, byron78 said:

 

The elite of the elite running the show. Important to remember where we currently are sometimes (but it's not fascism).

 

 

Whats your vision of who should be in charge Byron? one of the problems of Marxism is that Marx wrote a brilliant critique of Capitalism but never gave a clear account of what socialism/communism was. Just vague stuff about the workers controlling the means of production etc. Yes Boris is a tw*t, as was cameron and blair. but Stalin was far far worse. You have to give a reasoned argument for what is better.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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9 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

 Yes Boris is a tw*t, as was cameron and blair. but Stalin was far far worse. You have to give a reasoned argument for what is better.

The Weimar Republic was insanely corrupt and dysfunctional, but the Nazis were similarly corrupt with the added "bonus" of being murderously capricious and living in a dark fantasy world.

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1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

Whats your vision of who should be in charge Byron? one of the problems of Marxism is that Marx wrote a brilliant critique of Capitalism but never gave a clear account of what socialism/communism was. Just vague stuff about the workers controlling the means of production etc. Yes Boris is a tw*t, as was cameron and blair. but Stalin was far far worse. You have to give a reasoned argument for what is better.

You had a chance to vote for something better. Twice.

Mainstream European democratic socialism.

22473270-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

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1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

You had a chance to vote for something better. Twice.

Mainstream European democratic socialism.

22473270-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

As I've said elsewhere, democracy is not about the rule of the will of the people. Its all about a last line of defence to remove a tyrant or truly bad government, or possibly to nudge one party or another in a slightly different direction for the next 10 years. Institutions like the civil service and police and NHS run Britain and by and large tecnological developments globally determine the future.

National institutions do a better job of it than a party would do, because they have experience on doing an actual job of work over the long term.

For most people, Johnsons conservatives and Jeremy's Labour both smell bad, but I don't think anyone views either as tyrannical.

We don't live in a country that is ruled by the will of the people exercised every N years, and this is no different to any other country. So you can't blame voters, IMO.

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On 23/07/2021 at 12:04, Warlord said:

"papers please"  / vaccine passports definitely are fascistic. People can deny it all they want but that harks back to Nazi Germany or Mussolini's Italy in the 20's and 30's 

 

Or being stopped by a policeman in the states for speeding. You can make anything fit the argument if you try hard enough 

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I agree that a political party is only a name, once elected they can choose to rule within a large parameter whatever their majority......it is the leader and who they choose to support them that will make the difference between good, ethical and fair governance....;)

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, zugzwang said:

You had a chance to vote for something better. Twice.

Mainstream European democratic socialism.

22473270-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

He came within 50,000 votes of getting elected

When you say "you had the chance" you're probably addressing many of his voters.

I don't vote and never intend to so never had that opportunity.

Edited by Warlord
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13 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

Whats your vision of who should be in charge Byron? one of the problems of Marxism is that Marx wrote a brilliant critique of Capitalism but never gave a clear account of what socialism/communism was. Just vague stuff about the workers controlling the means of production etc. Yes Boris is a tw*t, as was cameron and blair. but Stalin was far far worse. You have to give a reasoned argument for what is better.

Again, I view capitalism and socialism as transitionary. They are not absolute positions.

The best system I ever saw in this country was having a properly leftwing Labour party and having a rightwing Tory party who weren't beholden to globalists yet. They balanced each other well.

We had a centrist Labour party, and from that we've had progressively "hard" right Tory governments since 2010. It keeps failing, and the headbangers keep doubling down. UK is already back to the 1970s in many ways. Yesterday I watched a road wash away and there are all sorts of food and supply shortages down here in the Isle of Wight I've never seen before.

But you're right about Marx. He didn't define socialism because I'm not sure he thought he needed to (viewed as transitionary, and he actually thought globalism would end up killing capitalism as most traditionally knew it anyway. Which is sort of happening I suppose). 

 

Edited by byron78
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