Working from home dies a death - remote switches to hybrid... lots of people in trouble because of unworkable commutes

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

Daily Hate goes full attack dog mode on WFH:

 

 

Cut pay for working at home: Minister wants to slash wages of civil servants who have not returned to the office since Covid restrictions were lifted

• Cabinet minister said it was unfair civil servants at home get the same benefits 
• Suggested those working from home should be paid less than those in the office
• Government recommended staff make 'gradual return' to offices over summer

 

Civil servants who refuse to return to the office should be paid less than those back at their desks, a Cabinet minister suggested last night.

The Government has recommended employees make a 'gradual return' to offices over the summer after many have spent well over a year working from home because of the pandemic.

But a senior minister told the Mail it was unfair that those still at home should get the same benefits as those commuting in.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9874691/Minister-wants-slash-wages-civil-servants-not-returned-office.html

[Pop321]

1 hour ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Daily Hate goes full attack dog mode on WFH:

 

 

Cut pay for working at home: Minister wants to slash wages of civil servants who have not returned to the office since Covid restrictions were lifted

• Cabinet minister said it was unfair civil servants at home get the same benefits 
• Suggested those working from home should be paid less than those in the office
• Government recommended staff make 'gradual return' to offices over summer

 

Civil servants who refuse to return to the office should be paid less than those back at their desks, a Cabinet minister suggested last night.

The Government has recommended employees make a 'gradual return' to offices over the summer after many have spent well over a year working from home because of the pandemic.

But a senior minister told the Mail it was unfair that those still at home should get the same benefits as those commuting in.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9874691/Minister-wants-slash-wages-civil-servants-not-returned-office.html

Vested interest I assume. 

[coypondboy]

think they are terrified onf the money they will have to spend to subsidise the trains and buses and lots tax revenue from petrol sales if this becomes permanent going forward.  Still they can start selling off those buildings owned by us the tax payer in central london and convert them into flats. 

Planning now much easier to convert commercial buildings as part of build back better and think how much money they could raise by looking how much money the Candy brothers charged for the chelsea barracks development.  We could give a small flat in buckingham palace to the queen when she visits as spends most of her time at Windsor or Balmoral or Sandringham.  

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

1 hour ago, coypondboy said:

think they are terrified onf the money they will have to spend to subsidise the trains and buses and lots tax revenue from petrol sales if this becomes permanent going forward.  Still they can start selling off those buildings owned by us the tax payer in central london and convert them into flats. 

Planning now much easier to convert commercial buildings as part of build back better and think how much money they could raise by looking how much money the Candy brothers charged for the chelsea barracks development.  We could give a small flat in buckingham palace to the queen when she visits as spends most of her time at Windsor or Balmoral or Sandringham.  

I read somewhere that commercial properties are not suitable for converting into residential. Can't remember where I read it. 

[iamnumerate]

9 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Daily Hate goes full attack dog mode on WFH:

 

 

Cut pay for working at home: Minister wants to slash wages of civil servants who have not returned to the office since Covid restrictions were lifted

• Cabinet minister said it was unfair civil servants at home get the same benefits 
• Suggested those working from home should be paid less than those in the office
• Government recommended staff make 'gradual return' to offices over summer

 

Civil servants who refuse to return to the office should be paid less than those back at their desks, a Cabinet minister suggested last night.

The Government has recommended employees make a 'gradual return' to offices over the summer after many have spent well over a year working from home because of the pandemic.

But a senior minister told the Mail it was unfair that those still at home should get the same benefits as those commuting in.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9874691/Minister-wants-slash-wages-civil-servants-not-returned-office.html

If you read the article it is ministers who are behind the attack not the daily mail per se.

This bit is interesting

Quote

The minister said people should be 'keen to get back to normal', adding that it was difficult to know whether someone at home was working or watching television.

The thing is that I know someone who used to print out books and read them in the office

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

If you read the article it is ministers who are behind the attack not the daily mail per se.

This bit is interesting

The thing is that I know someone who used to print out books and read them in the office

You mean the unnamed ‘ministers’ as their source?
 

I smell BS. It’s a DM puff piece. 

[hotblack42]

On 07/08/2021 at 15:12, GregBowman said:

In IBM the corporate term which was bandied around was we are a single status company. We understood that to mean something different - you can have one status at a time 😉 You are just seeing how it works in practice. Nothing changes.

Nothing changes - yes I agree, Public and Private management are all over the place!

Some told to come back to the office, some told to come back to the office part time, some asked to come back "Its up to you when and for how many days a week" (except its not - you'll have to guess what's OK until they stop telling you "no you can't do that").  Some told to come back between 4 and 8 days a month - again its up to you, but you can bet they'll be sitting in judgement of the days you choose.  Some told to stay away for another year.

I'm sick of this, where's the wise, confident management in this country?

And what really grinds my gears are newspaper headlines referring to "going back to work".
WTF?! We've been working for 17 months you overpaid pieces of filth.
The headlines should be "Going back the office to waste time talking about Corrie/New Kitchen, New Car, impending Holiday, the new girl/lad in accounts.."

Admittedly a rather long headline😄

[GregBowman]

1 minute ago, hotblack42 said:

 

And what really grinds my gears are newspaper headlines referring to "going back to work".

The headlines should be "Going back the office to waste time talking about Corrie/New Kitchen, New Car, impending Holiday, the new girl/lad in accounts.."

 

Totally agree with your work statement sitting here at a screen.

Not so sure the 2nd. Its extreme but  I have a team in Qatar but can't get in. So mirrors to some extent 100% WFH. There are are a myriad of things I can't get moving, fixing or just generally leading remotely. I know you are writing in jest but it's more than discussing the trivia. I could once I have stablished practices etc. I think my situation  is typical of many mid sized businesses

 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

More daily garbage:

 

Why, as a leading boss, I think people should be paid less to work from home: As No.10 slaps down minister who suggested it, Dragons' Den panellist TOUKER SULEYMAN gives his verdict

 

I was delighted to hear yesterday that a Cabinet minister is arguing that people who have returned to work should be paid more than those who prefer to work from home.

When there’s a problem in one of my fashion retail businesses, I want to speak in person to the man or woman on my team who can put it right.

I do not want to schedule four Zoom calls, so we can all lean back in our ergonomically correct chairs and talk as though we are on autopilot.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9878141/Why-leading-boss-think-people-paid-work-home-TOUKER-SULEYMAN.html

[Huggy]

Quote

And nobody can say I am not leading from the front. I have been in the office every day since last March, and I’m pleased to say all but one of the 600 people I employ in the UK have followed suit. (The only exception is someone who has rented out his London home and is living abroad.)

One more employer that will not gain the benefits of my services then. I think there are some quite serious implications of staff working from abroad too if their official location is in the UK. My place found a couple of people were doing that (Global plc) after having 'gone home' and the senior management had a bit of an episode over it. Not sure what the exact reasons are (probably tax) but they had all access removed until they were able to return to the UK.

[winkie]

I thought in the interest of trying to do our bit to save the planet, traveling less, using less fuel, also spending more local, supporting local shops and businesses is a great way of leveling up and strengthening and supporting local communities, getting to know our neighbours and spending more time with our kids.....has to be good.

[Tulip_mania]

13 minutes ago, Huggy said:

One more employer that will not gain the benefits of my services then. I think there are some quite serious implications of staff working from abroad too if their official location is in the UK. My place found a couple of people were doing that (Global plc) after having 'gone home' and the senior management had a bit of an episode over it. Not sure what the exact reasons are (probably tax) but they had all access removed until they were able to return to the UK.

The overseas thing is largely tax, my work had a thing about last year, essentially if you're living and working (from home) in France or many other countries, the employer may be required to pay local equivalents of Employers NI which obviously varies between countries.

In general, I don't think it's unreasonable not to pay London Weighing to people who don't need to go into an office, but if you're doing the job properly, you should be paid the wage properly. The difficulty with hybrid is that even if you only wfh 1 or 2 days a week you still need a proper home office, and post covid rule around ergonomics will have to be observed again. So no working from bed or the sofa, proper desks, monitors and chairs. Companies that think an average of 3 days a week in the office allows them to only pay for 60% of the office space will also hit a problem when all the employees try to wfh Mon & Friday and 80% of staff try to fit into a 60% capacity office Tues-Thurs.

[hurlerontheditch]

46 minutes ago, Tulip_mania said:

The overseas thing is largely tax, my work had a thing about last year, essentially if you're living and working (from home) in France or many other countries, the employer may be required to pay local equivalents of Employers NI which obviously varies between countries.

In general, I don't think it's unreasonable not to pay London Weighing to people who don't need to go into an office, but if you're doing the job properly, you should be paid the wage properly. The difficulty with hybrid is that even if you only wfh 1 or 2 days a week you still need a proper home office, and post covid rule around ergonomics will have to be observed again. So no working from bed or the sofa, proper desks, monitors and chairs. Companies that think an average of 3 days a week in the office allows them to only pay for 60% of the office space will also hit a problem when all the employees try to wfh Mon & Friday and 80% of staff try to fit into a 60% capacity office Tues-Thurs.

three companies I know of are offering a hybrid but its not as and when suits you. you are allocated days on a rotation. wont always be monday and friday WFH

[sammersmith]

1 hour ago, hurlerontheditch said:

three companies I know of are offering a hybrid but its not as and when suits you. you are allocated days on a rotation. wont always be monday and friday WFH

Same for where i am. We're hybrid but the exact days will be dependant on what we have on that week. No rotation as such. If you want to reserve consistent days for WFH, then it's a reduced hours request. This actually suits me as i don't care which particular days i'm in so long as it's not 5 full days per week. 

[Confusion of VIs]

3 hours ago, Huggy said:

One more employer that will not gain the benefits of my services then. I think there are some quite serious implications of staff working from abroad too if their official location is in the UK. My place found a couple of people were doing that (Global plc) after having 'gone home' and the senior management had a bit of an episode over it. Not sure what the exact reasons are (probably tax) but they had all access removed until they were able to return to the UK.

Possibly data security rules were being breached. Lots of data sharing agreements place restrictions on the locations data can be accessed from and the data security regime that needs to be in place. At the moment many people are ignoring the rules but all it will take for that to change is a couple of data breeches related to WFH policies.  

[hurlerontheditch]

9 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Possibly data security rules were being breached. Lots of data sharing agreements place restrictions on the locations data can be accessed from and the data security regime that needs to be in place. At the moment many people are ignoring the rules but all it will take for that to change is a couple of data breeches related to WFH policies.  

bbc try to cover this here

Coronavirus: Can I work from home overseas? - BBC News

[HovelinHove]

I was doing Jury service last week and one of the jurors had moved to our area last year, selling up their home in Chiswick to live the WFH dream. Now one of them has been told they have to be in 5 days a week in West London. 1.5 hr commute from hell. It is because of them houses have been unaffordable in my area, and now because of them panicking and selling up, the house I bought will probably lose 25% of its value! Grrr.

However, I do think those who were more wise and decided to wait before making the plunge, and now see 2-3 days WFH becoming a permanent reality, will now make the move. There could be a bit of churn with those who jumped the gun selling to those who hung on to see what would happen, so prices could just stabilize. I don't see anyone else selling a house though if they don't need to, and with all governments committed to "protecting hard working families" there is no chance of mass repossessions, just a gradual take over the property market by banks with government help.

[Pop321]

52 minutes ago, HovelinHove said:

I was doing Jury service last week and one of the jurors had moved to our area last year, selling up their home in Chiswick to live the WFH dream. Now one of them has been told they have to be in 5 days a week in West London. 1.5 hr commute from hell. It is because of them houses have been unaffordable in my area, and now because of them panicking and selling up, the house I bought will probably lose 25% of its value! Grrr.

However, I do think those who were more wise and decided to wait before making the plunge, and now see 2-3 days WFH becoming a permanent reality, will now make the move. There could be a bit of churn with those who jumped the gun selling to those who hung on to see what would happen, so prices could just stabilize. I don't see anyone else selling a house though if they don't need to, and with all governments committed to "protecting hard working families" there is no chance of mass repossessions, just a gradual take over the property market by banks with government help.

I think the move to WFH will absolutely  increase however the point you raise is spot on.

So for 5 years whilst I worked from home and rarely went into the office…..I was always available. So if in the rare set of circumstances and things really did kick off I would drive in and in the day (outside commute times) it’s only 45 mins. Have said before I had a ‘real’ WFH job rather than a convenience thing it was necessity to allow stretch and also attendance via internet into numerous meetings  

Moving to a whole different part of the UK wasn’t really an option. So these people may well regret moving to the middle of nowhere (not suggesting your home town is the middle of nowhere of course 😆😆) 

[OnionTerror]

14 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

I think the move to WFH will absolutely  increase however the point you raise is spot on.

So for 5 years whilst I worked from home and rarely went into the office…..I was always available. So if in the rare set of circumstances and things really did kick off I would drive in and in the day (outside commute times) it’s only 45 mins. Have said before I had a ‘real’ WFH job rather than a convenience thing it was necessity to allow stretch and also attendance via internet into numerous meetings  

Moving to a whole different part of the UK wasn’t really an option. So these people may well regret moving to the middle of nowhere (not suggesting your home town is the middle of nowhere of course 😆😆) 

"Lets move to the countryside"...So have you checked broadband coverage?

[Si1]

4 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

"Lets move to the countryside"...So have you checked broadband coverage?

Given satellite and mobile broadband options this really doesn't sound like something that would concern me much.

[OnionTerror]

12 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Given satellite and mobile broadband options this really doesn't sound like something that would concern me much.

Depends on where you you want to live...Satellite has latency issues...For instance, there are large parts of the West Country that get poor mobile & broadband signals..

Edited August 10, 2021 by Dave Beans

[Si1]

27 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

Depends on where you you want to live...Satellite has latency issues...For instance, there are large parts of the West Country that get poor mobile & broadband signals..

The new satellite constellations, I'm thinking spacex, are supposed to be outstanding?

I'd like to know where in the UK you can't get good mobile broadband using a dedicated directional antenna up a pole??

[OnionTerror]

5 minutes ago, Si1 said:

The new satellite constellations, I'm thinking spacex, are supposed to be outstanding?

I'd like to know where in the UK you can't get good mobile broadband using a dedicated directional antenna up a pole??

Neglected part of the world is the south west...all the attention is between the SE & NW.  Plaything for the Londonites, train connections are hopeless, and you live in an area with very poor reception (which there are many) you have to try and resort to try and find a network that might support a connection from a MIFI box up a pole.... Freeview reception terrible too.. (which might be a blessing for many!).. 

[coypondboy]

5 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

Neglected part of the world is the south west...all the attention is between the SE & NW.  Plaything for the Londonites, train connections are hopeless, and you live in an area with very poor reception (which there are many) you have to try and resort to try and find a network that might support a connection from a MIFI box up a pole.... Freeview reception terrible too.. (which might be a blessing for many!).. 

Bournemouth has fantastic fibre network and is becoming a new silicon valley as more firms are relocating to the arae from London.  https://www.cityfibre.com/news/bournemouths-digital-future-transformed-35m-full-fibre-roll

Having come from Saltash near Plymouth appreciated it was always the last place for significant investment due to its long distance from London but always evantually catch up and with many Londoners relocating to devon and cornwall to wfh demand will be high to improve internet speeds as commute to London impossible wheras Bournemouth just about do able if you only neeed to go in a couple of days a week.  Now reflected in hpi just look at Winchester now the most expensive city in uk based on prices/wages according to the Halifax https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58162371

[hurlerontheditch]

11 hours ago, Si1 said:

The new satellite constellations, I'm thinking spacex, are supposed to be outstanding?

I'd like to know where in the UK you can't get good mobile broadband using a dedicated directional antenna up a pole??

i used space x on a staycation in the brecon beacons. it was unusable. kept dropping out