Working from home dies a death - remote switches to hybrid... lots of people in trouble because of unworkable commutes

[Pop321]

10 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

The whole thing is becoming a "storm in a teacup" manufactured outrage. Doesn't feel like this should be beyond the wit of man to figure out. 

Some people are really good at working from home, some are shit. Some are great at deluding themselves they're amazing at working from home, some are just lazy and can't be arsed to travel. Some love wfh, some miss friends and colleagues at the office. Doesn't take a genius to figure out a blended approach is likely the most sensible. 

From my perspective, in a more senior role, the biggest issues with wfh are wasters, "lone wolves" who don't really understand their place in the organisation (and how it interacts with others) and people who are over confident in their ability. The problem with the first group is obvious, the problem with the next two is the total lack of flexibility and tunnel vision focus on what they're doing rather than the wider group. 

The reality is, people have had long enough to assess the situation and hybrid is a pretty fair compromise where 100% remote isn't working as well as hoped. I'm currently going in at least once a week, sometimes twice but no more and most people have been pretty receptive to that and we're finding it a nice mix. The office actually feels like a bit of a day out now; you're going in for a purpose, you get a lot done, we're back to picking up bits of info or speeding up projects by the osmosis of being around other people and sometimes there's a few beers and maybe even a curry at the end of it all because- gasp- it is possible to actually like and enjoy spending time with people you work with. It also makes you take wfh less for granted and the contrast makes it less dull; doing the school run then sitting at my kitchen table or spare room desk was becoming as much of a grind as the commute for me by spring this year. 

It's notable that the 3 people we are about to fire for non performance have all universally rebuffed any requests to come back to the office, one on health grounds and the other 2 because they've moved 100 miles + away from the office (one things we don't know yet, which is adorable). There's only 1 other refusenik who is actually approaching a high performer and she sits very firmly in the "thinks she's more valuable to the organisation than she is" category but, to be fair, does deliver work. 

For the rest though, out of a group of 80 or so, everyone else seems to have slotted fairly nicely into the hybrid system and, judging by the increase in traffic, train business abd numbers of people milling about in town and city centres I go to, we're not the only ones. I think the issue is far more down to the fact the loudest voices tend to be at the extremes than a genuine revolt at the prospect of having to go back in on the odd day of the week and if you assumed you'd be able to wfh indefinitely without first having that conversation with your employer (like a grown up), then tough shit basically. 

 

I am a WFH advocate for employees and employers benefit. However it would be exactly in the way you describe…..wouldn’t have worked without periodic visits to the 2/3 offices I worked from.

And you are right about the cohorts of colleagues. 

[Jolly Roger]

2 hours ago, Will! said:

In the public sector WFH has been like one long 'snow day'.  The people who didn't do much work before do even less at home and those who do do the work just carry on.

Yeah for my industry it feels similar, like a snow day for a lot of people who when in the office aren't hugely productive.  As we enter the "hybrid" model it seems Friday is a popular day to take as WFH for obvious reasons.  Though Fridays aren't that busy in the office anyway, with people using flexible working hours to dip out at two or three in the afternoon.  I often find myself turning the lights off on the way out on a Friday afternoon not long after five or even before. 

Feels like the productive minority (20%?) are achieving in and out of the office, as for the rest there is probably a lot of shirking going on at home which is harder to get away with in an open plan office (though you'd be surprised how much time people can spend chatting about BBC news articles or video games).

[iamnumerate]

2 hours ago, Pop321 said:

I harp on about efficiencies and how WFH will be the future because it will benefit savvy employers….but I can totally agree that those who didn’t do much in the office do even less out of it.

It amazes me that some businesses and public services allow it to continue but I suppose it’s difficult not to become part of the system and accept certain limitations. 

Apparently WFH is causing problems in the civil service - but of course they might be a special case.

HGV licenses for example.

[Will!]

27 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said:

Feels like the productive minority (20%?) are achieving in and out of the office, as for the rest there is probably a lot of shirking going on at home which is harder to get away with in an open plan office (though you'd be surprised how much time people can spend chatting about BBC news articles or video games).

I think @Pop321 describes the answer to that very well here:

 

[dpg50000]

2 hours ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

doing the school run then sitting at my kitchen table or spare room desk was becoming as much of a grind as the commute for me by spring this year. 

Agreed. My commute is very short - a blended mix of WFH and office is good for my mental health.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

[dpg50000]

44 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

I know it's not you using the term @MonsieurCopperCrutch, but bloody hell, the term "crisis" is so overused nowadays. The naked campaigning from landlords / Tory backers is just embarrassing now. 

[MARTINX9]

6 minutes ago, dpg50000 said:

I know it's not you using the term @MonsieurCopperCrutch, but bloody hell, the term "crisis" is so overused nowadays. The naked campaigning from landlords / Tory backers is just embarrassing now. 

Exactly - heaven knows how today's generation would have coped pre the 1990s.

There is no real crisis - just a lot of manufactured hysteria inspired by the press and others.  The petrol crisis being one of them - 4 BP petrol stations being out of fuel over a 3 month period suddenly creates mass queues from people who don't need to fill up. And it becomes self fulfilling! Cos above anything else the Brits love a queue!

[Pop321]

1 hour ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Nice find. Great collage. Really forces home the agenda…..commercial rents are an issue for ‘our friends’ so open up those offices.

Most on here have no agenda with commercial landlords (it’s not buy to let) but clearly commercial property owners are an influential lot.

I think I have the hang of this press reporting business so let me have a go:  

Pensions funds of millions of workers  are at risk as commercial property risks fall in price. 

Work from the office of you will get cancer.

Working from home costing employees and employers millions. 

It’s easy this….and it doesn’t even need research. 

[winkie]

Work from anywhere.....from yacht in the Pacific to a lilo in the pool.

[Hullabaloo82]

52 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

Nice find. Great collage. Really forces home the agenda…..commercial rents are an issue for ‘our friends’ so open up those offices.

Most on here have no agenda with commercial landlords (it’s not buy to let) but clearly commercial property owners are an influential lot.

I think I have the hang of this press reporting business so let me have a go:  

Pensions funds of millions of workers  are at risk as commercial property risks fall in price. 

Work from the office of you will get cancer.

Working from home costing employees and employers millions. 

It’s easy this….and it doesn’t even need research. 

I don't think it's even that complex. It's just clickbait that's guaranteed to rile up the Mail's intended audience (just like breathless outrage pieces about being "forced" back into the office are for the Graun etc). Nobody that reads the Mail is wfh or has any agency over it. 

Back in the real world we seem to be quietly settling into a bit of equilibrium. 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

3 hours ago, dpg50000 said:

I know it's not you using the term @MonsieurCopperCrutch, but bloody hell, the term "crisis" is so overused nowadays. The naked campaigning from landlords / Tory backers is just embarrassing now. 

It's so utterly disingenuous the reporting from that rag with their pick and mix collage of the usual tired and dated WFH nonsense. The only crisis that article really encompasses is the one in commercial rent landlordism. Sod 'em. 

[reddog]

4 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

I don't see how the government can scare people into staying in their houses, and then complain when they want to work from home.

 

[Ignorantbliss]

Maybe just me, but that new Mail "get back to the office" slogan seems to be a mixture of these famous WW1 and WW2 posters.

 

[hotblack42]

17 minutes ago, Ignorantbliss said:

that new Mail "get back to the office" slogan

Isn't the DM read mainly by the retired?

Why would anyone feel entitled to dictate terms they themselves are not affected by?

Are they ordering their kids & grandkids back to the office to set an example?

Some people seem to have no problem with subjecting others, at least those not genetically or socially linked to them, at risk, and seem unconcerned about them wasting time & money.

That's not very nice, is it?

[scottbeard]

On 06/08/2021 at 10:43, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

I imagine that with increased WFH it will make public transport more bareable for those poor sods that have to commute. 

Sadly not, as services are just scaled back to save money to the point where they are packed again

On 10/10/2021 at 13:21, iamnumerate said:

Apparently WFH is causing problems in the civil service - but of course they might be a special case.

What problems?  Several of my family are WFH civil servants and don't seem to be having issues?

[Huggy]

44 minutes ago, hotblack42 said:

Isn't the DM read mainly by the retired?

Why would anyone feel entitled to dictate terms they themselves are not affected by?

Are they ordering their kids & grandkids back to the office to set an example?

Some people seem to have no problem with subjecting others, at least those not genetically or socially linked to them, at risk, and seem unconcerned about them wasting time & money.

That's not very nice, is it?

Oldies 'think' they know what's best for others, and will let you know whether you invite them or not. I *know* what's best for me, hence 1 day a fortnight in the office (hopefully)!

[Pop321]

2 hours ago, hotblack42 said:

Isn't the DM read mainly by the retired?

Why would anyone feel entitled to dictate terms they themselves are not affected by?

Are they ordering their kids & grandkids back to the office to set an example?

Some people seem to have no problem with subjecting others, at least those not genetically or socially linked to them, at risk, and seem unconcerned about them wasting time & money.

That's not very nice, is it?

Bear in mind the sacrifice made by the 16/30 year olds who were less impacted by covid deaths….to protect retirees there sometimes does feel to be a lack of gratitude. I agreed with lockdown…so should position that though.

One thing I didn’t find very nice was the change in actions and attitudes once vaccinations were done.

When I do go to the shops i am alarmed how young and old seem to not much care for others as they cough and splutter round the aisles without a mask. I still take some care because I visit my old mum regularly so perhaps notice it more than average.

I jog down a walking path (wide enough for 2/3 people astride) through the countryside and almost without exception oldies will not step slightly aside (ie to their side) as I go by ie they stay walking 2/3 abreast whereas pre vaccination they did.

I always ensure if I need to move from the path into the mud to splash as much as possible….it’s a sad little victory. I am a loser.🤦🏻‍♂️

[scottbeard]

22 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

When I do go to the shops i am alarmed how young and old seem to not much care for others as they cough and splutter round the aisles without a mask. I still take some care because I visit my old mum regularly so perhaps notice it more than average.

I have to say I hate mask wearing with a passion.  COVID is here forever and we just need to get back to normality ASAP.  I  usually only wear a mask where required by law, so generally not in most shops.

However...

Coughing and sneezing into the open air is, and always has been, just rude and inconsiderate.   And hopefully people are beginning to learn that if you are ill it's better for everyone else to just stay at home.  Between WFH and internet shopping there isn't much excuse any more.

[robson1111]

1 hour ago, Pop321 said:

Bear in mind the sacrifice made by the 16/30 year olds who were less impacted by covid deaths….to protect retirees there sometimes does feel to be a lack of gratitude.

I followed the rules.

I do not think staying at home and not being able to go out to help to avoid my older family members and those of other people's families getting ill or dying a huge  sacrifice for which others should be eternally grateful.

it is just what I do.

I had a TV radio beer food books etc - it was not a big deal

 

[Pop321]

35 minutes ago, robson1111 said:

I followed the rules.

I do not think staying at home and not being able to go out to help to avoid my older family members and those of other people's families getting ill or dying a huge  sacrifice for which others should be eternally grateful.

it is just what I do.

I had a TV radio beer food books etc - it was not a big deal

 

I did say I supported lockdown, particularly at the time.

It wasn’t a huge deal but neither is allowing the workforce to work from home (per the Telegraph’s alarmist headlines) ….that was the context.😉 

[hotblack42]

2 hours ago, Pop321 said:

I jog down a walking path (wide enough for 2/3 people astride) through the countryside and almost without exception oldies will not step slightly aside (ie to their side) as I go by

Run straight at them - I do that, but slow down to give them plenty of time to perceive your approach.  Lots of flabby retired London working class & gammons in the part of the Sussex Coast I frolick on.  Running is completely out of their consciousness.  Many seem to perceive runners as unusual, mildly annoying and a bit retarded.

I do enjoy running alongside their funeral corteges..😄

[Ignorantbliss]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/wfh-civil-servants-want-to-save-on-lunch-and-fares-says-minister

Quote

Ministers are growing increasingly frustrated over civil servants not returning to offices with some believed to be reluctant to fork out for their “lunch and train fares”.

 

[Badhairday]

1 hour ago, robson1111 said:

I followed the rules.

I do not think staying at home and not being able to go out to help to avoid my older family members and those of other people's families getting ill or dying a huge  sacrifice for which others should be eternally grateful.

it is just what I do.

I had a TV radio beer food books etc - it was not a big deal

 

I had a nephew forking out for an expensive MBA who was forced to do the course online, thereby missing an integral point of the MBA (contacts!). I have a neice who is deafened by the sound of her biological clock ticking away. Finally, she had just finished uni and was looking forward to socialising... 

I ask you now, would you give up your University years so that you could live 2 or 3 years longer in  your 80's?

[telespy]

Quote

In every job he has ever had, Gavin has shirked. When he worked in a call centre, he would mute the phone, rather than answer it. When he worked in a pub, he would sneak out of the building and go to another pub nearby, for a pint. His best-ever job was as a civil servant. He would take an hour for breakfast, and two for lunch. No one ever said anything. All his colleagues were at it, too.

When the pandemic began, Gavin, now working as a software engineer, realised, to his inexhaustible joy, that he could get away with doing less work than he had ever dreamed of, from the comfort of his home. He would start at 8.30am and clock off about 11am. To stop his laptop from going into sleep mode – lest his employers check it for activity – Gavin played a 10-hour YouTube video of a black screen.

 

One might reasonably describe Gavin (not his real name) as a deadbeat. In economic terms, he is a unit of negative output. In moral terms, he is to be despised; there are antonyms for the word “grafter”, and none of them are good. In religious terms – well, few gods would smile on such indolence. But that is not how Gavin views things. “I work to pay my bills and keep a roof over my head,” he says. “I don’t see any value or purpose in work. Zero. None whatsoever.”

Gavin’s job is an unfortunate expediency that facilitates his enjoyment of the one thing that does matter to him in life: his time. “Life is short,” Gavin tells me. “I want to enjoy the time I have. We are not here for a long time. We are here for a good time.” And for now, Gavin is living the good life. He’s a time millionaire. “I am delighted,” Gavin tells me. “I could not be happier.” He is practically singing.

And his boss? “My boss is happy with the work I’m doing,” he says. “Or more accurately, the work he thinks I’m doing.”

From https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/12/time-millionaires-meet-the-people-pursuing-the-pleasure-of-leisure